So I met this girl through online dating and we're going on our fourth date tonight. We get along well and she is chatty, confident and hot. But after three dates we still haven't even kissed.

I realise the importance of kino and building this up in readiness, but she hasn’t been responsive to my touching of her hair and hands in conversation. She doesn't flinch or move away, she just doesn't respond at all as if it's not happening.

On the third date I was dropping her off at hers when she pre-empted any attempt at a goodnight kiss before I even stopped the car by saying her last two relationships were best friends first and she isn’t used to dating like this. She said she’d be more comfortable if we took it slowly and got to know each other a lot better, and she was keen to see me again (seeing her tonight).

Since then I’ve called and we’ve chatted on the phone, I’ve texted a couple of times and she responds – but 24 hours later usually.

So I’m worried about being a mug here and getting into the friendszone. I could already be at the point of no return. I do need at some point to push harder on the kino and try for the kiss – to make my intentions clear – but how soon do I do that having said yes I understand and I’ll take it slow, without scaring her off. And how do I manage this situation?

My usual style would be very AFC – I would take it slowly and keep seeing her as a friend, until she meets another guy who isn’t such a chump and takes what he wants and she dumps me. I don’t want this to happen, I need to grow and be more of a man. Just some guidance would be useful.

It all boils down to what you want.. What is your ideal " End Game "

Ive been in the following 2 scenarios

1.) I get chatting to a girl... I get her number and arrange a meet..all I want to do is fuck her. I spend the night thinking of " Logistics " etc...very sad times

2.) I meet another girl who I genuinely enjoy talking to and spend time with. Sex doesnt even come into my head that much and doesnt bother me if we dont have it ( even tho option 2 seems to always lead to sex sooner then option 1 ?!?!?! )



So it all depends on if you are chasing an outcome, if you are and that outcome is sex then its easier to just leave her

but if you genuinely enjoy spending time with her and not too fussed about sex yet, then take it slow... your not a mug if your doing what you truly want too!

PS The most amount of dates ive been on without sex is 3, we had sex on the 4th, so as long as she doesnt bring you into the 10's..you should be fine!

I agree that you have to do your thing. We all know the balance between friend's zone and not are down to you making it clear that you want more than that. How explicit you are is something I am struggling with at the moment as I do things I want, but then forget about the girl's comfort... not wise.

You say you are kinoing and she is not responding. To me that is positive! All girls who let me stroke their hair or allow me to leave my hand on her knee are comfortable with me doing so. Just keep pushing the envelope and see how she reacts. If it's neutral then great, don't necessarily look for positive reactions from her.

Just grab her & kiss her for fucks sake.

she is probably tellin her mates u might be gay, just kiss her, if she doesnt kiss u then u know the answer. This is about u and being scared to do somethin.

WOMEN WANT TO BE TAKEN CONTROL OF! grab her firm, push her against the wall & kiss her END OF STORY!

this is a win win situation, but u cant ask for it, you have to just be strong & take it.

4 dates? jesus, i would expect a girl to stop wanting to see me if we didn't kiss by the end of the first date.

Tru dat.

I'd be bored shitless after 3 dates coming up to a 4th.

You do the math.

ye listen to dan, he hates when guys dont kiss him by the 3rd date.

Sounds like you're really enjoying the company of the girls you're dating Dan.

Hahahaha. I bet this girl is bored despite saying "i want to wait forever & ever amen cos im a good girl & i used to read stories about princesses & thats why im pretending i dont have sex with guys".

Yeah. It just seems like a lifetime to go that long without making a move. I wouldn't wait that long

and...get more girls

You're all right really, I think the key learning for me is I need to 'push the envelope'. I kind of knew it already, but it helps to hear it from you guys and it is appreciated.

In answer to the question first two dates were drinks and last one was a meal. I certainly did not pay for her, I never do that on early dates as a rule. I just gave her a lift. I would prefer a little alcohol on a date to both loosen up but we don't live too close so one of us has to drive each time, and I can't make her drink if she doesn't want to.

Out of interest does anyone think the fact we are both in our early thirties makes a difference? Has anyone experienced that girls in their thirties need a slightly different approach in terms of making a move and timescales to those in their twenties in dating, or not at all?