From yesterday's night out, I have decided to embrase natural game a lot more.
I am a pupil of the Mystery Method - like it or not I don't care, because I do and its worked for me.
Having said this, I'd be foolish to rule other aspects of PUA out, and so this is why I came to the decision to give natural game a real go.

I'm not completely abandoning routines, just trying to find the balance to see what works best for me.

The whole thing has gotten me thinking however; that the definition of natural game is very hazy. What do we define as natural game? If I approach a set natrually and it works..... I'll do the same next time! Thus creating a routine!

See the dilemma?

Ritz

An interesting dichotomy Ritzy! I think for a "true" natural, avoiding getting into routine becomes a subconscious thing. If, for example, a guy goes out and 90% of the time manages to pick up a girl, chances are he doesn't really know, specifically, how he's done it. Like you say, if he knows his own game, chances are he has his own routines and methods that work.
I think true naturals rely more on the values we try to attain - being utterly confident in your own ability to pick up girls and knowing that whatever you do and say is right as long as you do it with enough conviction and confidence.

The difference is, we know the theory of what works and what doesn't, so whilst the natural guy goes out and is almost relying on lady luck to do and say the right things, we can cut out the stuff we know doesn't work and get the target more efficiently.

Does this make us better than naturals? Potentially, but then whilst we're learning it from books and each other, naturals are learning all the time without even knowing it.

That's my two cents anyway, this from a guy who was, before my introduction to PUA, a natural at talking to women but not at picking them up.

Keep it real
Blanca

Interesting insight Blanca. Especially the part about the naturals who don't know PUA, of which we have all seen.
I'll just keep at it and see who subconcious my work can become!

Ritz

Yes natural game exists, my best nights are when I don't know what i've done to get the girl i've just gone with the flow and it's worked.


It's more about inner state than openers. There are natural openers but they are just examples of what people have come out with when they were in the right flow and worked so they're more like examples of the things people come out with off the top of their heads when they're in a good happy fun state.


For example I was out Saturday and I see this girl with blonde short curly hair. I say something along the lines of "you have awesome hair" because she had awesome hair and it was the first thing that came into my head, no preparation, just going with whatever.
It would not have worked if I had not been in a fun outgoing state or had hung around her but I wasn't even thinking about these things I analysed all this after because at the time I was not in my own head planning my moves, I saw I acted.


I've done it before when a girl had half an action man sprayed gold on a chain around her neck, I remember either pointing at it, saying something about it or picking it up but i'm not really sure how it went down it just did something but I was already in a good mood so it just flowed.


I tried canned openers but they've never worked for me. If you can get them to work then use them but I look at them as more of a safety net/training wheels until you have the confidence to just be yourself and act in the now.


I see canned stuff for people who see it as more of a process or want to break it down into a series of steps, which is fine it's what I do but my aim is to get away from this and not need to think "I should execute move A and then kino" I just do things and they work.


I know people will disagree with this and I respect that but this is how I feel about it and it works for me the problem is just getting to that state.

I think the canned openers/routines are great for when you're just starting out! It's a great feeling when you use them in the field and realise that they do actually work! and very effectively too when your in a decent mind state. I can't however seem to shake this feeling that i'm just another guy with a cheesy chat up line-which actually is my biggest fear! Especially after using them a couple of times. Its that voice in your head, (you know the one that you want to throw into the river full of sharks) that just keeps telling me 'oh no not this one again', and 'your starting to sound like a recorded message.' And along with that, theres the fact that you've got to remember all this shit! My memory is not the sharpest, and when i'm inside my head its non existent. So the way I see it at the moment, the tried and tested routines are a good way of getting yourself out in the field and talking with hot women, but, for me anyway, its only a matter of time i think before i'm gonna need something else to take it to the next level!

I do think routines or patterns will appear in one's memory/mindset where things worked successfully on girls before, i.e. you'll realise the subtleties that you if you act in a certain way (confident and not cowering away) girls are more receptive. These will generally probably be more subconscious though.

Every situation is different, and all girls are different. Being flexible with your game and letting things flow I'd say is the biggest strength you could harness. Like Tom says it's all about not thinking, not being aware in that moment. This is 'natural game' in my opinion.

Yeah I totally agree with what you are saying guys.
Tom, I know the feeling when (for me personally) you have opened a few sets and you are in the "zone." At this time, canned openers don't exist even for me - someone who based a lot of their game on this - as your confidence radiates and everyting you say/do seems to hook. I guess this is what is truely meant by natural game?

It is indeed a matter of me progressing to such a confidence level, that I do not need to warm up and I am always in this super-confident state. When I have acheived this.... I guess I will then become a true natural.

Safe

Ritz

Interesting topic ...

Basically it boils down to 'does natural game breed more sucess than scripted openers and routines' ?

What !?! You mean i can get girls by memorizing lines and routines !? But i can also get girls by being me ?! MADNESS !

Im what i like to call a Hybrid (or half breed haha)

Basically i have no preference over natural game or scripted . I was 'raised' so to speak on the first gen stuff such a MM , SS and the AM but have been massively influenced by natural game and inner game principles . This is what has given me that 'tight game' that you all speak about becuase i literally switch and change faster than you can see taking the girl all over the place . Maybe this comes from all the material i've internalised or maybe that i've been doing it for so long but either way .
I feel lucky to have experienced and learned from both schools of though and it has blessed me with alot of sucess .

So don't let other people push this method or that method onto you . Be open minded and try everything or you'll only limit yourself and your sucess . The community as a whole cannot dictate which method is more sucessful , only you can .

Persist
Perpetuate
Prevail

Swype

Swype- I guess what your saying is what works for you!! find your own way.

what works for someone else may not work for you.


sinstyle.

This reminds me of a kung fu film.
"Your canned fist is nothing compared to my natural tiger style!"
Queue Wu Tang track (or should that be Woo tang)

Swype's like an old master who has studied all the teachings