Damaged goods & escalation

[PostScript]

Craigus’ last post made me remember this little tip. Not quite the same scenario, but powerful stuff.

A lot of girls have been knocked around, if not sexually abused in varying degrees. This leaves some girls with negative experiences of men, yet attraction for you. These competing drives (attraction vs self preservation, be it emotional or otherwise) will cause hot and cold behaviour and a great deal of time and frustrated effort, so you have two options with a girl who has been through something like this:

a) Strongly consider just saying “next”, apply standard “game” techniques or move on, it’s not your place to save the world and may well lead to a pile of hurt for you to get involved with…in other words, solid valuable “game” advice. The majority of the time, this is the choice.
b) If, and I mean if, however you’re genuinely into her and want to lead her through this, you’ll have to do just that: lead her.

If you go for “b”, this is what you do.

When kissing, whisper to her “We’re going to try this: quietly say the word “stop” to me”, she may be confused and you may have to re-prompt her to say it “go on, quietly say the word “stop” to me”. When she does, back off from kissing and being intimate, sit a metre away from her, and smile at her with eye contact for a few seconds, then go back in again. If she queries you, authoritatively say "never mind just trust me", and start kissing her again passionately. Do this two or three times as you escalate and things move well pass kissing. If she questions you about what’s going on, or even if she doesn’t, make sure to tell her “look, I want you to really understand I’m not like other men you may have known, I find you sexy as hell, but I will never hurt you or make you feel afraid. I want you to feel safe with me so you can let go and enjoy your sexuality”…or words to that effect. These are not just words, these are words with actions too, actions in the heat of the moment no less. That's why you make her say it and carry out the steps.

What does this say about you? It says you’re aware. It says you’re mature enough to take your share of the responsibility as the man with her. It says you are not afraid for her to stop you, that you welcome it if she so chooses. You have to actually be at peace with stopping. There is always the chance she will cease on the opportunity to stop you if it becomes too much for her. If she does, maybe think again about her, or maybe give her time, it's up to you. There is a strong chance this will save you a lot of trouble going forward if successful, or if you decide to move on, either way. In all probability, she’ll rip your clothes off and tell you to shut up…because what you’ve done is the opposite of every other guy who has pressured her into sex. You can use this to build massive sexual tension, not to mention and break down future barriers that she might have otherwise randomly thrown up at a later date just when you thought you were getting somewhere.

The critical part throughout here is your sub-communication. If you’re doing this from a grovelling “beta” frame giving her the power and asking her to lead, it won’t work. At all. If however you’re doing it from a place of maturity and dominance, taking her under your wing, she’ll love you for it. Doesn’t mean this is only reserved for LTR girls, but just think about it for these situations. It’s like Einstein said “you can’t solve a problem with the same level of thinking that created it”.

PS

[legend]

Originally Posted by PostScript

b) If, and I mean if, however you’re genuinely into her and want to lead her through this, you’ll have to do just that: lead her.

If you go for “b”, this is what you do.

When kissing, whisper to her “We’re going to try this: quietly say the word “stop” to me”, she may be confused and you may have to re-prompt her to say it “go on, quietly say the word “stop” to me”. When she does, back off from kissing and being intimate, sit a metre away from her, and smile at her with eye contact for a few seconds, then go back in again. If she queries you, authoritatively say "never mind just trust me", and start kissing her again passionately. Do this two or three times as you escalate and things move well pass kissing. If she questions you about what’s going on, or even if she doesn’t, make sure to tell her “look, I want you to really understand I’m not like other men you may have known, I find you sexy as hell, but I will never hurt you or make you feel afraid. I want you to feel safe with me so you can let go and enjoy your sexuality”…or words to that effect. These are not just words, these are words with actions too, actions in the heat of the moment no less. That's why you make her say it and carry out the steps.

What does this say about you? It says you’re aware. It says you’re mature enough to take your share of the responsibility as the man with her. It says you are not afraid for her to stop you, that you welcome it if she so chooses. You have to actually be at peace with stopping. There is always the chance she will cease on the opportunity to stop you if it becomes too much for her. If she does, maybe think again about her, or maybe give her time, it's up to you. There is a strong chance this will save you a lot of trouble going forward if successful, or if you decide to move on, either way. In all probability, she’ll rip your clothes off and tell you to shut up…because what you’ve done is the opposite of every other guy who has pressured her into sex. You can use this to build massive sexual tension, not to mention and break down future barriers that she might have otherwise randomly thrown up at a later date just when you thought you were getting somewhere.

The critical part throughout here is your sub-communication. If you’re doing this from a grovelling “beta” frame giving her the power and asking her to lead, it won’t work. At all. If however you’re doing it from a place of maturity and dominance, taking her under your wing, she’ll love you for it. Doesn’t mean this is only reserved for LTR girls, but just think about it for these situations. It’s like Einstein said “you can’t solve a problem with the same level of thinking that created it”.

