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Figured I'll start one of these just to post stuff in.
I'll start off with what prompted my main post in the PUA Chat forum: a meetup with a girl I've always liked in January. I know it was months ago, but feedback or thoughts on this would be appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brief history: I met this girl 9 years ago & always liked her. "Asked her on a date" once only to realise she didn't realise it was a date nor did she realise I fancied her as she met her bf that night and made out with him. She moved away and we saw each other sparingly over the years, exchanging random texts. I tried to get her to meet with me multiple times with no success. There was one night I'm 99% sure she came onto me and offered it to me on a plate in a club and I was so nervous i didn't do anything.... We started texting a lot over last Xmas/New Year & I always try to be flirty with her. She started suggesting we should meet up which is very unlike her. In January theres a story about a couple emailing each other filthy chat in their work place. The women accidently forwards the email to a co-workers announcing the sandwich van has arrived at lunch time, and the story goes all around the city & facebook (known as the sandwich van story) to much hilarity. I text her asking "Not sure if your up to mcuh today but do you fancy a sandwich van? I'm starving!" She replies in hysterics saying she couldn't believe that email, and that her friend cancelled on her for drinks today. She's so bored with nothing to do and could "definitly be done with being rescued from boredom!!!" I reply taking it further pretending I wasn't referencing the email & that all I wanted was to go for a sandwich. She replies telling me to stop joking around & says "Well, going for a sandwich van isn't really the rescue i was looking for :P" I assume she's dropping hints, then tell her she should meet me for a drink if her friend cancelled...she agrees to meet me in a few hours. So we meet & have food, I decide to be spontaneous and have fried Pigeon but I struggle to eat it and she finds this funny, as well as some banter with the waitress which goes down well. I realise when we come to split the bill that I must have went to the ATM, withdrawn money and then probably because i was a bit anxious about meeting her walked off and not picked it up...but I manage to roll with it and laugh it off and she again finds this funny, she pays the whole lot but won't accept my money back when I eventually get to another ATM. We spend the next 3 hours in a bar REALLY connecting....finding we have so much in common which is quite scary & I begin to realise despite liking this girl for the best part of 8 years I probably never really knew her. We talk about gym, work, sex, relationships. I let her ask any question about me and she asks if 2 of our friends we know were the only ones left on Earth, which would I go for. I think she's talking about sex so choose the more party girl of the 2 only to realise she meant as a soul mate, in that case I choose the other girl, our friend who introduced us who's more a settled down type and she seems pleased. We talk more about the difference between people you would love to just sleep with ona night out & what you really look for long term. She asks me more questions where she gives me a choice between 2 answers and i always seem to pick the right one....and they seem strangely related to her (example, she asks if my preference is short brunettes who are naturally pretty without relying on makeup...which is what she is and I agree...) We also hit it off talking about Top gun & Rocky as they are our favourite films and how neither of us like old films. I end up telling her some personal stuff, She tells me how she was bullied at School & prefers smal groups to large crowds (I'm the same for both) & she then tells me shes quite shy/introverted and puts up barriers between her & people & it takes her a while to warm up to them. During this i hold her hand & comment on what she said in an understanding way and after this there's quite a few moments where I'm still holding her hand and we're not really talking....just smiling at each other with eye contact. We've also been talking so much we barely touch our drinks, and have given each other 100% attention, no mobile phones or anything in the way. I honestly feel like we totally connected throughout huge parts of that.....never felt that before it was pretty uplifting. She then goes t the toilet. When she comes back things take a nose dive. All the enrgy and connection vanishes & i feel a bit nervous & convo is strained. There's a few long silences, which I later find out doesn't phase her, i suggest we get more drinks or shots to liven it up but she declines shots. We eventually move to another bar, and i put my arm around her waist and hold her hand on the way - she doesnt knock me off. This new bar has booming loud music and its pretty difficult to talk, again there's no energy & I feel awkward, although I try to have my arm round her at times etc trying to take advantage of the fact we have to lean into each others ears to speak because its so loud. In my awkwardness there's a 15 minutes spell where I just act weird, I can't think of anything to say and she even says I'm acting a "bit odd". I try to explain i feel things took a nose dive & i was worried she wasn't enjoying herself, she looks puzzled and says i worry about things too much. She tells me im acting cryptic and its difficult for her to talk to me if I dont explain what im thinking saying. I eventually pull myself out of the slump and we get into more small talk & laughs, then its time to leave. Again I take her hand and have my arm around her on the way to the taxi queue, its freezing by this point with rain and battering wind. The taxi queue is pretty long and as we stand in it, i pull her to me and we hug for quite a while as the wind is battering our faces; she rests her head into my shoulders and holds onto me tighter. She then asks me why i was acting so weird earlier.....perhaps stupidly I reply that perhaps we'd been out too long together (8.5 hours) & I was getting tired. She gets snnoyed at this saying she doesn't undersrtand as we'd spent the whole night talkign fine and if the night felt that long was I getting bored of her company! I re-assure her thats definitly not the case. We end up having our heads together, and with the wind smackng her hair into her face I move it away and look down at her, we're almost close enough to kiss which prior to the nose dive point I was pretty confident of doing at some point....she looks at me with a meek smile then sticks her head back into my shoulder. I start chatting to a girl behind us, i have a laugh with her & my girl also laughs at this, but eventually she turns my head away from this girl and buries her head into me again. The taxi comes, we get it to hers and I give her a kiss & hug goodbye and onward to my place and the night is over. I know I have to let this go; its in the past. But some simple questions from you guys who are more experienced with women: 1. She's not great with strangers yet she was quite keen to come out. The fact she was asking me all those probing questions and it seems like she described herself to me when guessing my ideal women.....was she interested? 2. End of the day I got nervous toward the end......I have this sickening feeling i blew the whole thing by not going for a kiss in the taxi queue and my chances with her died when we got in the taxi. Would the whole thing have fizzed out purely because I didnt make a move? Thats assuming she even was interested, I dunno. The vibe kinda started dropping at the end of the night so much maybe the kiss was never on...I have a bad feeling i could have had something with her and blew it. |
Kowalski had a great post about what you need.
