O.K, so I've been thinking about this quite a bit and I find that confidence pretty much outweighs everything when it comes to being good with girls. But to have true confidence you need to be be able to meet girls without the need for PUA materials, methods ect. Therefore it seems that PUA products are a paradox, by using them, thinking about them and wanting more info on them you are admitting to yourself you are not 100% confident, meaning they are not 100% effective(which suits them as they can sell more).
The other thing that strikes me is how close to hypnosis a lot of the products come, in terms of offering suggestive belief that it will work, which might give the confidence to make it self fulfilling, I think RSD is king of this. Anyway thoughts and opinions are welcome.

I'm not sure, there is a def a kernel of truth to it, bit of a mindfuck for a PU material junkie like me. Let me think...I mean a placebo works because the mind makes it real, but is essentially a passive thing in and of itself. PU material isn't a passive thing though in quite the same way, it can help you to understand your own behaviour and that of others, and make changes which then create the result. But is it the changes, or the confidence on those changes that are attractive? Dagnammit you've confused me!

PS

i think its a spot on point, but by which it drives people to become more confident so it helps the less confident, & fucks up the overtly confident

note on this aswell i do not own one peice of PU material.

nor do i read the shit... coz i dont need to!! im happy with how i do, and all the pua material does is hinder your thought.

Phil, what's your thoughts on NLP and that side of things?

But the articles section of this forum is stuffed full of pua material.

I would argue that making this admission is a huge step towards being a well rounded human being who makes good decisions.

We all have fears, issues, etc etc, every last one of us. I look around and see guys pretending they don't all the time and to someone who's socially savvy it's glaringly obvious that they're just covering up their flaws.

In my opinion part of having true confidence is having the ability to admit your flaws and wear them on your sleeve without fear of what people think. I'm flawed, I make mistakes, I'm not perfect, I also don't care what people think of my flaws though. I judge myself, living by your own judgement opposed to everybody else's is key to defining yourself as a truly confident person.

My brain appears to not be working properly right now, I'm not sure if I've articulate that very well, hopefully the message is understandable though.

I think Nlp works! I think you houl learn it so you use it unconsciously, u houldny be consciously tryin to hypnotise women into bed... Sayin that I have done it through curiosity So I can't judge

Just dont tell your date about it hey Phil

Although I’m not disagreeing with you, I’ve met a lot of confident guys in clubs, doing the same stupid lines time and time and time again hi what’s your name, can I buy you drink, what do you do, where do you live, hi what’s your name...

Confidence is a must, is the girl impressed yes, will he get to fuck her nope, she’s already bored and she’s given the rescue signal to her girlfriend.
The PUA industry teaches the confident and unconfident a series of routines that vastly improve their chances. I’ve never attended a seminar or bootcamp but I’ve seen videos and the tactics they teach is what works for me.

If you still doubt me, try this. Would you agree you need confidence to drive a car? I think we all agree with that but would you get into a car with someone who only had awesome confidence, of course not. That’s the industry it teaches you how to drive.

I wouldn't, you wouldn't. Most guys on here wouldn't? Plenty out there would though!

It also teaches you how to crash, then you pick yourself up and go and crash some more until you reach a turning point where you can see yourself crashing less often