but what is the point in doing anything for the sake of it. Why not find joy in it even just selfishly at first

The point, I assume, is for Luther to improve how he interacts with various girls.

I agree, find joy in this.

Agreed. I have a friend who went for the kiss about 10 times on a single date before finally getting it, and he got laid that day. Interesting what you say about not kissing them in the venue though. Perhaps going for it early can seem a bit eager/needy, especially if you're thinking about going for it all the time, because it means you're going into your head alot. Again- two paradoxical ideas- going late can seem indecisive and display lack of confidence, whereas going early can seem needy.

I guess it comes down to that natural instinct like you said. You do it when the time is right, not a moment sooner or a moment later and don't worry about it beforehand. But again, getting in touch with that natural instinct is something you have to work at, you have to cleanse yourself of all the inner bullshit that messes up your natural game.

Thanks for the advice guys, I agree quality over quantity, if you're just going around approaching but not trying to continue the interaction that's just choding yourself out of possible success, and pretty much defeats the point of making the approach in the first place. The idea of ploughing and going down like a fighter jet is hard to take, but you're more likely to learn if you go as far as you can and get shot down than if you quit when it's easy to quit. Massive failure = massive success, as long as you learn from each failure and avoid making the same mistakes.

I'm becoming more aware of my mistakes now especially through writing these things down- more kino needed, more ploughing, and I need to work on my state. Really intrigued by the whole state thing, in a way it's the most important life skill, if you're happy then you've cracked it I guess. Thanks for feedback guys, much appreciated, I'll let you all know how it goes!

- Luth x

Yeah you can keep trying. If she's still there then she's still interested as you said earlier.

Couple of interesting points to add on what I said about not kissing. From what I remember of one time, the woman said to me "I'm going home with you tonight". I replied "I'm actually more interested in your friend but as she's with someone I'll just finish this drink and then I'm going home...alone". Definitely not needy. She was all over me after that but I still didn't kiss her.

Another one was where the girl was dancing in front of me in a bar. She looked around a couple of times and made eye contact, smiled, then she started backing up until her butt was a few inches away from my groin. I let this go on for a bit then put my hands on her hips and pulled her in. She put her hand around on my ass so we both knew it was on from then. Both in state.

I didn't approach either of these women. It was just chance / luck. I suppose I did well in taking the opportunity and closing both times though. There was another time I had a ONS but I was so pissed I can't remember. Just woke up next to a woman in my bed next morning.

I think a key thing about state and all that is just let things happen. Your brain has the map for this built in (I've done it when I was too drunk to think). "Don't get in your own way" as Tyler puts it. I think that's a great way to think of it.

And have fun, entertain yourself.

I think you should go out on the pull. Or set yourself just one singular goal.

Are you trying to have a rational discussion with Nova?

Hey all, didn't have the best night tonight. I suspect that going out for the fourth time in five days is perhaps a little overkill. I would give it a break, except tomorrow I'm going back to the NL and having a party there with one of the girls from my last holiday there. She's really into me and definitely wants me as a boyfriend even though we live in different countries. Looking forward to having sex again, it's been a month at least. Although spending the night with the one girl might get a little boring. The other girl from my last holiday also cant wait to see me again, even though she has a boyfriend... she is a naughty girl, what can I say. But she's very good.

Anyway, tonight was spent sober as usual and mostly out of state. I suspect having a wing would make things much more enjoyable as it's difficult not having anyone to bounce back to after a while. I didn't try the claw.. need to work on that one.

I think I'm learning that to be good at clubbing you really have to change your entire self and the way you see the world. You have to become good at being self-amused and not taking yourself too seriously. It's very difficult- not impossible, but difficult- to "snap out" of your normal way of being and suddenly become that fun guy who pulls girls on the dancefloor.

It's also really interesting to observe all the chode behaviours of most guys on the dancefloor. The most common one, which I'm sure EVERYONE is guilty of at some point, is simply dancing near, or behind a girl and trying (usually failing) to make some kind of contact with her, then looking away from her or looking hazily into the distance as if you're not actually trying to initiate contact. Sometimes people (and I am very guilty of this) will just stand there dancing NEAR TO but not WITH the girl for absolutely ages. Which is essentially lame and very unattractive. She KNOWS you're standing there for a reason. A girl wants a guy who fearlessly goes for what he wants. Decisiveness.

I did see a very cool move though. I'm going to call it the "hand bite" opener. Not surprisingly, it involves biting the girls hand. What you do is you hi 5 her, then grab her hand as if you're going to kiss it but you bite it instead, and dance with part of her hand in your mouth, bobbing your head and suchlike. When I saw this happen the girl actually bit his hand back and followed him around for the rest of the night!

Anyway, I'll let you guys know how tomorrow goes. Although if it doesn't end in sex I'll almost definitely run away from this forum forever and become a pua hermit. Peace guys.

- Luth x

You did good putting yourself out there dude on these nights. A wing would have helped.

I think Tyler, or was it Jeffie, put it something like "a night club is an assault on the senses, nothing in a club is real, it's designed to disorientate you".

Remember that these guys were going out 7 nights a week for a long time to get comfortable in that environment. Progressive desensitisation. What is encouraging is they started out just ordinary guys and ended up living in abundance. Most of us can't make this our full time jobs but at least we're making the effort trying to get beyond the type of chodey behaviour you pointed out in your post.

We can recognise now the difference between what is cool and what is going to repel girls.

Hi Luther

Is there any particular reason that you are out solo and sober?