Zone i know it might seem like they are putitng you down mate but your wrong, everyone here is just passionate about the game. (sure some more that others, me included )

But its a great environment, i think its safe to say everyone here is trying their best to improve both their and their fellow pua's game. Thats why we have a section entirely for field reports.

I think Kowalski gets frustrated sometimes as people haven't been trained or have knowledge of debate like he does so things go round in circles or more things are added without addressing previous arguments.

He did however hold out an olive branch to come and meet up and you go on about how people need to feel good about themselves and don't know much then say you focus on truth, rationality and being unbiased.

I don't think any of this has anything to do with peoples egos it's just because we have different stand points on subjects so If you say something I don't agree with or find fault in your reasoning or sources I'm not going to agree but it doesn't mean I'm looking for an ego boost.

I have a friend who is into conspiracy theories and we debate all the time about it, he's obviously totally wrong and I pull apart his methods and sources and he does the same but we're still very good mates.
I think it's harder on an internet forum as it's an impersonal method of discussion but debate helps address problems with your stance and find weaknesses in it, sometimes these weaknesses are so big you'll change your stance completely.

I used to be into conspiracies but I read and heard some things that changed my mind, I still think there's bad shit going on but I don't think some new world order is going to take over the world and some of the people who made me change my stance I don't agree with entirely (like Christopher Hitchens) I still have respect for them but I think they themselves would rather me look into their arguments rather than take it as face value.

So dude come and meet up with us, you'll see we're not too bad

Well said, I completly agree with you mate

p.s we didnt land on the moon, explain the waving flag, I didn't know knaan was famous back then lol

Am not just talking about me, av read plenty of posts on here by others that have been attacked.

I know people on here want to help others and be helped, thats one of the things i like about this community.

A lot of the views on here are good, but a little narrow minded, no room for maneuver.

Well ok tell me Zone which of these views do you feel are narrow minded?

I've read plenty of constructive criticism in the year that I've been on this forum that respresent a variety of views/methods/theories... call them what you will. It's together, as different as we might be, we are giving each other a bredth of views that are most certainly the opposite of narrow minded, and give every one of us yet more yeild to manovre and certainly more things to consider trying.

I think we lean more towards natural here but any forum you go on I think you're going to get differing opinions and people won't agree. You can either debate or choose to say everyone is valid and not allow people to probe your views or the views of other people.

As for the flag, there is very little air resistance on the moon so when the astronauts put the flag in the moon the momentum from that took a lot longer to stabilize than it would have within an atmosphere

agreed blanca!
i remember seeing that episode of louis theroux's weird weekends and i recall even louis thinking it wouldnt work in england

The views on learning, The guys that will get involved in this community, may have very different problems, the end goal might be the same, but they can start from very different places.

Quick example, guy that gets attraction easy but cant pull the tigger, or guy that just cant get attraction,but has lots of female friends, There could be a very large variety of reasons why someone isint getting success.

Natural game is the best way, something i aim more towards, but without my experimenting with material from DD/MM, i would never have reached the understanding i have now, for some people i believe that level of understanding is essential if they want to have success in this area, so they understand why something works and doesnt work, ands its not necessary something that can be expressed in words, its like something that clicks inside you.

There is no point saying to someone dont use canned material or routines cause its fake and cheesy and wont work, canned material definitely can work, am coming away from that because i was starting to get bored using the same kind of thing, the point here is, i didnt need anybody else telling me what to do, i learnt this for myself, i reached a level of understanding and confidence that only came from actually experimenting and trying this stuff out, which allowed me to take a more natural route.

I see people on here getting attacked for using MM, Some people gotta learn the hard way, so i say let them. Give advice but make sure you understand the problem.

Fair play for addressing the point properly Zone. This is an issue I do wonder about a lot. There was a thread last week where someone was asking - 'where do I start?' I am at a loss in which direction to push someone in this postion at times. I am reluctant to advise MM, purely because it felt wrong for me and got me very few results, but at the same time it took me a lot of experimentation to get the point where it 'clicked' as you say. I feel the sooner a newbie realises it's not what you say that matters, it's how you behave, the better. I do wonder if MM stalls this revelation however.