No. We are straying off into different but related subjects and using arguments for one subject against the other. We are discussing God, religion and morality as far as I can see.

To illustrate, Flake, you start with God, and then discuss religion, I presume Christianity?

Also, the word religion is understood differently depending on your paradigm or intended meaning, organised religion, a belief system, personal religion.

Yes but no, again it depends on your paradigm, my belief set is an ideal to work to, to aim for. I’m just honest enough to acknowledge where I fall short.

Gosh - a very theological question and needs unravelling to understand.

If we ask the question – if God exists then where is he? If God exists in a place, then he is limited to its dimensions therefore not infinite etc.. Theologians have traditionally answered this question by concluding that space and time are creations of God and he is not restricted by his creation. The ultimate nature of God is beyond our capability to comprehend but the attribution of power and will are commonly shared by belief systems.

To come back to your question, the laws of nature, are understood to be Gods will in motion. Therefore a disruption in the laws of nature wouldn’t be a separate event from their daily operation.

I hear you, but that is not what I am saying. If we stick to a logical thought process, starting with – is there a God, then depending on your conclusion you then move forward into a belief, agnosticism or atheism.

The point I am making is – logically starting with – this part of a religion seem silly and therefore scientifically I’ve proved there isn’t a God, is, as K Dawg would say, non sequitur.

You know the problem with this subject is people are so sure of themselves. To say that you know for certain that something such as God does or does not exist is delusional in my opinion. And I'm not having a dig at having faith in any kind of religions here cos I think that can be a really good thing, if you do it for your own reasons and not for someone else's, but to be so certain of anything on this scale is quite delusional I think.

I was refering to abrahamic religions specifically as they are the most prevelent in the society most of us live in.

In a somewhat summaritive point, if there is a god or multiple gods I still would not worship them because I owe them nothing. I did not decide to be created. I also think that if there is an afterlife I should qualify because I have done good deeds without hope of reward, and refrained from bad ones without fearing hell. I've made mistakes but I'm satisfied I have been a good person... So far. That said, I think it is highly highly unlikely there are any deities or spritual forces and so I am not going to base any of my decisions on the near impossibility there is.

It's not straying all you did was attempt to answer 2 points one about science and the other was your view on atheism. The other points were valid no one has started talking about anything else other than fight club which is the question you decided to answer.

Points you didn't answer which are related

Basically what's the point of following a god who's a evil? Therefore forget religions even if they are true.

More god evilness or god isn't omnipotent.

One major thing about god is that why does he make us to then test us to see if we are worthy? What's the point? Surely that's a bit of a fucked up way even sadistic way of doing things?

Islam preaches abstinence yet you joined a forum on how to pick and sleep with women that's a backwards step surely? Muslims are advised to behave in a way and avoid circumstances that could potentially result in extra or pre-marital sex but you're doing the opposite.

So your saying you don't understand god? Why do you attempt to follow something you don't understand then? If you don't know the ultimate nature of god who's to say he is not evil and leading us to destruction and pain?

Not "seems silly", "is illogical", your trying to spin our words there ironically with supposed logic! Nice try we're not trying to argue with silliness.

The difference is one view is based on faith something you do not use for anything else the other view is based on logic, evidence and reasoning.

Tom you beautifully missed the point.

Let me state it again, so its clear exactly what I am saying.

SCIENCE HAS NOT DISPROVED THE EXISTENCE OF GOD.

Now all the other theological questions you quote relate to the nature of God and human free will. They have been dealt with in depth by Thomas Aquinas, Maimonides and Al Ghazali for the three Abrahamic traditions.

But if we dont agree on the above point then its pointless discussing this any further.

And personally attacking me is pretty poo. This forum is also about being socially awesome. Well, there are billions of people on this rock that believe in God, and most are better than me.

WHY HAVE ALL THESE BLOODY RELIGIOUS ARGUMENTS AND COUNTER-ARGUMENTS STARTED IN PUA GENERAL CHAT SECTION...!

Should be moved to off-topic..!

Enlighten me and everyone else then I doubt they have.

I haven't personnally attacked you I just asked a question, pick up and islam don't seem to fit i'm just curious as to how you fit these together. Since this is a post about religion, this is a pick up forum and you are a muslim I'm wondering how these conflicting views fit together.

I contend that it has. Tom demonstrated that logically, and thus scientifically, 'God' cannot exist as he's been understood to be as per the epicurus quote

Gosh, that sounds like a discussion and a half. I'll ask the Imam at the mosque to do a sermon and I'll record it for you - I can see it now!!

Im just looking for my 4 wifes bro.

Pick up is about women and men and I've personally learnt a lot since I joined this forum. I also have a lot of respect for the guys and have been impressed by everyone I've met off here. (Looks to mods with puppy eyes..)

Guess not then