So, to quote Morpheus, I have had a “splinter in my mind” about something for a little while.

It seems to me that a large slice of personal development, is becoming aware of the fog of social conditioning that hangs around us, and developing the wisdom to decide which behaviours do and do not actually serve you.

However, when a bird behaves in such a way that is clearly a function of the feminine side of the coin of social conditioning, we immediately leap to judgement. We decide that she is either trying to demean our character or that she is objectively wrong. Rather than see what she's doing for what it really is, a conditioned behaviour that we've probably helped perpetuate in varying degrees, the "party line" is to either push her away or punish her.

I realise regressing to the chode route is no alternative, but something about the standard view doesn't seem good enough to me. I'm not convinced it's the direction we should ultimately be headed. In essence: how can we judge women for being subject to the same fog of conditioning that we ourselves are trying to extricate ourselves from?

So the question is, is there a further step, and if so, what is it?

PS

Luke 23:34 “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do"

Somewhat controversial but relevant.

Personally I feel that ignorance is not a factor that should absolve someone of their actions, it should however mitigate things. What is probably more important when judging a person on their actions is their intent, a person might use such conditioned behaviours because they have served them well and become habit, the question is whether there is malicious intent or not.

That at least is the way law looks at things.

I prefer the route of showing them where a trait I dislike comes from and why they've become conditioned into doing it. Some people will vehemently deny it and others will be a little more open minded. When a person agrees with where it comes from you can also call them out on it in future and never have to deal with it again. Generally in a fun and playful way of course.

ok so...social conditioning

your objective is to get a girl who is 99% likely to be a victim of social conditioning.
and you are fighting the notion of social conditioning - dont you think that you will appeal to her more if you follow and master social conditioning?

agreed, to an extent! carelessness resulting in ignorance is blameworthy tho, see below


FYI your talking about criminal law here, tbh its a high standard to judge against in this instance, u cant let people get away with being dumb just because they didnt have some sort of malicious intent to be dumb.... :S

for example judging by intent doesnt take into consideration carelessness or even negligence (civil law concepts). in civil law a person can be blameworthy if they have been careless or negligent in doing/not doing/realising something. the test to see if someone has been negligent is two pronged, it has an objective aspect to it and a subjective aspect to it. i wont digress into legal BS cos im on my lunch. ill post it when i get a chance, tis good to know


so, ye basically intent is not the be all and end all

Indeed, again though, there's a difference between wilful negligence and just ignorant negligence. Wilfully being negligent holding the higher penalties.

WHY WHY WHY special K?

I agree with you K boi

my point was.. as just 1 example everyone is social conditioned to desire to be a mensh health physique -- so if girls are conditioned to desire this and guys also-- why not pull this off.
why not have a flash car if you can.

if you are gonna be a fish with all the other fishes why not be the biggest one in the pond?

im throwing this out there!

Jay's got the general idea of what I'm on about.

I mean, it's pretty much doctrine not to take any shit from girls, we're all walking that path (occasionally I fall off I must admit!). But what if it's just conditioning driving her, not intent?

Mate of mine is an epic natural. He's a "trust fund" type, lazy, scruffy, but basically a good bloke. But there is no "us and them" mentality to him...girls play up and it's like he doesn't even notice it. Somehow this raises him and her up into some kind of "bullshit free zone" and girls fall for him right before my eyes, fast.

PS

A man without ego is an incredibly attractive thing. Anyone watch Fedora lose the tennis today? The man's humility and lack of any anger, ill will and the like are very attractive.

Being a nice person is a good thing, provided you are not also a weak person. You don't have to react to badly to all things, just the things that matter. If someone isn't intentionally trying to bring you down then it really shouldn't. It says a lot about a person if they feel they need to either be defensive or offensive in any male-female social interaction. Just have sincere interactions instead.

Comes down to the idea of transcending the need to care about or participate in social games altogether in my opinion.

Oh? What've you seen to think that? Interviews I've caught over the years have always made me think he's fairly genuine and just a pretty nice dude. What've you seen to contradict it?