It's easy to overthink things and feel overwhelmed (curling up in a ball). Then you avoid thinking about them, or conveniently forget, come up with excuses, etc. You develop an avoidance strategy for dealing with it. I know this can go on for years because I've done it myself. But if you just pick out one thing and completely focus on that it can get you going, then the other things start to seem a bit more manageable, or at least not so intimidating.

Thats what I've been doing.

To be honest, putting woman to one side for a moment, my number 1 priority should be to get a new job. I'd also like to really try & stop smoking. Some of the other stuff I can perhaps try to do in the background or along side it.

Saturday 30th November

Was out for a friends birthday. He (deliberatly) goes round the skankiest bars and does a harbour pub crawl which is a bit rough all in the aid of having a laugh, not my idea of fun but went along anyways.

In 1 bar my leather jacket became the topic of conversation. I often get likened to Tom Cruise (I look nothing like him) although I am short and i had a leather biker jacket on. My friends were asking if I'd left my bike outside, where was my aviators & was goose joining us later, all a bit of fun. Ridiculously "You've lost that Loving Felling" happened to be a song choice on the jukebox, somebody put it on.....my friends alll circled me & started singing it....and eventually the whole bar joined in...

When the song finished, one of my friends got chatting to a girl at the bar asking "Have you ever met Tom before? He flies jets for a living, if you want a guy to sweep you off your feet he's your man." I was feeling a bit overwhelmed after the singing but I got speaking to her with some Top Gun references before she left with her friend. "Lady in Red" was the next song on the jukebox & some guy whisked a girl in red from our group up for a dance. Randomly, a lot of women in the bar were wearing red and my mates were shouting at them saying "There's another one/Lady in Reeedddd!". 2 girls walked in, one of whom I thought was hot, they walked in at the same time as the Lady in Red stuff and also birthday boy spewing into a pint glass. I went over to them & said "Bet you guys are wondering what you've just walked into, whats 2 fine ladies like yourselves doing in a place like this?". They both laughed and we got chatting, I tried to be a bit flirty, put my arm round them and did some small amounts of kino (which felt weird) and gave each one a hug and kiss on the cheek introducing myself. The hot one seemed to be lapping it up...until i noticed the engagement ring on her finger. I just carried on and they eventually escused themselves to go to the toilet.

Another bar we were at, a heap of female students were collecting money for their hockey team. They were younger but i just went inbetween them all and started chatting, I had my arm round 2 of then as we were speaking and they didn't seem to mind. It was clear they were in a hurry to move on so i donated a couple of quid and let them go.

Come the next bar, more (different) students fund raising. One of them came up to me & she was pretty hot to explain she was fund raising etc. I said to her "I see how this works, you come in here with your nice straight blonde hair and your sparkly ear rings looking all hot in that hockey top and I'm supposed to go weak at the knees and empty my wallet into your box, you think thats going to work on me?" She laughed and said not at all & I told her it was kinda working. I got chatting & was trying to be flirty (she was freaking hot), put my arm round her, introduced myself and gave her a kiss on the cheek. We were speaking for quite a while and I found kino-ing with her was fine, she ddn't seem creeped out and was touching me back. I got pretty close and although I've read your not meant to lean in, it was loud in the bar so i used leaning in as an excuse to have an arm round her and also touch her hair as I kept moving it away from her ear to talk to her. I asked her if they were just collecting money all night & she said no they'd be going for drinks afterwards...so i took out my phone and told her she should put my number in her phone so I can catch her later. She did, gave me her number i then (feeling a bit awkward & nervous) gave her a kiss on the lips and she left.

In the same bar saw a blonde girl sitting on a double seat, i went over & sat with her & asked why she was sitting on her own, she told me she was waiting for her bf. I carried on chatting but she wasn't really taking me on, and then told me I should probably leave before her bf came back. I did, and then he came back and was fuckign huge so I'm glad i left.

In another bar, saw a hot brunette at the bar with huge tits, i went over to talk to her but before I got there a group of guys went over and spoke with them and they evnetually left together. By this point it was home time, me and a friend went to a kebab shop for food.

There were some girls in the kebab shop laughing and messing about, i turned to my mate kinda loudly and said "We've been out all night....no woman, then we come in here and its full of hotties? Never realised they all hung out in kebab shops" They laughed, we had some banter whilst waiting for food but by this point I was pretty boozy, slurring my words and tired so i kinda was on a slump and couldnt think of much to say, but we got on fine. Then I went back with my friend to his girl friends before going to sleep.

Looking back I can't honestly believe all that happened. All the woman i approached were ones i thought were hot, none of it was for "practise". I (tried to be) fairly direct and none of them seemed to mind and all went ok, apart from the girl witht he boyfriend.

