A recent sticking point I've noticed is after opening and saying a few words I'm drying up then bailing. It could be I'm looking for a reaction too soon and if I don't get one I go in my head and that stops me ploughing on until I do get a response.

I don't like the idea of learning routines or anything canned.

When I'm talking with mates I can feel us pumping each others state until it's like a switch has been thrown where it all just flows easily...unstilted. But the kind of stuff we talk about probably wouldn't work with most girls. Or maybe I should just do the same shit and see if it works. Maybe I'm filtering too much the kind of things I can talk about.

I know there's no easy answer but I wondered what the guys on here normally do to get past the initial stage just after opening.

Any advice appreciated.

Can you give a recent example?

I went through a patch where I couldn't think of things to say etc... But I feel that it just takes practice to be able to effectivly have a sort of off the cuff style. Then I started to realise that I always used to say "I think" an aweful lot and that means I'm in my head way too much. That's why I hold back with certain people.

But once you realise that there's no point to thinking about shit and that shits shit and that shits shit etc.. You just go for it and most times, you'll wonder why the fuck you waited.
Falls into 'being not doing'.

Friday night I approached two cute girls standing near me in the pub which was really busy. If I remember I said hi, and asked them if they were locals. Got quite a good reaction, smiles eye contact, laughing. They said they worked in a local pub. Then I couldn't continue the convo. They hung around for a few seconds then moved away as I suppose it felt awkward.

The opening was fine and good reaction. I must have got in my head instead of just going for it, as you say. I could have said anything at all and it would have been better than nothing. It happened another couple of times that night. Maybe it was just an off night for me. I don't think I was present because I didn't really listen to what they were saying.

Yeah dude there's tons of stuff you could have asked them:

* Which pub
* How come they're out on friday night... They should be working
* Talk about pick up and what types of stuff they get off guys in the pub

Just let the conversation flow. But you should be listening to them and for me, that's what you should be tackling. Call it whatever works for you; litening more; investing more into the conversation, whatever you like but 1 of the best ways to effectively communicate is, of course, to listen.

1 silly fun thing I did yesterday, completely random thought come into my head was to approach and say "Hi. 5 question game, I ask 1 then you ask 1, but only upto 5. Go! .. What's your name?".

The 2 girls I did it on it worked really well, I got way past 5 questions with both. I don't know if its already a canned material whatever but it was just a random thought to have a game because I wanted to do something instead of sitting and waiting.

Some good stuff there. It would probably be useful for me to have a few routines to call on just for those times when I'm not feeling that creative. One thing I remember was not chatting to anyone when I first went out, before my mates arrived. Even when they arrived I was quite subdued and in my head. I should get chatting right away when I go out so by the time I approach girls I'm already warmed up. And as you say make sure to listen what;s being said, not just hear the sounds.

Something I do before going out on a date is calling up a buddy and talking shite for a bit and it usually livens me up. I know friday was a bit shitty so dont worry about it too much, but if it persists maybe do the same sort of thing.

Barney's bob on there

I know a lot of guys on here don't like Strauss or the game but he talks about hooks in a conversation as a metaphor. For example "They said they worked in a local pub" so the hooks you could pull on are they are local and they work in a pub , so you carry on with that. "how long have you lived here" or "what pub, is it worth a visit" or "is the beer/atmosphere good"

It seems obvious but painting that picture helped me a lot.

GoodRebel

Tyler also talks about hookpoints in relation to ploughing (just keeping talking until something hooks). Listening for hooks is slightly different but it's really effective if the person gives you decent hooks to work with. They did give me hooks but I didn't pick up on them. I find this happens if I'm a bit nervous. Ploughing seems easier for me when I'm nervous because I talk more when I'm nervous anyway. The problem is usually shutting me up. It's all a learning curve.

So I'm thinking...open question and listen for hooks. Closed question to get their attention then plough. Or a mixture of the two. After making the effort to approach I don't like shooting myself in the foot. I'll admit that I still haven't really got this part down yet. I'm relying on luck most of the time (although it always helps). I need to be doing a lot more approaches than I'm doing at the moment to figure out what works best for me.

That's wayyyyy too much effort. I guess. Its hard to give advice because everybody has been through the phase of reading tonnes and all that. I think you just got to lower your standards for a decent conversation; interview questions, what's on your mind etc.

As your base line for what you talk to girls about BUT don't restrict yourself. Doing some improv games with your friends for 30mins a day can't harm you either. Story-tag, 'What's in the box', "Whatcha doing/Top that" etc.

Another one I've heard I cant explain but I can do examples of. Start off with Cat, for example.

"cats are crazy animals. Animals are really lazy. Lazy people are drug addicts. Addicts sleep in homeless shelters". Just go on like that for ages. They allow you to free up your mind more than anything.

But personally, I think what's important is going for it, its sounds basic but if you're like "okay how can I make this happen" then you're going to start saying SOMETHING.

I have a sticking point of being a bit too funny, dickish, joking around with girls atm actually haha.