Broadswords Thread

[Serendipity]

Sha is right. At the moment you need experiences to build your self-confidence. I'm starting to lower my sights too for the moment. And instead of thinking in terms of ' hotness' ratings just use the binary system, i.e. 0 (no) or 1 (yes). Beer goggles help.

[nova]

Originally Posted by BroadswordWSJ

It's also occured to me I've always in ways been ashamed or scared of a girl knowing I like her, even when I ask then out. "OMG! What if she realises I like her or she thinks I'm sleazing on her

Ah man, I totally relate to this! I spent most of my life feeling this way. It wasn’t until I started taking those first steps a few years ago and speaking my mind more to girls that I realised that not hiding how I felt was actually positive. The problem with ‘nice guys’ are that they are, to be blunt, liars. They hide their feelings, don’t speak out when they wish they had, and say/do the opposite of what they wanted to say/do, and all for fear of damaging their ego. I’m still trying to shake off this trait myself.

Originally Posted by BroadswordWSJ

At New Year whilst I was at dinner with my female friends, i thought our waitress was hot. Eventually i asked her name, it was Karen. i said "Karen, your a pretty damn good waitress, I bet the rest of them aren't as good as you?" She looked a bit startled embarrassed butt before she could really reply my female friends freaked out and covered their faces with shock...and "apologised" to the waitress for me before scolding me "Oh Broadsword, what are you doing, you don't talk to women like that!" I was actually pretty chuffed with what i said and felt like I couldn't take it further because of my friends! They are women - what the hell do they know about chatting up women??

This is a great step in the right direction. I can only imagine she said this as she’s not used to hearing you speaking like this, and she likes you just the way you are. Maybe she even didn’t like it because she enjoys the attention she gets from you so wants you to be a good little boy and keep in line.

Originally Posted by BroadswordWSJ

I need to do more of what i did in the last paragraph. Thanks for the replies.

100% right man, you realise what you need to do. Push those fucking boundaries some more now.

[daleinthedark]

What Nova said!!

Originally Posted by nova

Ah man, I totally relate to this! I spent most of my life feeling this way. It wasn’t until I started taking those first steps a few years ago and speaking my mind more to girls that I realised that not hiding how I felt was actually positive. The problem with ‘nice guys’ are that they are, to be blunt, liars. They hide their feelings, don’t speak out when they wish they had, and say/do the opposite of what they wanted to say/do, and all for fear of damaging their ego. I’m still trying to shake off this trait myself.

This is the same for me!

[BroadswordWSJ]

Originally Posted by maestro

I'd presume she said this as she has a certain perception of the way you are with women. But I would have playfully but firmly put your female friend in her place for being so condescending.

Originally Posted by nova

I can only imagine she said this as she’s not used to hearing you speaking like this, and she likes you just the way you are.

Yeah, I think you've both hit the nail 100% on the head there. They are not used to me hitting on women & just see me as nice little Broadsword. They interupted before the waitress had a chance to answer, when they apologised for my behaviour she kinda went "Erm....thats ok", she seemed confused and not overly bothered. I wish I had said something back to my friend now; I feel like she ruined it for me!

Originally Posted by nova

Ah man, I totally relate to this! I spent most of my life feeling this way. It wasn’t until I started taking those first steps a few years ago and speaking my mind more to girls that I realised that not hiding how I felt was actually positive. The problem with ‘nice guys’ are that they are, to be blunt, liars. They hide their feelings, don’t speak out when they wish they had, and say/do the opposite of what they wanted to say/do, and all for fear of damaging their ego. I’m still trying to shake off this trait myself.

What do you mean by fear of damaging ego? You mean protecting yourself from rejection?

Yeah, I'm beginning to agree with what you just wrote, hiding intentions actually seems so counter productive and its also dishonest. I began to realise this a few pages back in this thread where I talk about being more humble and taking an actual interest in other people. Reading Mark Manson's stuff & No More Mr. Nice Guy has helped. Everyone knows women have good intuition/shit detector whatever. I read a quote from Mark Manson which said "If you want to fuck a girl but your talking about the weather, you'll come across weird. If your interested in the weather but talkign like you want to fuck her...you'll come across weird". Women can probably detect you fancy them but you come across as weird, or something isn't quite right because your hiding it. Probably because there's a mismatch with your thoughts VS they way you are expressing yourself.

I've always prided myself on being honest & genuine; hiding intentions form women goes completely against this. Ironic how I used to look at direct VS indirect approaches and totally not like direct, I'm beginning to do a 180 flip toward this now.

[Serendipity]

There's also nuances to this, such as the verbal / non-verbal communication and situation you are in. You could be building sexual tension with eye contact / touch and be talking about the weather at the same time. I would say this is still being congrouis.

If you cold approach a girl in night club or bar it's quite clear you like her from the outset. But in a more everyday situation you might need to say it, as you did at the dinner.