Its not about getting advice for specific girls and 'what happeneds' , and still much less so about this situation or technique. Its more about mindsets, attitudes, lifestyles, the broad strokes of the action you take. That will get you a lot further, look at Nova's field report thread as to me, it seemed like his growth and success changed as he changed his mindset or took general action rather than working on anything specific. An example would be by telling every hot girl that you think so. Or to decide to go out and chat up girls instead of "Im going to work on Mindy at the work do" or the absolute worst one which is "ill work on opening/negs/tease/" any other completely tiny, unimportant thing during the night out. Also theres a great way to find out if she likes you. Go get her now. Ring her up and meet up, somewhere you can be alone quickly e.g. near your house. You never need to ask people if its still on or does she like me as you can always find out, by having a go! Good luck on your journey, go out and kill it! |
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No, this is definitly over. I've seen her a few times since, cinema and we've text a lot. She's not stupid, she knows I like her, it was 7 months ago. I just want to know if I blew it by inaction and from what I've written there was a realistic chance things could have gone further. This whole thing is the driver behinsd me wanting to change - I don't ever want to let that hapen again. |
Here is the post :)
http://www.puaforums.co.uk/seduction...ishing-xx.html There was a good collection of great posts from this forum but i cant remember where it is, will find it for you. |
I'm pretty sure you did blow the chance a couple of times that night.
Looking into each others eyes while holding hands etc, none of that needs an analysis. As I read it I was thinking "GO, fucking kiss her" Along with all the talk about relationships & sex & stuff, guys with experience would own it. You can't be too hard on yourself though. I've missed out out on dozens of guaranteed lays over the years through being more interested in drugs. Don't keep thinking about it, it's over, it's done, it's gone. |
Saturday 20th July
I was at a friends BBQ/Housewarming. There was around 30 people there, of which 3 were single woman. One of them a good friend, the other is known as a bit of a "bike" & the other I don't know too well. I dunno if its because I'm a bit introverted, but I wasn't even in the mood for going along. Maybe it had something to do with staying up far too late the night before. I was there for about 5 hours before gratiously accepting a lift home. I didn't really have that many meaningful conversations, all I could think about was getting home for most of the day. A few things I've realised from this are: 1. I really need to get out of my own head and try and enjoy myself during the present moment. No wonder I come across as so uptight. 2. There was a point where me and the single girl were sitting along talking for quite a bit, just general chit chat. I should really have put more effort into the conversation....but I just wasn't in the mood. At one point we both realised we were close to being in the same city for somethign next month & she looked slightly disapointed we would miss each other - i should have pushed here for better conversation or even her number but it never even occured to me until i got home. 3. Not PU reletaed, but i missed a good opportunity in general to socially converse with others and expand my conversation skills. Overall, I think any kind of change with me is going to take quite some time - this is in total contrast when I was out talking to random strangers in town a couple of weeks back - i was a lot more positive and outgoing whereas yesterday i was pretty negative, not in the mood, and missed an opportunity to push my comfort zone with that girl. |
No massive amount of change is going to come overnight and not without a great deal of effort. You're making positive steps though, you've become aware of the journey required and you've begun to step outside your own mindset and observe your attitude. Keep at it mate.
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Saturday 27th July
Bit difficult to remember all of this as was almost a week ago (I should really try and update these more quickly). I nipped into town during the day for a few things & tried to take the opportunity to talk to more people as I went about my day, however I was in a bit of a hurry so was more focused on getting what I needed and getting home. I spoke to a girl in John Lewis when looking for a shirt and commented on her pretty bright flowery dress and told her I liked it and that not many women would pull that off but she gets away with it because she is hot. Yeah.......I said that, not like me at all, it just came out during the convo and I had a total cringe moment and felt mega awkward. But she laughed, went a bit red and said "I bet you say that to all the girls you meet". We spoke a bit more and it wasn't till she turned to one side I saw the engagement ring. Never mind. We spoke a bit more which was pretty light hearted, probably for about 5 minutes. Spoke briefly with the girl serving me in Boots, initially she over charged me then kept putting my card in the reader the wrong way so I joked that she was trying to rip me off then deliberately putting my card in wrong because she didn't want me to leave & wanted me to hang around and she thought it was quite funny. Saw 2 random folk walking through our main shopping centre dressed as Darth Vader & a Storm Trooper so I shouted "Don't think you'll find the droids your looking for in here". He took his toy light sabre out and came at me, randomly the storm trooper gave me his........and I stood in a shopping centre having a play light sabre fight with a random guy in a costume with loads of folk looking on, before getting a photo with them & leaving. Was served by a cute Irish girl with awesome glasses at the optician and its probably my worst experience of trying to talk to someone (since I came on this forum) so far - couldn't get a word out of her. just yes/no answers, no smile......nothing. She was just literally focused on her job. Oh well...... In the evening I had a party, can't really remember much as the drinks were pretty cheap, and thuus pretty smashed (woke up at 6am, fully clothed with my shoes, under my covers with the TV & light on and a sandwich stuck to my face...) but what I do remember is socialising without a care in the world. I deliberately made a point of meeting and greeting all the females there (99% of them all friends or partners of friends) with a hug and a kiss on the cheek. Wednesday 31st August Nothing really major here but something interesting to me. Was out for a meal to say farewell to friends who live abroad back briefly for visiting. Again, greeted my female friend with a hug & a kiss on the cheek. At the end of the night I got huge big hugs goodbye and a kiss on the lips (she's married) with her husband joking looks like she wants to go home with me instead of him - she played along and kissed me again; it was all in total fun. The reason I put that in is I've always had this fear that whenever I greet/close proximity etc with woman I have this fear they will recoil/think I'm ugly/push me away etc - it probably stems from being bullied by girls when I was younger. I've also always been aware whenever I even go in for a friendly hug and kiss on the cheek its ME who gets really nervous in fear of any of the above happening. It never has since School, and that would be around 8 women if not more I greeted in the same way those 2 days with nothing bad happening. Even more so my married friend... I know its all friends etc but maybe I'm not really that grotesque after all.......and all this stuff is all in my head. I think the big problem I have is all in my head and the only thing holding me back is me. Probably lack of self confidence/self esteem and a poor image of myself, this is something I'll start a topic about later as I think its quite important. I'm also out again tomorrow shopping/socialising so I'll try update quicker. |
