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Refl3x · 30-03-2011, 06:47 PM

The Human race is an amazing species-- in our darkest hour is when we find our greatest glory.

Look at the technological advances during WW2 -- we wont run out of oil because the west will own most of it and we`ll all be using hydrogen powered everything along with nucelar power.

RLAJay · 30-03-2011, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craigus

Seconded - that way, having spent the best part of my formative years playing Resident Evil, it will all have been time well invested.
And tbh, there's about as much chance of a Zombie Apocalypse as there is a Mayan-predicted end of the world scenario.

However, if you really want to know how the end of the world -as we know it- will happen, then watch a documentary called 'Collapse' with Michael Ruppert - he's an investigative journalist along the lines of John Pilger. It's not one of these hokey made-for-youtube films - it's won awards and shit all over the place.

Essentially it's about Peak-Oil; the world's finite supplies of Fossil Fuels; and how it all links into the worlds economies - our reliance on oil extends beyond how we fill our cars up: oil is the base product of 99% of man-made materials - there is no replaceable alternative to oil. And we are running out of it at an alarming rate

Our world economy is inextricably linked with the price of oil, and for as long as oil prices go up, the more the economy will suffer. That's why we are in the longest running and deepest economic downturn in history - it's been almost 4 years now since the shit hit the fan!! And make no mistake - there will be no recovery!

Mike Ruppert predicted in the mid-90's that the world's economies would collapse - he also correctly predicts in the documentary about the unrest in the middle east, riots and unrest in greece, and even air-traffic controllers striking in Spain! (bear in mind, this was filmed late 2009, when Gaddafi was still considered by most as an adorable loon)

Watch it - it will open your eyes up to the real problems in the world rather than worrying about fairy-tale disaster stories.

The loss of oil won't be the end of the world. Innovation comes from need. When it genuinely becomes a major problem then we will solve it. Supply meets demand etc. It's the way it's always worked. Funding and research will go into something else when it becomes a need opposed to happening beforehand.

There'll be a rough few years in the interim period but it'll be fine. Lack of oil won't "end the world", merely change it.

chillem · 30-03-2011, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLAJay

The loss of oil won't be the end of the world. Innovation comes from need. When it genuinely becomes a major problem then we will solve it. Supply meets demand etc. It's the way it's always worked. Funding and research will go into something else when it becomes a need opposed to happening beforehand.

There'll be a rough few years in the interim period but it'll be fine. Lack of oil won't "end the world", merely change it.

cheap, usable power from nuclear fusion will come online before the oil runs out?

RLAJay · 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillem

cheap, usable power from nuclear fusion will come online before the oil runs out?

Fusion isn't needed at all. That's an outdated sci-fi dream and it's just not going to happen without a serious breakthrough, it could be around the corner or it could be 50 years.

Molten salt thorium reactors. It's everything we ever wanted from fusion at a fraction of the cost and the technology for it is available now. The only reason we don't move to it is because nobody has scaled it up yet because it's just not needed.

That said, there's wind and solar too and they're not going to run out any time soon. We already get a sizable amount of our power in the UK from wind farms. Typical arguments against wind or solar power are space which is pretty stupid: http://i.imgur.com/j9wrB.jpg

Oil running out won't be the end of humanity, we haven't been using it that long anyway. We lived for thousands of years without it and we'll continue to live without it when it's gone. We're far more resilient than you give us credit for.

We'll probably end up turning to natural gas first anyway... The US has enough natural gas reserve to power their entire country if EVERYTHING were converted to use it... For 60 years! Europe has enough for 50.

Craigus · 31-03-2011, 08:21 AM

RLAJay, I agree - running out of oil won't lead to 'the end of humanity' or 'the end of the world', but as mentioned in my post - it will lead to 'the end of the world as we know it'

Hydrogen, Wind, Solar, Gas, Nuclear energy - yes they are all suitable alternatives to Oil as an energy generating alternative, but there is no alternative to how we use Oil in 99% of the man-made products that we use and consume: Plastics, rubber, paints, lubricants, silicons, clothing & most importantly, fertilisers - all essential to manufacturing, food production, and commodities, which in turn is essential to the engine of our world's economy.

In essense, the point is not that the loss of Oil will send us back to the dark ages. But it will have a huge impact on our way of life as it currently is.

Worse case scenario: there will be wars, poverty, starvation, revolution not just in developing or middle eastern countries, but also in the western world.

Best case scenario: the world's economy will be so fucked that many countries currently considered 'developed' will fall back to being 2nd and 3rd world countries.

Much love,

Craigus

chillem · 31-03-2011, 09:21 AM

Jay, ITER - the way to new energy don't seem to think of fusion as an outdated sci-fi dream, altho yes it could well be 50 years before they've nailed it

thanks for the image regarding solar power. It reminded me of reading somewhere that it would be possible right now to build one big solar array in the Australian desert which could power the whole world, for less than is currently spent on searching for new oil fields.
Can't remember where I saw that, but I'll see if I can find it just to make sure my memory is not deceiving me

chillem · 31-03-2011, 09:26 AM

Craigus, that is a scary statistic that oil is used in 99% of man made products.
Do you have any links for further reading? genuinely interested

RLAJay · 31-03-2011, 09:47 AM

We've made leaps and bounds towards genetic manipulation lately and are now able to artificially create things such as ribosomes. What that effectively allows us to do is create bacterias that eat one thing as a fuel and create whatever we want them too. This has serious potential to end our oil problems for good.

Besides that, there are plant based oils that can be used for plastics, again though, the industry will have to grow up around the demand for it, we won't see it happen until there's a need.

The capitalist/commercial nature of our society allows us to progress at extremely fast rates but the downside is that unless there is money to be made things don't happen. To go a little off topic, it's the reason why space colonisation is just a pipe dream without some incredible scientific breakthrough, unless there's profit to be made it'll never happen. The best chance it has is if it turns out mining could turn profits, it's unlikely to happen though.

I just don't really see the human race dying out because of a resources issue. Alternatives will be found and if they can't be then life will change, something like that won't ever kill us though, we're far too adaptable.

31-03-2011, 11:30 AM

That fusion website is INSANE!!!!! Look at the specs of the machine

RLAJay · 31-03-2011, 11:52 AM

It's impressive but it doesn't work yet. The best fusion reaction to date has only achieved 70% of input power and the target is 1000% of input power - although once break even is met this should be pretty easy.

We just have to wait and see. The technology has had billions put into it by countries all over the world since the 50s, it'll be great when it happens because it'll be more or less limitless but there's no point in considering it as an alternative until they've figured out how to produce the reaction for more than 6 minutes