I never really had any AA at all.....I can't explain why, i felt in a pretty relaxed mood the whole night. Kino-ing was weird, putting my arm round their shoulder or waist is fine, but the other touching just doesn't feel right - except with the girl who's number I got.

Ooh - would these be my first "result" since coming on here? I got a number! i could maybe have even made out with her. I only just remmebered I got her number so I've just text her but no reply yet.

That's just weird......none of that was difficult at all. I think what helped was that i was attracted to all of them in some way and I just tried to be direct without fannying around. I feel pretty awesome today!

My mates girlfriend who told me I'm not shy and I'm not bad looking & that I should just go for it, the only thing I'm missing is confidence and that personally when she's out she knows fine when guys are talking to her she knws they are hitting on her/want to sleep with her so she'd much rather prefer if they were just upfront about it, she said when guys try to dance around it it comes across as weird, almost like they are lying to her.

Tjhat was a pretty awesome night and i feel amazing right now, maybe this direct stuff actually works! Still not really comfortable with kino-ing...and i think i was quite lucky I didn't have any bad interactions other than the girl with the bf, I don't know how I'd react or how it would affect me if one of them went really bad.

You won't be when you refer to it like that! But I guess it's something you will have to practise until it becomes natural

Tuesday 10th of December

Not PUA related at all, but I'm absolutely over the moon today! Just been offered a job I never thought I would get! Hefty pay rise & the most reputable company in the city that are in my line of business!

I had thought the interview had gone pretty well apart from maybe speaking a bit fast & rambling a bit but hadn't heard anything in 2 weeks so assumed the worst. The manager interviewing me had been off on business & the HR manager was sick so that's them just getting back to me now. They said it was pretty much a cert they were going to offer me it & they thought the rambling was a good thing as it showed I had plenty of knowledge about the job.

Just waiting for them to send me the contract/documents to read over before I put my notice in here. I feel amazing, can't remember the last time I was this happy! Felt almost euphoric & pure joy when I got off the phone with them earlier!

I spent all this time too scared to apply for jobs because I thought no one would employ me, and I apply for 2 jobs and get offered both (I turned the other down)! Not bad 2/2 offers for first interviews in 9 years! Looking back that was so stupid to be scared to apply.

In some ways I can relate this to women. It's taken me this long to realise my looks & height aren't the issue; my confidence & esteem is. Both of these have just taken a huge shot through the roof after getting this offer, I wonder if its the same with women. Without being results orientated, maybe all I need is some positive interactions or results of some kind to get me going......which I won't get by doing nothing.

Congrats mate! And absolutely, the whole game thing isn't just for picking up women the increase in self esteem and body language relate to a whole load of other life interactions.
Be awesome.

Moving forward, ladieswise, what action do you feel is now necessary in doing something about obtaining these reference experiences?

yah great news about the job man. But don't forget the work / life balance. You'll need to divide your energy as appropriate between doing this new job and continuing to build your social muscles and meeting women.

I need to start being more direct, honest, forward and showing sexual intent. Doing that sounds pretty straight forward in my head. But its not easy when I have no past experience of it & obviously I'm a sexual novice with the ladies so its fair to say I lack a bit of confidence to do this.

As I put in my FR couple of weeks back I tried this for the first time & I didn't feel nervous at all nor did I have any bad reaction......I even "number closed". (She's not replied to any of my messages but who cares - still a close). I was in a weird mood that night, I felt pretty care free and indifferent which helped. Admittedly normally i'd be nervous or get stuck in my head.

I guess the only way to get better at is to keep doing, learn from any rejections or negatives and store the positives for future confidence/reference? And the only way I'll get positive experiences form it is to keep doing it I guess. The one thing I'm wary of is what happens when I have a negative experience.

Directly going up to a girl in a bar and saying I like her jacket, you look hot in it or whatever and then beginning to touch them within a few mins of talking to them feels pretty weird.

Just as a general update to this........

I've been out a couple of times since I posted, namely mad Friday & NY eve.

Mad Friday I was totally sloshed (I suppose 13 hours of drinking will do that to you). It was too long ago to remember in great detail but I was with my work colleagues for most of the night before meeting some friends. I think I approached about 6 women from my work. From a positive point of view, nothing bad happened, from a negative point of view nothing "results based" happened either. They either had their eye on someone else, already had a BF, weren't interested, or the convo just fizzed out. I also tried speaking with some of my friends work mates when I gatecrashed his night out, but by this point I was totally wasted.

NY eve had something I never expected. Went for a meal with 2 platonic female friends then to a ceilldh at a club. I lost them in the club, sitting at a table on my phone when a girl grabs my hand and whisks me up to dance.

