Kowalski

I like what i have read, some good stuff.

But a few things i disagree with, going in direct is not the easiest way to approach. I have nothing against direct approaching in fact its something i want to start doing more.

Using an opinion opener doesn't have to be fake or manipulated, And takes very little memorizing, and you don't no what that women will say in response, so it still requires good improvisational skills.

I don't no how many approaches i have done using opinion openers, but its probably over 150. I can tell you the worst response i have ever had was "you need another chat up line" had that about 3 times, and i was pissed up each time.

About 2 weeks ago went out,used an opinion opener on this women, she was a 30 year old high school teacher, so an intelligent women. We were talking for a bit,then she questioned my opener, and i said yeah it did happen and am interested in your answer, but i also use it to get talking to women, she said i thought so, she also said she thought is was very clever, then she went away, then came back to me and started talking to me again, she was actually married. we spent the next 30mins talking about the education system.

It depends what the opener is, and how you use them, my motive is to begin the interaction in a different way.

Opinion openers are the norm so you are not being particularly different. That's why you'll get girls telling you to get a new chat up line.

How many girls out the 150 you reckon would tell you that if you said - 'Hi, my name's Zone'?

Just a note on what you said about being direct. Sure it's not the easiest way to approach, but that's the whole point, you'll be showing balls.

A quick formula for you at this junction - showing balls = attraction.

They told me to get a new chat up line,because when i was pissed up,i said it like it was a chat up line.

I said it like it was a script, not really believing what i was saying.

Its not what you say, its how you say it.

Amen to that. That's the point.

And this is where the shy guy learns to become the confident guy.

As av said its good info your giving, just think your unnecessary discrediting good information from others in the community.

The MM/loves systems method has a much deeper level to it than just the openers,routines,body language tactics and all the other surface stuff, its only being judged on the outer shell.

People should learn as much from as many people as they can with an open mind, then decided what to keep and discard.

Few post ago talking about manipulation, yeah my point was manipulation is such a common thing, its nothing more than a powerful form of communication. Manipulation is labeled a bad thing in our society, its nothing more than a skill, all effective communicators use.

I for one am judging MM on my own experiences. I'm afraid I spent way to long looking for a depth in the MM, and found nothing but tactics to try and change myself, the way I dress, the way I behave, what I say, the way I carry myself with my body language! Basically all this reinforced my limiting beliefs and made me more self conscious. Not helpful.

Couple of videos i would like some opinions on,one is of ross jeffries being interviewed and the other is of a MM/love systems instructor called Cajun being interviewed, who appeared on a show called keys to the vip.

After viewing the ross jeffries one i started to take him more serious.

There in multiple parts.

YouTube - Ross Jeffries Interview, Part 1

YouTube - Pickup Artist Cajun Pickup Interview Advanced - Part 1

Sums it up for me.

Originally Posted by kowalski View Post
I find that argument abhorent. A lot of people do a lot of fucked up shit like murder, torture, steal, lie, rape etc. That doesn't make them OK, or become a decent reason for someone to join in.

Will reply to this, murder,torture,stealing, and rape arnt comparable to manipulation, to lie and manipulate are not necessary bad things, as i think you pointed out, it all depends how you use them, what your intent is.

Am now good at using body language in my openings, as i approach i keep my distance, lean back and sometimes pull away completely, in an attempt to get them to come to me, can be very effective in making them feel comfortable during the approach.

A type of manipulation maybe, but is it wrong to do it, I don't think so. In fact if the next time i do that, then i told her about it after, am sure she would just think it was clever. like my opening example.

Natural game is definitely the direction to head for, but is it the best place to start off for every guy, in different social conditions am honestly not sure.

All i know is, i took my direction and its working for me.