I was thinking about this mainly because of 2 reasons:

The first and the most important is that imo there is an intrinsic problem with the PU artistry... maybe if it's name would be "self-improvement technique" and not related necessarily with women, it would have been better... but this... it implies no respect for women. It's basically an art of manipulation and deception. I am saying this because most of the things I've read about PUA says something like you shouldn't be bad to women and bla bla bla, but the simple fact that you are using those techniques is not fair for the girl, because she has no idea what you are doing. Therefore PUA is pure manipulation. The best PU artists should at least acknowledge this.

The second reason is that in true life there's nothing like a pure "black and white" situation. The truth is that most of the advices in PUA lead you to believe that you will be better than most of the other people, when in fact the best you can do is just to improve your chances.

The only good thing about it I suppose it would be the "inner game" which really improves your life and, as a consequence, also improves your relationships with women.

Just some thoughts...

Salve!

I am only starting out, and my infield experience is very minimal so far. But I have seen quite a few videos and read a few things around the subject of 'pick up'. And to me, it also seems that the techniques/methods can only get you so far in the pickup art.

Like anything in life, from speaking a language to picking up women - it is a skill that is either learned naturally at an early age or learned through a conscious effort. And the best way to becoming a 'natural' is by making this skill a part of who you are (developing your inner game) rather than just memorising a few lines and party tricks. Thus when you are having a conversation with a woman, your mind is not constantly thinking of what the next step or the next line should be - but instead you are fully focused on the moment and the woman is attracted to the qualities that you are naturally displaying as a man.

However, i still think that the 'method' approach is great for beginners like me because like any skill (kicking a football for example) you have to do hundreds upon hundreds of repetitions until you can get the desired outcome without thinking about where the ball is, how you position yourself above it, which part of the foot makes contact etc . . .

Maybe this was a bit off topic, but whatever

peeps are manipulative all the time they're just not concious of it. If I say to you I watched this amazing movie the other day it was awesome and you watch it I have manipulated you.

that's fine but if I knew the movie was shit and said that then that's just mean. so it's viewed badly because of how you view yourself. if you thought you were already worthy and these techniques got you what you deserve then you'd look at it differently.

there's an assumption that peeps using this don't deserve and that's why it's persieved as bad.

Social enhancement? I've found since getting into pick-up that yes my success with women has sky-rocketed but the main reason for this is because my social awareness, attitude and confidence with people as a whole hasimproved far more

Surely Guys in pick-up are manipulated more than women? the amount of guys who purchase e-books, dvds, boot-camps, etc. in the hope that they'll turn socially awkward, nervous guys into modern day latharios with just 1 read/visit/watch is crap. How many guys who've read the game and thought "I'm going to try this" actually go on to become successful at utilising it? I mean how many of the users who join this forum actually pursue it?

For me pick-up isnt about "how to pick-up" because as everybody says, canned material will only be affective some of the time (a bit like somebody choosing 7 when you ask them for a number between 1 and 10)
I like to think of it more as (how people socialize". You can see how socializing works, why it works and what feels good about it, similar as some people learn how to service a car, in some hands this information creates a death-trap when pursued, but in most cases creates a serviced car - with pick-up some people become arseholes but most of the people become well-grounded popular guys.

That said do you think it's any worse than the hoards of women who use the promise of sex to extract drinks, meals, holidays, etc out of guys?

For me it helped me realise that we are all equal in terms of looks, personality etc, it does however allow you to be better socially. However how many guys go out there to be stronger/faster/better looking than others? This is just another way social status is measured, your girlfriend.

Thats personally how i find pick-up but for me it's all about the driver (person) but not the car (PU)

Purchase????? Name me one person who actually bought Tyler's 20 hours of pish.

RSD's $3million turnover in 2008 begs to differ with you.

Poindexter you are such a dick sometimes nobody disputes the oll snake salesmen are not making money but once a DVD gets released where does it end up? The same with an ebook. Why don't you WIKI that one or maybe use your fucking brain instead of wiki for change.

Inc 500 actually, not wiki.

Real Social Dynamics -- Consumer Products & Services

Why do you care so much Knave? You feel the need to attack me in almost every single thread I post in despite getting no reaction or response from me nor anyone else. All you do is repeatedly show just how immature you are, something I don't even need to point out as everyone on this forum with half a brain has already decided for themselves.

Everything I do has absolutely no effect on you and is generally not directed at you whatsoever, so why do you care? How can me making a perfectly innocent post anger you so much?

Because you paint such a fucking big target on yourself somedays and what can I say I'm immature and nobody ever thanks me for posting.

For the record, I don't just attack you sometimes I thank you because occasionally you post some cracking good stuff and I have been known to defend you, more recently when phil was having a pop at you.

Don't be so sensitive.

You know exactly what I was trying to say in my post unless I've given you more credit inteligence wise than you deserve yet you chose to reply with some consending facts and figures.