As a general update:
Guess I've kind of "forgotton" about trying to improve myself with woman the last couple of weeks; I've had a few social activites on with friends and within that group all the females are either taken or really good friends where nothing would ever happen. However, i have stumbled upon something: I'm not sure where this came from, but I've started showing gratitude toward people, being a bit more humble, letting my guard down and genuinly showing an interest in others. The results have been mental. I've had texts from 14 different people, male & female over the last fortnight. FB comments and notifications etc, its a bit over whelming. I'm ashamed to admit, beginning to ralise I'm a very selfish inward person. For some reason i have a big ego and I'm a perfectionist. These aren't good qualities. I've always thought I'm a decent, genuine person. Not strictly true. i WANT to be - I've just never showed it. I don't let my full emotions out because of fear of showing them. I never realised how needy & desperate I come off. I've been texting this girl who is a solid 8. Decided rather than try to make her laugh, and be cocky & pretend I'm the man I'd just chat to her, be pleasant and try and make the convo about her...just go with the flow with no outcome other than to have a good conversation. As the convo went on theres been a few natural opportunities to fit in a few flirty comments. She's started saying i should meet up with her more when I'm in town, started asking me when I'm next out......this is all over text, a girl I;ve known & shes known me for about 6 year. Thats insane....... I think I'm so stuck in my own head, so internal with my own thoughts, fear and worriesd that I don't see whats going on outwith me, i don't appreciate and take note of whats going on externally, or really LISTEN & ACKNOLWEDGE other people. Another example is a female friend of 10 years, she always has me round her flat, always cooks for me, I just turn up and expect it as standard. A bit scary but I went out on a limb yesterday and told her I'm taking her out for a meal in the next few weeks as I'm really grateful for what she does for me and i take her for granted. She was over the moon and so happy....she's never reacted toward me like that before. She's a 100% friend but when i took her out she was delighted and we had a great time. I might sound a bit mental or on something as I type this but its like I look outside and everythings still the same, but its looking like a different world. i think the person i am is just a mask thats been created to cover up the real person beneath all the unplesantries I've experienced. Would make sense why i always seem in conflict with myself & get frustrated if I'm not truly "being myself" which I've not been doing. I've been trying to be this outgoing, cocky, extroverted cool guy to fit in so people will like me. I'm an introvert; i can still be outgoing - just because I'm not the life and soul of the party doesn't make me uncool perhaps....maybe theres hope for me yet. i was out with friends last night, stone cold sober (I'm on antibiotics for 3 months = no drink) and had an amazing time. My looks and height may be related to my problems with woman but I'm definitly convinced the main problem is my mindset and being stuck in my own head with my own thoughts all the time which leads to a lack of confidence. Focussing on external factors & trying to (something I find hard) living in the moment or present I think is a big thing which could help me. |
This is very encouraging, great stuff man.
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A lot of your post chimed with me and my experiences.
I used to think: 'I never get compliments from anyone'. Then one day someone asked me the question 'how often do you give compliments to other people?'. I realised I never did. It made me realise how wrapped up in my own thoughts I really was and it was holding me back. Your going in the right direction. |
Even something as simple as the way you compliment someone or thank them for something. Anyone can see "Cheers, thanks" or "Your jacket looks nice" and not really put any effort into the comment or say it without any meaning.
Guess it comes back to the whole "Its not what you say its how you say it" - show genuine sincerity & compassion/emotion. Obviously when it comes to women you won't want to get carried away with that - but for example out with friends on Saturday I took the time to tell a friend I liked the way she'd done her hair (she is pretty hot and popular with guys) and her face went bright red and she was so pleased. If I can figure out how to do that in a more seductive/confident/manly way I think I'm onto a winner. |
Yes, people can tell if you really mean the compliment or your just saying it out of politeness or because you think you should. When you really mean it, they'll get the feeling that you're taking a genuine interest in them.
Try it out on some women you feel you want to say it to and see what reaction you get. Don't try to figure out in advance how to say it - just say it. The confidence will come later after the practice. That's the way it always works. |
Saturday September 7th
A friend of mine regularly DJ's and hosts an all day event once a month which ran on Sat. The fact that I can't drink for 3 months and my car is off the road made me not want to go but I dragged myself along. I'm glad I did...... I'd been there a while when ended up next to a girl I don't know that well; always perceived her as a bit of a bitch, bit up herself, bit of a party girl. We made some polite small talk which as usual with me and her doesn't go far...So I decided to push things a bit. I genuonly complimented some jewelry she was wearing and to my amazement she opened up, we spoke about what she was wearing briefly....then before you know it we spoke about her recent holiday, how great it was, how shes gutted to be home, her current job, her last job blah blah blah with a few laughs and jokes inbetween and I was totally amazed - always thought she was an uptight cow. Nothing really flirty or sexual but I tried to keep eye contact, listen to her & keep the convo about her and smile & I swear a few times there was some "we shared a moment" eye contact (or maybe not) Throughout different parts of the night we bumped into each other a few times and shared a couple of private jokes and when up dancing I danced with her a few times...looking back I could have pushed it but I didn't, might try harder next time. Randomly saw a girl I used to make out with in my teens that haven't seen in about 15 years, spookily had just become friends on fb about 2 weeks ago, she was totallly smashed. We spoke, joked, danced and had a god laugh and I got a few friendly kisses and hugs....but eventually I left because she was wasted and I was geting annoyed. Danced with another wasted random I don't even know - definitly a 10 but also completely off her face on drink/drugs and definitly out of my league, she wouldnt have danced with me if she was sober and I could barely understand what she was saying. Loads more dancing...loads of pics of me on fb the next day dancing, loads of pics of me with just