I have downloaded some of his free material off his site awhile back, looked at his inner-game stuff, I agree with near enough everything i have read,some of it has been helpful to me,learned a few things from it.

Only really looked at the patterns recently, decided wouldn't mind learning one and trying it out, has any body tried using these to build attraction.

I don't want anyone telling me just be natural, because i already focus most of my energy on natural/innergame, But i still like using scripts,opinion openers and routines, cause i have alot of fun with them in the night game.

Its not what you say,its how you say it.

I study i wider view of the force.

In a word - No.

I'm with CO on this one. Their's something about Jefferies that doesn't sit right with me (Not his technique... but him - which probably effects my reaction to his technique). Actually its the same for Tyler D as well... though I haven't really sat down and listen to him properly.

In what way is using somebody else's scripted routine fun, and how can the adrenaline of the unkown be really be beaten?!

Response To Nova

First thing, who said i was using somebody else's script, opinion openers i use are ones i have created myself, i actually care about the question and the response. Using a script or routines, doesn't mean everything i say is scripted, thats not possible, it is possible to use natural game and a script as a foundation, and use routines to spice it up, it doesn't mean i rely on them.

Even using a script, you can never fully predict the out come, your still diving into the unknown.

My opinion openers are engineered to be funny and entertaining, there not just some made up boring story.

This is how i use routines, during the interaction i may say to her,have u ever had your palms read,so i start reading her palm,nothing after this point is scripted,i will improvise to try and make it as fun as possible, good opportunity to tease her, and the more i use it the better i get at improvising.

Zone! You've reflected my feelings in words. It's not comes out your mouth that gives you the rush, it's the act of doing that does. I've used routines and got on really well, then I've acted natural and bombed (and vise versa). For me it's doesn't matter what comes
out your mouth (though I try to stick to the truth theses days - saying I've had a stripper girlfriend is not true - yet! )

I digress... Let's not get off topic.

Why not, is palm reading being inauthentic ?, if there executed well can be effective, if they entertain everyone involved i don't see the problem.

Going back to Ross Jeffries, i think the man has some issues. But he does have some great knowledge, will be going out tonight so will try and get a pattern memorized see if i can use it at some point,will be my little experiment.

K, did you just say 'Nude Erection' and 'Blow me'??......wash your filthy mouth out!

Response to kowalski

I treat picking up routines like palm reading, like picking out cloths, if i like it and i think it will suit me, I may just try it on for size, is it inauthentic to ware cloths that somebody else has designed ?. Yes kino is something i was going me mention, palm reading is just an example, i have used it but not that often.

I have studied applied psychology, at a very basic level if u compliment someone they like you,insult they dislike you, if someone compliments someone to get a certain response, is int that manipulation, and the same with insulting someone as-well, when a women puts on make up, wears a push up bra, to get a certain response thats manipulation, i no women at work that use there looks to get men to do things for them, again manipulation.

If a guy starts studying this stuff,but only wants to focus on natural game no routines no opinion openers, only focus on the beliefs mindsets,innergame, isint that guy changing who he is,so some people might call that inauthentic.

Class post kowalski, fair play.

I think the point that Zone was trying to make when talking about manipulation is that people use manipulation all the time, so using routines to manipulate is fine because people manipulate all the time, everyday. However, as you explained so well, to attract a woman you don't need to manipulate them, just to be your true, untarnished natural self.

I know where Zone is coming from because I had the same mindset as him to begin with.

I was crap with women, so I read The Game and heard of all these routines and strategies and believed that the reason I wasn't getting women was because I was not implementing these techniques. However, I've slowly come to learn that my difficulty with women is due to the fact that I haven't been able to express my natural self which has been buried under a lot fear, insecurities and limiting beliefs built over many years from a very young age. However, this is now changing and I feel damn good about it.

" A wisdom earned".