How to be a moral pick up artist - Page 4 - PUA Forums - The UK's Leading Pick-up Artist Forum

Retro · 10-03-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowalski

Accept you are in the presence of an expert in the field and go do something more constructive with your time. Like getting all bald in the nuts.

I do accept that i am in the presence of someone far more learned and well read in the filed of philosophy then i would ever want to be, and would never dispute that...

But like wise you are disputing Morality from a philosophical point of view. The topic can be view and discussed from any angle, both logical, religious or other. From your stand point you may be right, but if you had someone representing a faith they would have theirs, and to them they would be right also.

So what is it meant to be moral then? everyone views on this is different. Its no different then asking what does it mean to be good? how can you differentiate good from evil? these are huge open ended questions.

I have aired my view on what i think is moral, and you are entitled to your views also, just because we don't agree doesn't mean neither of us are wrong or right.

Retro

Retro · 10-03-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowalski

Furthermore, you've still not addressed my arguments nor read the work I referenced.

I would say equally you've not actually addressed any of mine either.

Morally, Al Capone said he was a good moral person when he was arrested despite all the things he had done. Do you think Lee harvey oswarld sat there in that book store thinking he was a bad person just before he shot JFK, NO! do i need to quote Hitler in WW2 or apartheid in South Africa.

Everyone perspective of morality is different, it varies because of belief's, up bringing, social pressures etc. Even the dictionaries definition of moral is about as open ended as it could possibly be, there for there cannot be only one answer!, but no doubt a lot of common ground on everyone's own person definition of moral.

And i'll leave this topic on a food for thought question... if there is no God, what's actually the point in being moral?

Retro · 11-03-2010, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowalski

You are a muppet. You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Just repeating something over and over doesn't make it any truer than it was the first time.

Peace,

kowalski

Eerrrr the phrase about klthe kettle and pots springs to mind! Plus I don't need to resort to personnaly attacking somone to make my point across. I can quote examples between now and Xmas showing that someones morals cannot be defined and put in a box. You on the other hand keep deflecting, giving politions answers and resort to personaly attacking me. There are ways of making a point and that is not it.

Tom · 11-03-2010, 08:53 AM

Whoah! This heated up quickly

I think what K is getting at is that he dismissed your argument of 'do unto others' but you never addressed that and just restated it and introduced further questions then expected answers without first addressing the criticism of 'do unto others'. You've been playing the questions improv game too much

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowalski

I have not used the 'do unto others ...' rule anywhere in my argument because I don't agree with it. I might like a good slap on the bollocks everytime I see my friend, my friend may not like me to do that in return. So it should be stated more like 'Within a broader moral and legal framework, and taking into account available resources and level of responsibility, and the wishes of all involved and society as a whole, where relevant, do unto others as they would have you do unto them'.

Look at how unruly that simple rule becomes as soon it is examined. So now we have all these conditions and caveats, and there's probably more I just came up with those stream-of-consciousness stylee, and they all need weighted values applied to them considering both the present and all possible futures. Even if we could agree on values the calculations would be vast and far beyond the brain's capacity to do 'on the fly', and suddenly every action and inaction becomes a moral one. This is the nightmare you end up in when you start with a quite appealing, simple looking, utilitarian-esque ethical principle.

I didn't use that argument, nor would I for those reasons (and some other more technical reasons too).

My argument is more like if you think something is wrong don't do it, don't associate with people who do it and don't assist anyone to do it. Which is quite different.

Retro · 11-03-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

Whoah! This heated up quickly

I think what K is getting at is that he dismissed your argument of 'do unto others' but you never addressed that and just restated it and introduced further questions then expected answers without first addressing the criticism of 'do unto others'. You've been playing the questions improv game too much

I appreciate your input Tom on trying to bring some clarity on the current direction of the thread

I thought i answered this by saying that my moral standpoint was "do unto others".. and proceeded to then say that there cannot be a right or wrong answer for what is moral as it is subjective, open ended, varies on culture, social pressure, upbringing and loads of other factors.

If that didn't come across as clear then i will hold my hand up and apologies for that.

Retro

Summer Junky · 11-03-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthony

i
The first thing I'd suggest is not be a pick up artist. This community is generally linear and a bit lame. Get what you can from it and move on!!

Yeah I really don't see myself as a pick up artist I assure you. I just thought the title went with the subject.

Not sure I totally agree on this community being 'lame' however. It's like anything, it's what you make of it. Yeah sure if you're out trying all the new tactics for the rest of your days in order to get laid then this is a pretty sad state of affairs, but the growth you can get from helping out other people that had the same problems as you is pretty immense, I have found anyway. I feel like a owe a lot to this community, and fully intend on paying it back!

Tom · 11-03-2010, 02:19 PM

I think the key to being a moral pick up artist is to be truthful and spell out exactly what you want. You can be a pretty good person but not make your intentions clear and end up hurting someone even though you didn't mean to because of shyness or not being confident enough to tell them how you feel.
Sure if you spell it out to them or ask them what they want out of your interaction you might not sleep with them but if you don't then you could be leading them on and end up hurting them.

Retro · 11-03-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowalski

That is two things side-stepping the argument and attacking a strawman.

My argument is that while morals are subjective and people and societies are inconsistent in their application and understanding of morality, ethics are founded on first principles. One such principle can be found in Davidson's work on Radical Interpretation which I have referenced repeatedly throughout this thread.

You are in effect arguing that because there are many differently coloured objects in the world there can be no universal theory of colour. You confuse peoples opinions with facts. People can be have whatever opinion they want, this is true. Most people's opinions are wrong, this is also true.

I'm sure the title of this thread was how to be a MORAL pua.. does not mention ethical anywhere in the subject. But again you have said "one" such principle, ergo there are others.

And on the colour subject, as you know, the ancient Greeks defined the sky as Bronze not blue as you and i refer to it as. In fact the definition of colour is just based on what your mum /dad/ teachers told you was fact.. you have just associated a word with some shade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowalski

So that is 'Do unto others ...' dealt with, again.

And you are taking this absolutely literally.. that being the case, are you compelled to "push" every door you see with "push" on it, or even us a calculator and do 8x8 and get answer low battery, does that make it the answer!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowalski

Any argument would have to be at least two pronged. One, to demonstrate a fatal flaw with Davidson's work on Radical Interpretation. And the other, to demonstrate either that 'Do unto others ...' need not reach crisis point or to start again with some other previously unconsidered paradigm.

However, it is absolutely essential before you put down the second prong of your argument that you first show how Davidson's paradigm is fatally flawed.

That limit lies at the point where someone utterly ignorant of the nature of philosophy and its scientific methods starts trying to tell me that I don't even know what philosophy is.

Peace,

kowalski

I don't need to/ have to / want to disprove someone's principals on morals, I accept and respect that peoples are different to my own (some radically), and until you can give me a clear definition of what is moral to set criteria, then you are the one being foolish saying that yours is the 'only' and 'correct' one.

Retro

Summer Junky · 11-03-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro

I'm sure the title of this thread was how to be a MORAL pua.. does not mention ethical anywhere in the subject.

I'll take responsibility for this one, although it is my thread so nana

Summer Junky · 11-03-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowalski

I accept cash, cheques and all major credit cards.

Ok how much is your ego worth?