women (the fact we had a 10/3 ratio in favour of women in our group probably helps)...you wouldn't have thought I hadn't had a drop of booze by the pics! Quite a few comments of me being a "ladies man" because of the pics also..... If bitch girl opening up to me was random, this was even weirder: I may have mentioend on here before I was bullied by girls at School? Heard a girl shouting my name; it was the one who caused me most of the grief at that time. Hadn't seen her in years....she asked me if I'd been working out, told me I looked really good, i got a friendly kiss and a hug, she told me how great it was to see me....this is a girl who used to give me panic attacks about going to School and had me in tears for constantly taunting me for being ugly....weird....she was pretty genuine with the above as well.... We moved to a club, the place was dead. One of my female friends ex's turned up which causes her a lot of grief and I spent a lot of time consoling her and making sure she was alright. I also spoke to another girl i know who's had a rough time of late and I was just listenign to her talking, I was just genuinly being nice and I complimented her a few times (she's a solid 8+ I'd say). She then asked me if I'd been working out (WTF is with everyone thinking I've been wokring out??) and after I'd complimented her she said if she didn't know better she'd think I was chatting her up...I told her that maybe I am chatting her up but if I was it would be a feeble attempt; I'd have better moves than that. She laughed and told me she'd like to maybe see those moves some day before going off to dance with her friends. I went back to my car to go home and on the way randomly saw the girl from my teens in the 3rd paragraph looking a bit more sober but struggling for a taxi home. I offered her a lift. It wasn't a long journey but we spoke about the night we just had, the last 15 years, friends we still speak to, jobs etc. When we got to her driveway she said she'd love to chat longer & she'd invite me in but she has to fly to Dubai the next day so gives me her mobile number. I go to give her a polite friendly kiss on the cheek and hug goodbye, but she doesn't turn her head, puts her arms round me and I end up making out with her. In fairness she's still pretty drunk but care - I'll take that. I've since discovered she keyed her number in wrong, but I've found and added her on fb. Thats one hell of a night for me and this post is pretty long, so I'll split this up and put some thoughts in the next post.... |
That was probably one of the best nights of my life. When I got home I probably sat up for around an hour just thinking the whole night through. Did all that actually happen, and how did it happen? To summarize:
Bitch girl: I don't think I'd ever really tried to talk to her before, I just auto assumed she was a bitch from her vibe and didn't bother with her. We ended up getting on really well & she's since added me on fb. Girl from the past: That was just random, but i used to make out with her when I was younger and haven't seen her since I was about 15. She was wasted, but she almost invited me in she gave me her number 1 digit short, and she made out with me - not the other way round (this is what used to happen tio me when I was younger - i never made a move, it was always the girl who iniated). Bully from School: Maybe she felt guilty about the past but she seeemd totally genuine, if she thought I was ugly that's deffo not the case now. My interaction with her almost means more then making out with the girl above - it blows away a lot of my bad history and how I perceive my looks. Talking with friends in the club: The reason I put in about my friend upset about her ex is the whole time we were talking she had her arm round me/on my shoulder and touched me multiple times whenever she was gesturing to make a point. She's a 10 and always gets hot guys and is mega popular. Granted she was a bit drunk and upset about her ex but she can't think I'm that bad before us having all that physical contact. I got a huge hug from her when i told her I was going home as well. As for the other girl, it seemed like she was trying to flirt with me. Overall i don't think I need much more proof that its nothing to do with my looks. I'd still say I look below average but I can't use it as an excuse for holding me back anymore; if anything I need to start believing I'm good looking even if its false. I totally had the whole night living in the moment - I think dancing for a lot of the night just enjoying myself and listening to the music helped....and the fact I was out with a squad of females who wanted to pose for photos every 5 mins didn't do too badly either. This re-inforces my belief my problem is when I'm stuck in my head thinking negative thoguhts/over analysing - its all to do with how I think and perceive myself. If I can start forcing outward not inward and change these perceptions I think it would go a long way. As I posted earlier in this thread I've started trying to be more humble and genuine and taking an interest in people; i did this with most of the women that night and I think the results speak for themselves. I think I've been misled by PUA crap I've read telling me I need to be cocky and funny and throw negs and be sexual and blah blah blah blah. I'm an introvert. I'm a genuine honest guy, probably a tad too nice for my own good. I'm not an ass kisser though or the type that buys flowers etc and at times I can be a bit cheeky for my own good, or try to hard to be funny/impress when I'm nervous. I'm sure a lot of you on here are pretty alpha, outgoing guys. Thats who i've been trying to be and it gets me nowhere because its not who I am - so why am I bothering to be fake? the last few weeks, acting "as myself" and showing and giving compliemnts/genorisity is getting me so much further and making me feel better. Again i do get it: you can't keep giving women compliments and being the nice guy because theres nothing sexual or attractive about that. But when I use this behaviour honestly i have better interactions - maybe its to do with the bullshit detector women havel in the past if I'm being fake they can see something is not right whereas now I'm just being "me". I'm definitly on to something here - if I can just tune in on how to flip this over to get some concrete results whether its a number/kiss.sex or whatever. As a quick note I also noticed quite a few guys hitting on my female friends that night. None of them were successful but none of the rehections they got were harsh at all - some of the girls even played along or bantered with them and seemed to enjoy it. So overall, I'm still 31, I'm still a virgin. Technically I've got 1 phone number and 1 make out since I came on here. In terms of concrete success I'd still say I'm at 0%. In terms of general comfort and belief I'd say things look like they are beginning to change :) |
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Are you able to expand on comment on this any further, or is it just something I'll start projecting as I become more confident? I've tried to act sexual before, but as a result of being nervous, awkward and not confident I end up coming across like a creepy weirdo instead - probably "tryig too hard". |
Thursday 19th September
