Hi Guys,

Just interested in your thought's really on something. This is either something i read or chatted to someone about but can't remember where.

So when your opening there's the low risk, low reward type opener, Let's say any opinion opener, general indirect type stuff. You can go in, have a chat and the vast majority of the time not get blown out. Infact i've never been blown out yet doing any of this, yes i've had the odd interaction that's been very cold, but most of the time they've been very plesent. obviously, there's a bit of work or what ever you want to call it, to get a number or more off the back of it.

then there's the high risk, high reward type opener, direct tim style "i thought you were cute i just had to meet you", or the annihilation one, which i've never tried, but it's obviously a quicker way to closing as your cards are on the table from the get go.

Don't think i've ever been around anyone when they have tried the latter and i certinally would love to see it done. I'm sure internal frame plays an hugh part in it and i don't think i'm there yet But i'm wondering from your experiences what your perferd ways are. What do you think works best and your general thoughts, feelings and advice on it.

Cheers

Retro

Retro

I completely understant where your coming but let me lay something across your path if i can .

Opener is a very vague word these days in terms of SA . You speak about low risk , low reward and vice versa but i think you've got it alittle backwards .
An opener so to speak is simply a means to an end ... the end being just to enter into conversation full stop . The rest is up to you to be awsome and bring whoever you want into realisation of this !
So to say that using a risky opener such as 'Apocalypse' or insanely direct would have higher reward than just to ask an opinion is moot . To say 'use this opener and you will have more sucess than if you were to use this one' is as you would agree , is ludicrous on a macavelian scale'

Women may come to the realisation that your an amazingly funny confident guy quicker if you said one thing over another but the goal is clear ... Your fucking awsome and they will realise it anyway .

Dont be thinking , which magical opener will give me sucess faster . Think more , how fun and adventurous am i feeling with this lady ?

I could open using *cringe* dental floss and then 2 minutes later tell a girl she is in serious danger of being punished right here in the middle of the club ...
Or i could say 'Your coming home with me' and then two minutes later be asking her 'what do you do for a living'

It's not what you say , it's what you convey

Convey insane sexual intent regardless of what words come out of your mouth

P.s im not badmouthing any openers or apocalyspe or cyclone cos they are all fun as hell , this is just my thought process

Swype

Just a quick one - are we talking one night stands, or the escalation on days two and onwards?... I get the impression that not many women will go for sex on the first night - the last number of women I've seen have never had a one night stand.

(haha, I hope they are not just saying this!)

Seriously, Is it not a certain type of girls who do this stuff a lot?... If so, by doing this, they are less desirable in my eyes (as you’d know, evolution explains why)

Anthony

No worries bud

I spent a good 3 hours with marc last sat explaining this . Alot of the Manc guys are all now at the stage where they can open set and have conversations and this is great but most guys hit a 'stumbling block' when it comes to taking it further . As Sapmi said , if a set is going well he doesn't want to ruin it by being sexual ....... Then why the hell are you talking to them .

When i say 'convey massive sexual intent regardless of what words come out of your mouth' what i mean is that when speaking to someone , words mean less than you think !

What speaks volumes is your tone and your body language and your eyes and lips . We have all these great tools at our disposal and they are often forgotten and we fall back on words .

Here are some basics but they are useful as hell and staple to showing her your a sexual person .

-That lingering gaze that last just alittle longer than it should
-When they are talking stare at their lips alittle longer than your comfortable with (trust me this is easily noticable and she will pick up on this)
-Touching your lips (when she's speaking and im nodding ill sometimes just lightly touch my lips)
-A wink if in a crowd of girls or afew people in the set (for gods sake not a cheesy wink , if you can't wink dont try but if you can just a little wink and a smile that no-one else notices and it;s between you and her)
-Touching her hands (this is gold for me but has to be used with confidence)
While we're speaking and just chatting away ill gently grab one of her hands of fingers and play with it , stroke it , interlock fingers all the while looking at her and still listening or chatting away.
There are so many little things that we can do but hopefully they give you an idea of the point im making .

Keep in mind all these needs to come from the core . Don't be performing them as moves , do them as you are sexual and this is what you want and they will come across , confident and graceful .

Those are just natural to me and im sure everybody has their own but these are poweful ways to show intent without saying anything remotely sexual .

