I got turned onto Red Pill stuff after watching Nick Krauser on London Real a couple years ago. I spent some time reading the various manosphere blogs by RP guys like Roissy, The Rawness, Yohami and Rollo Tomassi to name a few. This then led onto reading a lot of masculine psychology books by guys like Robert Bly, Sam Keen, Moore & Gillette.

For me this stuff made the most sense. I don't think you can call it the bastard child of pick up since a lot of the stuff was around either before or at the inception of pick up. I'm interested to know what gave you that opinion?

I do agree that on something like the Red Pill subreddit a lot of the users espouse something that could be conceived as a bastardization of PU and a misunderstanding of positive masculinity which often comes across misogynist rantings.

I do believe that modern western society is becoming increasingly feminized and that men today are a shadow of what they were 100 years ago and that the Red Pill provides a positive compass towards what I believe are correct gender roles. If it is a fad as you say then it'l be very interesting to see what concept comes after. Either we'l all hit super saiyan levels of uber masculinity or we'l regress further and will be facing the social collapse of western civilization.

I agree in so much as that is what an extreme example consists of. I can attest it is a real thing as I've seen examples of this myself. That being said the extremes of any ideology is inherently negative. I would also add that the people predisposed to gravitating towards to extremes of a spectrum often have a lot of underlying shit going on and any ideology is often just the catalyst for them.

For me personally I'm reminded of the Bruce Lee quote;
“Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.”

As with many things its a case of separating the wheat from the chaff. So long as you can think for your self and adopt a questioning mind instead of agreeing entirely with something you like the sound of you can avoid the pitfalls you described above.

Perhaps your right but be careful what you wish for.

I discovered Tomassi's blog a while ago. For me it is quite an interesting read. I do believe that we are living in a female centric society, masculinism may help us stay close to our roots of masculine males. However, I also believe there isn't a clear definition to it, I for one started reading it to give myself an idea of it and to eventually replicate it in my own way. Since my excitement phase I haven't really bothered and believe I will just find my way (either that or I'm lazy) and everything will eventually fix itself.

I read NMMNG and it literally blew me to bits; I can relate a lot to it, at times it felt like the book was written personally for me. There's a big theme on abandonment which i can't relate to - but the parts on toxic/sexual shame and lack of a masculine father figure and being too close to your Mother? Pretty much sums me up and a lot of things make sense to me now. I just read the theory and skipped the exercises, but I've signed up to Dr. Glovers forum and I'm going to go back through it and do the exercises. I've also started reading models and I really like the overall theme of vulnerability and honesty..

And finally, reading the Rawness letters article (the one thats about 5 pages long) you recommended on my main opening post on here is also on my to do list as its come up elsewhere in other stuff I've read, just not got round to it yet.

Would be very interested to hear your thoughts once you've read that dude.

For me the Rawness article was my first introduction to the concept of codependents and narcissists/histrionics. I saw a lot of myself in that young mans letter. Parts of it hit me like a punch in the chest. For me its one of the most important things I have ever read. The chain of events that happened subsequently after reading that piece were life changing.

Thanks Phenom, I'll look into getting Rollo Tomassi - The Rational Male.

I much prefer audio books, since I can listen to them for a good 2 hours a day when walking my dogs. Just had a skimmer through torrents and can't find any audio versions so, paperback it is.


I'm not sure if I haven't had any issues raised in No More Mr Nice Guy, I've had relationships, they've ended, I will likely assume that I do have some of the issues raised, just not to a similar scale as to the book shows. 1 major feeling was that everything seemed to be coming from the point of the relationship is in place and basically, how to help people not mess the relationship up. Whereas, I'm single and felt a lack of connection from this book due to the fact that it was coming from an angle of a relationship had already formed. Though this wasn't the only factor. My relationships have been healthy in the long run. I don't feel like many of the issues raised relate to me but, some would also counteract that by saying it's denial.

I simply don't know. But one thing is for sure, I've changed a lot of myself this last year, including the way I act around people so in some ways, what I was like in my past relationships should be thrown out the window. I've changed too much as to rely on evaluations from relationships that finished nearly 2 years ago. Once I'm in another relationship, maybe it'd be wise to re-read No More Mr Nice Guy again.

There are some YouTube excerpt's from the book but there a bit all over the place. Some of them also have weird feel good music in the background along with a cheesy American accent which puts me off. I think its a much better experience the read the book.




I see what your saying man. Like I said in one of the earlier post's in this thread the book isn't PU specific its more a Psychology/Self Help book for people who have had 'Nice Guy Syndrome' as Dr Glover describes it. I was one of those people both in and out of relationships so I found the book very useful for helping recognize why I was like this and how break the 'Nice Guy' cycle as a pose to 'helping not mess a relationship up'. If you don't feel like many of the issues relate to you then that's very cool man. I certainly wouldn't say it's denial, maybe your just being overly critical of yourself and looking for something that's not there.

When something get's lauded on a forum or gets a bunch of 5 star ratings on Amazon its easy to think there must be something wrong with you if it's message doesn't hit home the same way as it might have done with others. Thing is were all on different journeys and are at different stages of said journeys. We've all grown up in different parts of the world with different friends and family and experiences. What works for me won't necessarily work for you. Different strokes and all that.

Whats cool is that you had the open mindedness to read it and make your own judgement's from that. This mindset is what will help you learn and grow long term. You said yourself how much you've changed in the past year, I don't doubt that change has in part come from the open mindedness to read about new ideas, challenge old thought processes and go out and learn from new experiences.