The new canteen girl at work is always really friendly to me, always makes a point of saying hi, asking how i am and how my days going. Noticed this for weeks - however at work I have my work hat on, always thinking about what I need to do for the day & try not to spend too much time talking to folk if I'm away from my desk, its not that i don't take her on, but I don't really have time to talk. She also looks a bit rough, I'd say she's ok but not my type. i saw her outside smoking, when I'm out I do it to get away from my desk and get 5 mins peace. I saw her standing there and thought I should go over and speak to her but my head started doing this: "I'm too busy" "I'm not in the mood" "I don't know what to say" "This will be weird" + about another 4-5 excuses. I burst out laughing in my own head - i just realised....I was coming up with so many excuses not to do this! So i thought, as a test - lets just see how many more excuses my head generates not to talk to her and I stood and let them flow and its crazy what my brain was saying to me not to talk to her haha!! So then I tried something different; what reasons would I have to go and speak to her: "She seems to want to talk to me" "Its just her and me here" "Its a nice day, weather is good" "She might want to talk to me" And a few more...... Its amazing how you can change that train of thought if you you can stand back and be aware of those thoughts, take a minute and look at them from a different angle. At the end of the day I saw her finishing her shift. She had a leather jacket and a short tartan skirt on as she walked out the door and i thought "Fuck yeah, maybe I would have some of that". Maybe I'll try to speak to her more - but what i experienced in the above was a bit of an eye opener. |
Saturday 21st Sptember
Had a house warming for friends i went to Uni with, didn't really know much people there, i could only stay an hour. As my friends were being house guests I spent a lot of time on my own just watching football scores. Everyone else there was friends. I felt it might be awkward if I just went to speak to people I didn't know.......but in hindsight I should have just done it - its actually more awkward not talking to people then it is talking to people. Then went for a birthday meal, arrived early with one girl already there. We spoke for ages before others arrived and I never realised till now how negative and self conshus (sp) this girl is. When we left to go to the next bar I offered her a lift and ended up taking one of her other friends who I always thought was a cold bitch - but she spoke away fine. Went to a bar & one girl seemed pretty interesed in talking to me although I think she's a bit weird. The convo was just completely random, she talks really fast, burned my arm with her fag & knocked a drink over - almost seemed like she was really jittery & nervous round me. Also spent a lot of time spekaing to some guy about his job and how it relates to mine, was interesting. Up dancing, was dancing next to a girl I saw last week, felt like she was motioning for me to dance with her as she did last week, but I felt a bit nervous so never did. I had a scarf on which I wrapped around my hand like a Ghurka/head band and was just dancing about like a fool; some other girl took it off me and ran off with it - I eventually went to get it back - she wrapped it round me and started pulling me toward her, down my lower back and pulled our hips together and we were getting pretty close face wise....I didn't really react so she put the scarf back on my head, ruffled my hair and walked off. Was she totally in to me? 4 women were trying to drag me onto the dance floor pulling my arms lieka tug of war but I was tired and takign a break, I wedged my feet around the table stand to stop them pulling me, but one felt my arse which made me jump and release my feet and I got carted off to dance again. Saw a hen party where some girl said she couldn't find her penis (penis straw), i said "I totally hate it when that happens", she told me to fuck off and all her mates started giving me abuse.....I just laughed. Spoke to some guys at the bar from the navy on the ngiht out, they are going back to Afghanistan for another tour soon & I spoke to them sabout how scary/dificult it must be etc - was a good convo. Some random girl in a red dress brushed past me on the stairs and said "Hi", she was kinda cute. I felt like an ice cube hit me, my friend from the meal threw it at me. I opened my mouth and beckoned her to get one in my mouth, before I knew it 3 femelae friends all pelting me with ice cubes trying to get one in my mouth, never caught any of them though. I realised toward the end of the night that any nervousness or anxiety I felt was COMPLETELY gone, I usually have a tightness round my motuh when I smile - my mouth felt totally relaxed. I was stone cold sober and having an amazing night. As i was gettign ready to go home someone nudged into me as they walked past. It was the scarf girl from before. She looked at me with a smile, raise of the eye brows and a nod of the head (like if you see someone in the street you know and you acknolwedge them with a "alright mate") - I guess she was into me from before then, all i probably had to do earlier was put an arm round her and lean in. Saw weird girl agian from before and we got into a convo about anal sex, shitting in mouths and lesbians. She was realy jittery & talking really fast again. Weird....... Another night of stone cold sober awesomeness. i feel like I have some kind of state of awareness not only about myself but how others are acting toward me. Why have I neevr noticed this before? Pretty sure at least 3 girls were interested in me last night - I'm a bit over whelmed. |
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One is a girl who works in the canteen and who I only had very business -like brief exchanges with when she was serving me food, taking the money, etc. Quite regularly we were both standing outside smoking, no one else around. She was browsing her phone and I didn't say anything (same list of excuses). One day when I was feeling confident I just stood looking straight at the top of her head (she was sitting me standing). When she looked up from her phone and made eye contact I just smiled and said "hi, how's it going, you alright?" Then we had a 10 minute convo that we both enjoyed. I just do not understand why I hadn't done that before. Couldn't push through the fear I guess. --------- Girl two is one who I find more physically attractive than the canteen girl. Something foreign and mysterious about her too. She is always out smoking with her girlfriend when I see her. This is my main excuse for not talking to her. But there have been two times where she was on her own. The first time she was stood with her back to me, which I read as body language for her not wanting to talk. But If I had spoke I'm sure she would have turned around. I'm realising it was just another irrational excuse for not doing it. On the other occasion I was walking toward her and she gave me a good 3 second stare. To me she was saying "come talk to me". I didn't but I can't remember even having an excuse that time. It's like my legs took on a life of their own and directed me past her to another part of the smoking area. I beat myself up pretty bad after that one. Since then I managed to have some small talk with her in the lift as we were both going in one morning. But it didn't allow enough time to chat properly. |
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Monday 7th October
Completely forgot about writing this up, difficult to remember it all. Decided to go Speed Dating. Not because I'm looking for the love of my life but because it might be fun, I'm forced to talk to women & I went once a year ago & absolutely loved it. After signing up for this I noticed via fb that a group of girls I'm friends with are going (they mistakenly created a public event), but I don't tell them I'm going. So I turn up, casually glide up to one of my friends and say "So, come here often?" Cue loads of hysterics and me telling them I knew all along they were going. So Speed Dating starts, to save time here's the bullet points:
The event ends & we hang around for some after drinks. It becomes really obvious that girl 15 that I liked is into one of the other guys there and to be fair he's probably the hottest guy there and a really decent bloke - they end up leaving together. The friend of mine i sort of liked also goes to a different bar with a guy she's hit it off with. After a brief while I go home. Overall a kind of "in the middle" night. 17 women, subtract 4 who i was friends with (although 5 friends one which i do like) that leaves 13 women of which i only had interest in 3 of them, one of which was too young, the other perhaps the nest of a poor bunch and the other a friend. Pretty disapointing. Most of the conversations revolved around speed dating itself. In actual fact it felt like I was meeting a load of women i was friends with as opposed to girl 15 which was disapointing. But I'm trying to take positives from it. I wasn't nervous in the SLIGHTEST. Not a bit. Maybe its slightly false as I knew 5 girls there and speed dating is a bit of a setup, but I felt perfectly fine, although slightly dangerous because I sort of feel like I was so laid back there was no energy about me. Despire my lack of interest in the bulk of the women there none of the conversations were bad & I never struggled to find anything to say at any point. I also didn;t make a big deal about spilling that girls drink but she definitly wasn;t impressed. Quite disapointing overall I never really hit it off with anyone, in stark contrast to when i did this a year ago and left absoultely buzzing and loved it. But as per above paragraph I'll just try to remember the positives, move on and give it a try next month in any case. |
Saturday 12th October
Out for a meal for an old Uni female friends birthday. 4 of her friends from Glasgow are up and I kind of know everyone there and the meal goes fine. Its what happens when we go to the next bar that was pretty..........overwhelming. We end up playing charades in the bar upstairs and I always seem to end up as the actor, as well as going completely over the top with my impressions which has everyone in knots. I've known my Uni friend for 12 years and have met her personal friends at various times over the years when they are up in the city so i do know them, but not amazingly well. But I have interactions with 2 of them which go something like this: Girl 1: We get onto the subject of why I'm single & I tell her its because I'm terrible with women & conscious about my looks. She recalls a night out years ago when i was being flirty with her and told her she was hot (I don't remember this). She said she was kinda into me that night and thought I liked her, but then changed her mind because I never made a move & she was kinda waiting for me to do something and got disapointed I didn't. The only thing she didn't buy was how I was acting, a little too hard to impress & full of myself. She says that felt odd because I come across as a genuine guy so why was I pretending to be someone I wasn't? As for the looks thing she says she's never thought I was ugly and that from a womans point of view looks/height shouldn't matter. She also points out the bf's of the other girls there aren;t particularly tall or handsome, soemthing I never noticed until she pointed this out. In her opinion i just need to be a bit more forward without being sleazy - she tells me she reckons I'm scared of what I could achieve if I was successful, there's no reason at all why you couldn;t get a girlfriend. Girl 2: I always thought me and her had a weird vibe, like she was a bit cold toward me. This was re-inforced earlier this year when we spent a week in Chicago together as part of a group. But last night she was totally speaking away to me, laughing/joking and going on about Chicago and asking to see my pictures etc. Was the coldness all in my head? As I'm not drinking, I decide to call it a ngiht when they move onto a club. I get hand shakes etc from all the guys and friendly hugs & kisses from all the girls. When it comes to girl 1 I go to do the same and she says "Oh for Gods sake I'm not accepting a cheek" and kisses me on the lips (she;s got a boy friend back home). She's a bit pissed by this point and me and her are kind of left standing on our own as everyone heads off to the club and she says "Rememeber everything I said tonight. Your not a bad looking guy, your a decent guy. Stick to your strengths, none of this cocky full of it shite. Just be yourself.......but be a bit more forward, you need to show your intent. Don't be scared - i don't even think your scared, I think your worried about what to do next if you get some success" I'll repeat that I barely know this girl, I've met her off and on in the last 12 years. With my head spinning a bit at the conversations I've had with her tonight I go home. |
I started this thread 3 months ago. Although I've not had any "results" with the exception of a drunk girl making out with me, I've just skimmed back through the entire thread:
1. The girl I was crazy about, that led me to this forum. The reason things never worked out was because I got nervous and never made a move. 2. I've not really done much cold approaching but on the occasions I started random convo's with strangers nothing bad happened. 3. Being more humble, genuine & taking an interest in others completely changes my interactions for the positive. 4. I commented around August I began to think my looks and my height weren't a big deal - the problems are in my head and my perceptions of me and how people look at me. 5. 2 big nights out I had sober were awesome, I really enjoyed myself by being in the moment and there's a good chance 3 women were interested in me. 6. I wasn't nervous in the slightest at speed dating. 7. Had a pretty in depth conversation with a girl I know who gave me some pretty positive feed back. I'm now 100% convinced there's nothing wrong with my looks and my height. Looking back I've not really had any bad interactions at all! (With the exception of spilling a drink at speed dating and a group of hen party girls telling me to fuck off both of which I found funny). It's always been ME that's the problem and the way I think, and perceive things. The only bad thing is point 1, the girl I liked I messed up with - but there;s no way that outcome would ever have been any different as I wasn;t confident enough. I think I've had plenty good interactions with women. I think its time to stop just having interactions and start being more direct - whether its a phone number, a make out or gosh darn it even though I'm a virgin, sexy time. I've learned a lot and become a lot more self aware in the last 3 months, but I'm not going to get anywhere standing still so I need to start pushing this to the next stage. That sounds daunting, but bizarrly when I think about these things possibly happening I actually feel kind of excited about it, and it makes me smile :) I'm also pretty much done with the therapist I was seeing, I've learned some useful mental stuff from him in terms of your mind, confidence and perceptions. But I think my next session, or maybe the one after next will be the last. |
She is bang on T money dude. Don't be someone you are not; be authentic.
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Being pissed has probably allowed her to speak honestly. What she told you could help dispel any limiting beliefs you've been holding onto about your attractiveness to women. Just work on the assumption that you are good enough as you are and be a bit more forward like she said.