I hope that clears it up alittle

Swype

Cool – I’ll check out more of the Jonny stuff too.
For evolutionary reasons, men are attracted to less promiscuous women. Past performance determines (in part) future performance. Look at it from an evolutionary point of view – would I want a reproductive partner who is liable to go off for a one-night stand?.. No!

Also, women do want to choose the most genetically viable male – but they also want to choose one who is likely to kick around – ie, provide critical parental care. If you convey those characteristics on a one night stand then this can make things easier.
(To be honest, modern contraception confuses all this.)

Anyways, back to Retro’s thread – I like what I’m hearing about openers – would be cool to see yours and Swype’s openers in the field some time. Some of my openers are a bit awkward – and success happens in spite of them. Perhaps time to consider a more congruent opener with my personality. I do go for natural openers, and I’ve started to get the cheesy stuff out of my game a little, but got a long way to go. When I go for an opener, I shouldn’t be cringing inside!!

Turning into quite a good topic this.. glad i thought about it :-)

Anyway just for a little clarification round the question then. So when i mean risk v's reward, the risk is being told to "fuck off" or blown out, or however you want to word it. Your either going to get blown out from minute 1 (ultra direct opener), 5 to 15 minutes down when you ask for a number if you've gone indirect, a day later if you've called for a day one etc etc. OR you f close, either after a minute of talking and taking her back to your place that night or 2 or 3 dates down the line. or anything in between the two.

You are very much less likley to get told to fuck off if you start and indirect opener ("hey hows it going") and when you ask for her number and you don't get it, it will be a nicer no or a wrong number than an imediate get lost (prased one way or another).

so low risk:

PUA: Hey
HB: hi
PUA: hows you night going
HB: just here with friends
etc etc

Low reward out of the back of it as you may get a number, you may get nothing but you've been plesent. If you get a number you've got to do the follow up calls, then the day one and risk a flake, then it may roll into a day two etc etc Lots of time gone, there for rate of return is low (low reward).

High risk:

PUA:"your coming back to mine tonight"
HB: "fuck off" or something else.

So your going to feel a bit shit off the back of it, she's probably been a little embarrased if she with her mates, or offended. On the flip side, you get round a hell of a lot more women than chatting for 20 minutes with one and you've stated that she's comeing home with you, if she says yes, its on, and job done that night. High reward.

Plus then i guess from the above you've got the slut v's whore bit that K and Anthony have gone into. The 1st girl being the whore and the latter bing the slut.. maybe - comment?

Hey i'm still learning and it's baby steps for me. The main point was to get me opening, then staying in the conversation, now escallation, then closing. We all have different styles of opening, some use the shitty dental floss, some use other opinion openers, some use Hi, i'm hoping there are people on here that purely use the tim's "hey i thought you were cute and had to meet you" and some may mix it up a bit and use all the above.

I'm interested to know who does what and why?

Retro

I used the direct opener to build my confidence. I was never told to fuck off..the classic bitch shield was I had a boyfriend...but I wasnt interested with the shields, I was more interested in helping me with my confidence...im sure you read the link below, if not, check it out.
Much Success!!

http://www.puaforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=347

hadn't seen that before man, that's cool. Will have to try that one night this weekend.

Cheers

Retro

Very interesting!!!

This is a very confusing but fascinating area - perhaps it should move to its own thread?

I'm not sure about the conclusion you drew - I haven't read the follow-up research - but I will check out the research in this area and let you know what I find out. If you have any reviews on this, please send them over.

I would imagine that - much like the BBC article - there is still much debate in this area (“…probably lost in today's social context”).

From what I gather, most women do not cheat.

paragraph 2:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...13641677/pg_4/

One article I looked at suggested that when women are looking for a short-term fling, they go for a 'breeder' about 60% of the time - this is not a massively convincing majority in my opinion.
http://www.umich.edu/news/index.html.../Oct03/r102203

(the actual reference - http://www.springerlink.com/content/kr0akkp6la062ywc )

Any thoughts?...

I've gotta say anthony, you would be suprised on the subject of girls cheating. Beleive me, they will if they want to. Even those who you don't expect, yes those too! Speaking from personal experience here, they are almost as bad as us men. Look up Style's boyfriend destroyer technique, a supposingly sound method of successfully gaming those girls with boyfriends, though i haven't tried it myself, a PUA friend of mine swears by it.

My personal opinion on it anyway anthony,

Ritz