This is something I've not been good at either. Yes, I would hide it, and this isn't what a confident man would do. An excuse I would often make in rationalising it to myself was I was not wanting to look too keen. But usually all that happened was they assumed I wasn't interested.

[Serendipity]

Years ago I had oneitis over a girl at work. She gave me quite a lot of compliments so I finally worked up the courage to ask her out. I was really nervous and made the mistake of asking her to go out on a weekend night. I didn't know then this isn't a good option for first date. She said she couldn't cause she was busy. But she hung around (waiting to see if I would ask her if she could make it another night I guess). But I was shot through with nerves and couldn't do it.

I concluded from that one incident, and maybe a few other rejections I got that there was something fundamentally wrong with me and I was unnatractive to girls. Then the next 20 years of my life in terms of women was laid waste.

[nova]

Originally Posted by BroadswordWSJ

Yeah, I think you've both hit the nail 100% on the head there. They are not used to me hitting on women & just see me as nice little Broadsword. They interupted before the waitress had a chance to answer, when they apologised for my behaviour she kinda went "Erm....thats ok", she seemed confused and not overly bothered. I wish I had said something back to my friend now; I feel like she ruined it for me!

You need to think about doing more of these things alone/away from those friends who might judge.

Originally Posted by BroadswordWSJ

What do you mean by fear of damaging ego? You mean protecting yourself from rejection?

Exactly. Playing it safe by being agreeable.

Originally Posted by BroadswordWSJ

I read a quote from Mark Manson which said "If you want to fuck a girl but your talking about the weather, you'll come across weird. If your interested in the weather but talkign like you want to fuck her...you'll come across weird".

I don’t think it’s quite as simple as that. The words that are coming out of your mouth only count for a smaller percentage of the communication, as she will read your eyes and body language (like everyone does, including you). Thus talking about pretty much anything is fine, so you can flirt while talking about the weather fronts, and it won’t be weird.

As soon as you go up to a girl she’ll know, as you’re a man and she’s a girl. I’ve realised this more and more through testing being direct/indirect. You just need to get over the shame you feel for expressing this, however small.

[Serendipity]

And if you can't / don't want to convert any of these friends into lovers it would help to try expanding /changing your circle. They might have become a comfort zone for you.

You can get validation and comfort from male friends and this would allow you to see women more as a polar opposite. Which for a sexual relationship to develop is how they need to see you as well.

[BroadswordWSJ]

The canteen girl that started at my work around a month ago is pretty hot. Its pretty difficult to have any kind of meaningful conversation with her as the snack bar is so busy, on average I talk to her for around 20-45 seconds a day whilst I buy something; there's always a queue of staff behind me.

So, given that we've never had any meaningful conversation, and there's not any kind of attraction, flirting or comfort present....I decided to ask her out (I'm leaving next week anyways)

I went at a time I didn't think would be busy & no one else was around. I bought something small, made some fluff talk about the day coming to an end then asked her name which she gave me. I then said "NAME, I'm leaving here next week & it's difficult to find time to talk to you here with it being so busy. I think your pretty hot - we should go out for some drinks to get to know each other better". She smiled and said she can't because she has a bf, I said "Really? Just don't tell him, we can keep it a secret" & she just laughed and said she didn't think that would be a good idea. Couple minutes more fluff talk and I left.

Things to note from this:

1. 90% sure she was lying about a bf, she's never mentioned him before. Speaking about Xmas & NY she was spending it with family & never mentions him when doing stuff at weekends. Presume this is just to be polite, I'd actually have preferred if she just said she wasn't interested.

2. I felt anxious as I was going to see her as I knew exactly what i was going to do, but not overly anxious. But when the words started coming out of my mouth - Holy shit! I started feeling my face coming out into a flush, my voice wavered and I felt a bit dizzy. Delivery really wasn;'t great. You know that feeling you get when you walk round a corner and someone jumps out on you and goes "BOO!", or when someone makes a fool out of you and everyone points and laughs at you - thats pretty much how I felt. Went from being 4/10 - 8/10 nervous in the space of a few seconds.

3. I've no idea what posessed me to do this, maybe because I'm leaving, maybe because of this thread.

Overall I'm not bothered it didn't go anywhere, a bit irked that I think she lied about a bf. The ting that worries me the most is how anxious I got as soon as I began my line to ask her out - anxiety just shot right through me & I wasn't confident at all, thats quite worrying. I'm sure you'll all probably just tell me I need to do this another 50-60 times to get used to it. I'm not going to get into melt down and whine like I did in the last few posts but i really hope this isn't some kind of major internal issue I have or that I need to do something crazy to strengthen my inner core. i suppose I should take a positive form it - at least I did it even if it was on a total whim.

[Serendipity]

She might have said she had a bf as a knee jerk reaction in the moment. The anxiety you felt is a normal thing so don't worry about it. Can't win em all but as you say the positive thing is you pushed past the anxiety and did it and it didn't kill you.