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Friday 22nd November
Had a mixology night with my work. Basically a night where you learn how to make cocktails. Its definitly a female thing, as there were 30 of us there, only 3 were guys.... I wasn't really in the mood for going, long story issues with my car meant I had to borrow my Mums which meant I couldn't drink.....the irony of going to a cocktail night without drinking. I arrived and one of the guys in my team was already at a table full of women so I joined him. We sat & made general small talk, a girl to my left was pretty cute & I thought the girl in front of me was pretty cool. The girl at the far end of the table was HOT & I didn't recognise her from work. Usually when I'm out I'll take notes on my phone to remind me of stuff that happened, I didn't do that this time so its difficult to remember everything. Whilst we were waiting for our turn to make a drink I got talking to the cute girl from my table, she had all in one tight tartan dress thing on which showed off her curves which caught my eye. She totally seemed like she wanted to talk to me, there was nothing really exciting that stands out about the convo but I noticed she touched me on the shoulder or the arm quite a few times.....it wasn't until she told me she was an apprentice in her department, doing the math in my head that makes her about 19-20 which is jailbait in my book, she looked older than that! I shrugged it off and just kept talking to her and must have been with her for about 20 mins before I got called to make a cocktail. I made my drink then re-joined my colleagues. Someone found a box of stuff to where as part of the event, so before you know it I started alternating between wearing a top hat, a feather boa & a feathery scarf thing (suppose thats peacocking then.....) which was a good laugh and got some attention from the other women there. I spoke a bit with the cool girl from my table but was difficult as she was constantly on her phone or talking to her other friends. i then saw the HOT girl from before. Turns out she is the daughter of one of the women from my work & doesn't even work for my company. Unfortunatly, I was a bit overawed at how hot she was....she was totally wow. It was at this point that i then realised the negative mood I was in i mentioned at the start of the post had gone, same as before, no tightness round my mouth or anything and I felt totally relaxed. So fuck it, I decided ti try & flirt with hot girl a bit, she asked to make the strongest drink they had, i took a small sip & right enough it nearly bloew my head off. I made some comments about i bet how she likes a drink & she can get wild on a night out etc. and she was laughing back, keeping eye contact with me and like the cute girl before seemed totally fine talking to me. The money was running out on my car parking so I ran back to feed the meter, unfortunatly when i returned hot girl had left. The group was breaking up so i went to another bar with my colleagues. There were two 10's sitting next to us & I watched as some older guy went over and started talkign to them/chatting them up. It was clear they didn't want his company and he left.....the women then started laughing & taking the piss out of him. Not sure what possessed me, but I got up off my seat, went over to them and said "Do you know that guy, I thought he was your boyfriend?" (obviously joking). Straight away I knew this wasn't going to be a good interaction; the smile vanished from the girls face & the convo went a bit like this: Girl: No, he's not. Can I help you? Me: I just thought I'd come and say hey. Where have you guys been tonight? Girl: Why do you want to know, thats none of your business Me: (Smiling) Thats a bit harsh isn't it, just making conversation Girl: (Looking bored) Listen, I'm not interested. How about you just go away, there's some hot guys at the bar there we're waiting on & your going to scare them away. Me: (Still trying to be laid back smiling) How do you mean your not interested? I'm.... Girl: (Interupting): Would you just go and fuck off? Of course your interested, half the guys in this place want a piece of us. Do you really think you have a chance with us (turns to her friend whos texting on her phone laughing at this). I'm waiting for those guys at the bar, so just run along now little boy. She laughs & so does her mate, I feel pretty crippled by this so I just say fair enough, enjoy your ngiht & go back to my table. its obvious from where I'm sitting they're trying to get the attention of some guys at the bar, which they eventually do. The guys come over, buy them drinks & they are all laughing, joking etc. Eventually the guys come over with some champagne & the girls are lapping it up. The guys have probably been with them for about 45 mins when the girls say bye to the guys, and up and leave. The guys look pretty frustrated/shocked. One of the guys goes out for a smoke, I go out myself and happen to make small talk with him. He says him & his mates are pissed off at them because they reckon those girls were just up themselves, looking for drinks and attention and called them stuck up sluts. They were trying to find out where they were going next & trying to get their numbers and he said they were just giving cryptic answers. In fairness he's probably right, guess I was just unlucky they were bitches. i don't actually feel that bad getting "rejected", I knew right away when I first spoke to her it wasn't going to end well. At least I went and spoke to them i guess. |
I can't believe looking on here my last update was over 5 weeks ago. Since then I've only had 3 nights out; 1 night where I wasn't really in the mood & nothing really to talk about, another where it was the 1st time I'd drank in 3 months & I don't remember a thing, and the above. Recently most of my time has been spent sorting out car issues, some stuff at home & looking for a new job. I had some thoughts a while back I never got round to posting though:
Whether your introverted or extroverted shouldn't mean anything. Introverts seem to get some negative deal because they are not as common but I really need to stop saying "I'm an introvert" because it just sounds negative. The only thing perhaps with being introverted is that although I would say I'm pretty intelligent, I tend to overthink things and struggle to just flow with being in the moment. Any isues or problems I have are definitly in my head. Its fuck all to do with how tall i am or how I look, it just boils down to a lack of confidence & belief. I'm going to have to start being a lot more forward with women instead of pincy pansy small talk. Granted I've had some great interactions since I started documenting them on here & I'm fairly happy with that. I'd say I've also become a lot more "self aware" of whats going on when I'm interacting with women, both about them, the situation & me. I still have this big problem with kino and showing my true intentions. i think thats why at times when I'm interacting with a girl i like i feel a bit of conflict. As I've mentioned before, i am a pretty honest genuine guy.....but when I'm having a nice friendly conversation I wonder if I'm getting a bit twitchy because after a while I don't really want to have a nice friendly convo; i want to tell them I think they're hot, I want to make it obvious to them I have some forward intent. Definitly still struggling with trying to come across as more forward or more sexual. The problem I have witht his as I'm not confident at doing it, i think when I do so I'm just going to end up coming across as weird or creepy. I read on another forum what you should do when interacting with a woman your interested in you should just ask yourself: "What would a man do here?" it sounds pretty logical but not as straight forward. I mean, this whole thing isn't rocket science is it? There's obviously a lot more to it, but the black and white of things are: 1. Start a conversation, it doesn't really matter what you say 2. Smile, keep good eye contact, listen to what they say 3. Speak and move slowly. Touch them where appropriate 4. Be light hearted, laid back and funny/tease like, flirty 5. Ask for their number, go in for a kiss, take them home That's really the just of it, isn't it? There's nothing really rocket science or something special I need to do is there? |
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On your point number 5. Sometimes I wonder if going for the number is the easy option. I am sure a lot 'natural' guys wouldn't bother asking for a number, they'd just take the girl home and fuck her. |
I think I'm just going to (try) and be pretty direct off the bat. I'm a bit confused because you read that your never supposed to make it totally obvious your interested in someone or comment on their physical appearance.
I'm wondering if straight from the word go if I just tell them I like their dress/hand bag/I think they look hot and just be straight up forward it might be easier. Its probably a lot more risky.......but it saves faffing about pretending to be friends etc. Might even come across as more genuine as starting off being friendly & trying to shape things the other way. At least the girl is under no illusions right form the start what my intentions are. Might be a good thing; some women maybe like a guy who is straight up and doesn't hide his intentions. |
I totally get this confusion. One the one hand you hear ‘show disinterest’, but then on the other ‘be direct’. You need to just try out these things and work out what works best for you. With me, I love being quite sexual and direct as soon as I meet them. I will flirt and show disinterest, but that comes later. What you say is pretty insignificant, it’s mainly communicated through your voice tone, eye contact and body language.