PS

PS,
IMO: This seems too much hard work and NOT genuine whatsoever. The thing is if you genuinely into a girl, you genuinely into a girl. I wont even play this sort of "game" with her, just trying to prove to her I can stop, I am self-controlled, I am mature. If she says stop, I will stop cos I respect her. Not asking her to say stop as I kiss her. Then back off. Im my opinion, it just fucks her up even more cos she doesnt think this is genuine.

[Maxemillion]

I'd find it a turn on if she was saying 'stop' to me during sex tho so I'd replace it with the code word 'biscuit'. Lean in and whisper in her ear "say 'biscuit' to me".

[face]

Originally Posted by Maxemillion

Lean in and whisper in her ear "say 'biscuit' to me".

lol you have just invented a new game for the night bus back from town.
cheers

[Refl3x]

ok this post pisses me off, if i got wind of somone manipulating some of the girls ive known who have had serious abuse i would take their fucking head straight off their shoulders

A girl i dated for a while had years of Torture from a guy, who is behind bars for a long time because he left her for dead and i say torture it was beyond abuse
she was seriously psychologically fucked up and in constant fear -- everytime we kisses her jaw clicked because she was punched in the face day after day from this twat, this went on for years and i watched her fall apart in front of me and she had me in tears when she opened up to me and told me what had happened to her.
The idea of anyone manipulating her to fuck her fills me with rage.
I helped her as much as i could - she thanked me and told me she would have ended her life had she not met me, shes vanished and id do anything to track her down but i dont know her surname.

[PostScript]

Strange responses, you're misconstruing it. It's not meant to be manipulative, it's meant to be the exact opposite of manipulative. It's meant to be protective, not remotely manipulative! It's meant to take a girl you genuinely care about and make her feel safe so she can enjoy a part of life she's got issues with, caused by the failings of some of our gender. In my opinion, the freeze out type gamey responses that are so commonly offered are way more manipulative and leave the girl with little hope of forming bonds again. It's just childish. Surely nobody thinks I'm suggesting we game abuse victims (Reflex), don't be bloody daft! Look at the intent, we both know most girls have been pushed into things they don't talk about and a little compassion and giving her the control has got to be healthier for everyone than being frozen out or being "nexted" just for having a negative past and being stuck between fear and a craving for intimacy? I hate the way we punish girls because we can't handle that they've been through shit, I mean we've all been through shit. Where's the compassion in the gamey methods to this prevalent problem? Nowhere, that's where.

PS

[Refl3x]

Im just touchy on that subject, instead of reading things i just see red

[PostScript]

Originally Posted by legend

PS,
IMO: This seems too much hard work and NOT genuine whatsoever. The thing is if you genuinely into a girl, you genuinely into a girl. I wont even play this sort of "game" with her, just trying to prove to her I can stop, I am self-controlled, I am mature. If she says stop, I will stop cos I respect her. Not asking her to say stop as I kiss her. Then back off. Im my opinion, it just fucks her up even more cos she doesnt think this is genuine.

I respectfully disagree. Like Reflex (although less serious than his example) and many of us I suspect, I've had cause to research this. In my case I lost a girl I loved because she was grappling with her cunt of an ex having forced her, and it shut her down sexually. It took her a while to divulge, I thought it was me and didn't know what to do. Ultimately she moved to get as far away from him as she could. The other thread responses to Craigus' post were fine if you're not into someone then distance yourself, but what if you're already into each other. She cares, you care, but there is a problem...now what? GFTOW? (Punishing her for being human). Freeze her and make her chase? (Make her suppress it to get you back). Make a joke of it? (Distance yourself from anything real). It's all weak, manipulative, and not genuine. If you're into each other she already knows you're genuine there's no confusion, surely you've got to change something, the idea being that demonstrating care is way deeper than talking care. I don't know how I'd handle it in the same situation again, but this line of thought is the nearest I've found to a more elevated approach in the community.

PS

[PostScript]

Originally Posted by Refl3x

Im just touchy on that subject, instead of reading things i just see red

No problem fella, it's "positive intention", speaks well of you. Sorry to hear of your example, I can relate to some extent. I posted it because this is everywhere and the other thread irked me a bit, yet there is no sensible debate about how to handle it, it's all self preservation and pumping state, the standard community advice which shuts us down from genuine emotion and/or shuts out the girl for being human. The community has nothing on this if you're into each other and there is a genuine problem that could at least be attempted to be healed.

PS

[Refl3x]

A very close friend of mine was seriously depressed and hung herself, i was cut up for years until i came to the conclusion that there was nothing i could have done, and looking at my past actions i did absolutly everything i humanly could to help.

My conclusion was that as good as your intentions can be-- some people are beyond your help and cant be healed

I also think most people live in a blinkered world and are oblivious to the levels of suffering some people have inflicted upon them by others