Class post kowalski, fair play.

I think the point that Zone was trying to make when talking about manipulation is that people use manipulation all the time, so using routines to manipulate is fine because people manipulate all the time, everyday. However, as you explained so well, to attract a woman you don't need to manipulate them, just to be your true, untarnished natural self.

I know where Zone is coming from because I had the same mindset as him to begin with.

I was crap with women, so I read The Game and heard of all these routines and strategies and believed that the reason I wasn't getting women was because I was not implementing these techniques. However, I've slowly come to learn that my difficulty with women is due to the fact that I haven't been able to express my natural self which has been buried under a lot fear, insecurities and limiting beliefs built over many years from a very young age. However, this is now changing and I feel damn good about it.

" A wisdom earned".