But anyway, for yourself, try go in communicate this through your words, tell them you think they’re cute/pretty/beautiful/sexy, etc. Do it 100 times, then see how you feel about it all. |
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But that's probably because your extremely confident & believe in what your doing. There is also the issue that you may be pretty good looking which helps (although I'm not going to use looks as an excuse). It's something I've been thinking about for a while now; I'm having plenty of friendly interactions with women but I'm beginning to hit a wall and I'm getting a bit fed up of having nice pleasant conversations now. I'd like to try take things further. The fear I have of doing this is that I'm going to come across like a creep/weirdo/sleaze as a result of not being confident enough....women will latch onto this lack of confidence and see through it. That's where the whole projection of body language and non verbal cues comes from. |
I think with a lot of this stuff verbal and non-verbal there's a very fine line between what works and what doesn't in a particular context. It's very subtle. A lot of it depends on the intent, congruence and core confidence behind it. Appearance is quite a small factor compared to these other ones imo.
If you're thinking that you're going to come across as creepy, then that's probably the way it will come across. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. On the other hand if you're comfortable with your own sexuality and confident in expressing it to a woman then saying exactly the same thing could seem attractive rather than creepy. The same goes for kino. But the more you go out and do it the more comfortable you'll become with seeing yourself that way. I think you're like me, you've got some unwiring to do. Some of it might need a jackhammer taken to it. The equivalent of the jackhammer is putting yourself out there and trying different things, no matter how uncomfortable it feels at first. I'm quite a big fan of innuendo at the moment. You can bring sex into the convo that way and it can be as subtle as you want to make it. But it reveals what's on your mind. No need to overdo it either, you only need to communicate the sexual part sandwiched between two bits of boring convo. Don't worry, she'll pick up on it. Quite extreme example, probably only for the pros but the PUA Jeffy said he would sometimes drop into the convo "I'll fuck you in the ass in the toilets" then quickly move onto to some normal bit of conversation. Like the verbal equivalent of flash frames. Men get these thoughts, you have to be comfortable with that and not think being a nice guy is all there is to your identity. It's not. You can be a bad ass as well. With me it comes out when I'm drunk. |
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I agree in what Nova is saying and what a lot of successful guys say, which is pretty much to go out lots and try different things. Eventually you'll develop your own approach. I was thinking this today at work, how easy my job is now and comparing it to years ago when I found software development really hard. I just kept pushing myself and kept failing but I eventually got good at it. It's the same with anything, I guess with women's it's more scary, ego is on the line. I am pretty sure the girls I've recently been in contact with have all gone cold because I didn't show enough intent. I actually am pleased they went cold on me. Now I know what I was doing was not working so I have to adapt. I am really going to push myself to be more direct. |
Truth is I'm scared.
There, I admit it. There's a saying "What would you do if you weren't scared?" and its so true. This isn't just to do with women. I've been saying to myself there's things I want to do for years & I never do them: 1. I'm scared to try & stop smoking in case I can't manage without them. 2. I'm scared to go to the gym in case I don't manage it or look like a fool. 3. I'm scared to look for a new job because I'm worried no one will employ me. 4. I'm scared to try things with woman in case I get rejected. I'm aware you don't get anywhere in life being scared & not taking action. I'm aware you have to expect failure, that failure can be good & the only way you move forward is by making mistakes and learning from them. I guess this perfectionist mentality I have is a huge flaw. I've never really spectacularly failed at anything because I've never really tried through fear. I just curl up into a ball. Last night I should have come home from work and looked for jobs, but instead I played Xbox all night probably sub consciously to avoid looking for jobs. I did briefly try to stop smoking 3 years ago and I was doing ok but I caved too early. I started going to the gym/running but I gave up after a month. It seems if I don't get instant success I beat myself up or just give up at the first sign of resistance. Again perfectionist mentality, all or nothing which I know is not good. Yet after a while I got my CV sorted out and applied for a couple of jobs, I've got an interview on Friday for probably the biggest company in the city for what I do so it can't be that bad although I'll be honest I'm not confident of getting the job. And other than that bitchy girl who shot me down on Friday, granted I've not got any "results" with woman since I came on here, I've generally had positive interactions & began to realise the main problems I have are all in my head - its probably the same with all the above, just lack of confidence and being scared of things that haven't even happened. I know nobody is going to hold my hand and do any of this for me. A real "man" would sort his shit out. I'm 32 in a few months & I'm not living, I'm just hiding under the bed covers. I'm aware this post is pathetic. Maybe the answer is "just stop being scared and do it", I don't know. Something needs to change. |
Fucking hell that post is really pathetic. I'm not going to delete it though.
If I read someone else posting that I would tell them to get a grip of themselves and do something about it. I think I'm maybe the type of person who needs a good harsh kick in the face to spur them into action......like Kowalski's pretty harsh response to my main post when I joined here; it did give me a kick up the backside. Think I've just done that myself. |
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Yeah. It just seems scary as hell. And I'm more than likely going to suck at it and be pretty nervous/un-confident to start with. I guess its something you've got to go through to start with. I really do hope its a case of the more you do it, the better/more confident you get.
Suppose I should take my own advice I gave Serenpidity in an earlier thread: "First you do the thing your scared of, then you get the confidence". How ironic I literally got this in an email about 5 minutes ago: Quote:
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The important thing is you're being honest with yourself and have identified some deeper issues that aren't serving you well and that you know need to be addressed.
From your list, number 2 would seem a good start. You could join a gym and commit yourself to a training routine. That's what I did and it's helped a lot. I've been doing that since January. I go along even when I'm not in the mood or am tired after work. It does get easier. You start to look forward to it. Apart from the knowledge that you've decided to do something positive for yourself and then stick to it, there's a long list of benefits from regular exercise. Including relief from stress, increased confidence and increased levels of testosterone, the male hormone. With the extra confidence you'll be more up for trying new things that were you're nervous about. Doing those things will give you even more confidence, which makes you want to try more adventurous things, and so on...it builds up. As you've got more hormones buzzing around in you showing your intent won't be a problem either. |
Yeah. I need to get my shit together. Having all this underlying stuff isnt going to help with regards to women either because I won't be fully happy.
For some reason I skimmed over some parts of Mark Manson's book Models. There's 1 chapter on beinh honest with your intentions. There's actually some good stuff in it. I'm not going to make any wild promises or crazy statements just now that I'm going to do XYZ & get carried away. But I need to stand up and start getting my shit together. |
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