I have been working on a fair few girls recently and after getting their numbers in the day time have taken lots of them out on dates. Attraction with each was sky high to begin with, however I have blown it with nearly all of them by over-gaming them, in particular with heavy physical contact. I have assumed hard and fast rules were the natural course of action for me in order to 'win the girl'. I have applied physical contact and escalated with them with little regard for the girl's comfort.

And the outcome? They don't want to see me again, as they do not feel comfortable. Something I have also realised is I have become obsessed with trying to kiss them on the first date, regardless of location or social scenario. This again has been ill judged and not calibrated to the situation, rather me trying to move things along faster for my own sake.

It has in all honesty been a superb few weeks of learning for me as I have been doing things, and not just theorising. One of my life-long sticking points has been falling into the friend's zone though, and I feel I have gone too far in the other direction in order to make my intentions known to the girl. I have been afraid of her loosing site of my intentions, and have thus overplayed things. But that's the way it goes, you have to experiment.

In short, I have been trying to force things, when in fact I should just trust that the right course of action will lead me there. Patience is key now, not applying rules for the sake of it. I have to be more conscientious of what the girl is feeling.

Calculation and outcome dependence == failure.

The way I see it "seduction" is all about creating opportunities rather than trying to engineer a specific outcome from a specific meeting/date/whatever.

You create opportunities by emitting a sexual vibe but in a way that is consistent with your general character, ensuring that sex is straight forward logistically (e.g. getting pissed at her/your place watching tv vs being out in public) and being totally nonchalant about what does or does not happen.

On the specific topic of kino, personally I keep it 100% non-sexual until she crosses the line first. Letting a woman think that she is in control of the escalation (when in reality she is being ruthlessly gamed ..) is IMO absolutely golden.

Don't underestimate the importance of right time + right place. Ask your self this question "assuming this girl wants to shag me, how can I set things up so that its as easy and comfortable as possible for her to do so ?". Remember that while blokes tend to plan everything, women are much more impulsive and in the moment so try to ensure that theres a clear logistic route to sex.

Actual example: I met a girl from a web site at a cafe for lunch and was shagging her at her place within an hour. What amazing technique or routine did I use to achieve this ? - I simply ensured that we would be meeting at the the right place (somewhere within 5 mins drive of her house) and the right time (just after she had dropped kids of at school hence her house would be empty for the next 5 hours). At the end of the cafe lunch I said totally casually "hey give us a hug", as I did she raised her mouth clearly inviting to kiss so I did and then just said "back to your place then" and that was that. Another time the hug might have only been just that but the point being if at least the opportunity was there purely because a few simple logistic details on my part.

Last night I read about Japanese architecture all evening (yeah that's right I said architecture, not girls!), and tonight I have been drawing, with a view to doing some painting at the weekend. My spare time is about me now, not the girls. I feel a sense of relief!


Agreed. I have been putting myself under too much pressure to get results in short space of time, and in doing so failing.


This resonates.


Out of interest, what kino/touching do you usually do and how far do you take it before you deem it a line to be crossed? Also why would you not cross that line into sexual territory?

my question

are you currently seeing any girls while these dates are going on ?

Nope. Why's that then?

Its been my experience that if the woman makes the first overtly sexual move, that the chances of it quickly escalating to sex is much higher. It also fits in my my overall style and personality. Touching a girls upper leg qualifies as overtly sexual by my measure of things, also to me its tacky in a sort of desperate-school-boy-on-first-date kind of way, really a million miles away from the sophisticated sexual worldly kind of vibe I go for.

Yeah, I can see why a lot of the girls will have been turned off by my behaviour. I have obviously come across as too pushy or needy... or both! Thus, any attraction I had no matter how strong at first, drained away. Like I mentioned, I have been afraid of falling into the friends zone, as this was a huge problem for me for a long time. Perhaps i have taken it all a little too literally in communicating my intentions to the girls.

What if they make no move sapphire? Do you not escalate physically at all?