It's the girl I've previously spoken about here & here. Basically "the one who got away", a girl i liked for ages, may have had a chance of something with & totally fucked it up. I've not seen or spoken to her in about 7 months when i decided to cut contact with her. She seemed really pleased to see me & we spoke for ages and must have danced about 4-5 times, I also started openly trying to flirt with her and told her I thought she looked hot. I was pretty hammered toward the end, but as we were dancing I tried maybe 3-4 times to escalate closer to making out with her, keeping eye contact, smiling and gradually trying to reposition us so I had my hands round her waist etc.....and everytime I did this she'd spin me around/away, or put her arms round my neck and just hug me then spin me away. End of the night I just said catch you later, gave her a crap kiss on the cheek and went home. in total we must have spent a collective 45 minutes dancing & as opposed to be all sad and depressed like I might normally be i was furious; how the hell did I not even make out with her??

Probably because she knew thats what i was trying to do and she wasn't interested....the truth hurts. Earlier in the night i saw some other guy doing the same as me and she kept playfully pushing him away and wagging her finger at him etc. She then started texting me the next day and also mentioned that some other guy tried to snog her at the bells and she insta-rejected him (she seemed proud of this). So fine, she doesn't fancy me; but I also think she has some kind of commitment or intimacy issues with men as a result of historic heartbreak, thats 4 years she's been single now. She just seems to reject guys left, right & centre. Seeing her has totally thrown me for a loop.....she's been texting me saying we should meet up & go for drinks as its been so long etc. She's clearly got no interest in me other than friends - if it was anything more than that something would have happened when we were dancing. I think I'm going to politely decline; all that will happen is I'll fancy her again, nothing will happen and it'll just drive me nuts.

You don't want to become attached to outcomes / results. They can sense it as neediness. The main thing at the moment is just to go out and have fun.

The girl you speak of Broadsworth sounds like she enjoys the attention and validation from guys. Stay clear.

You'd be forgiven for thinking that, but no. She hates being the centre of attention, she's quite introverted (although not a complete shy case) & usually more than happy sitting in the background; she's told me before she never tries to impress anyone.

I'm not saying this because I'm bitter (hands up fair enough, she doesn't fancy me) but I think she may have emotional issues that she supresses. She walked in on her first bf of 4 years shagging someone else, her 2nd bf got all possesive & intense on her which freaked her out. She's now been single for 4 years although she's had 4-5 ONS in that period, the last of which was 2 years ago. She's told me before she got heartbroken pretty bad from that 1st bf and doesn't like letting people get close to her. I asked her out on a date last year to which she replied "I have no time for dating, i think I'm going to be single for a long time". I said to a friend of hers there's no way I'm the only guy who's asked her out in the last 4 years and her friend replied "You aren't....plenty of guys have shown interest in her, she's just never interested back, although she does go home with hot guys for sex only. She's quite fussy & has pretty mega high standards as well".

Maybe she is emotionally fucked, I don't know. This whole high standards thing is almost like perfectionism, I wonder if its maybe just a defence mechanism (set your standards too high to self sabotage - never meet anyone = you'll never get hurt again). It's such a shame - she's such a pretty girl, so intelligent, some negqatives aside that every person has, she has has great girlfriend potential.

The fact I've just written this huge post on her really tells me I need to get her out of my life again; she's text me today asking me out for drinks, I'm torn between telling her the truth (I'm attracted to her too much to be friends with her) or just make up an excuse.

Broadsword, it seems thy you've been caught up with this girl that maybe a "one-itis" May have formed as you have written

That in and of itself is not a bad thing but if the feelings aren't reciprocated it can only lead down a dark road.

As telling her you have feelings for her or withholding that information is neither good or bad, but the way in which you tell her will have the greatest effect.

If I were in your position I would sit on my feelings for the minute and create/explore other options so that when you do see this girl your thoughts/actions don't revolve around her and you can see the situation for what it really is

Yes, would deffo say its one-itis. I've been here with her before. If you scroll up and look at the threads I've hyperlinked I spoke on here about her before, I think you actually also commented on it.

The feelings clearly aren't reciprocated, if they were something would have hapened when i was dancing with her on hogmany. I think I understand what you mean by other options - you mean have more girls so that when I meet her I'm not going to be so invested or needy? (although don't understand what you mean by seeing the situation for what it really is) None of that is happening at the moment. I deffo think for my own sake its not a good idea to meet her, I just don't know how to deal with it.

Exactly, you'll be less drawn to her because you'll have other girls to think about and also if she is part of your social circle, by increasing your circle of friends it means you won't end up just out with her and if you do bump into her you'll be a social proofed mac daddy
She seems to pay you some attention and have fun with you so it might be that later down the road she decides to act further romantically or she might want to just be a really good friend. Either way time will tell and if she things you are hot stuff because you are dating other girls and having fun it may swing in your favour. Alternatively you might end up with a really good female wing.

Got to agree with dale's comments here. Expressed much better than I could have.

This feeling for the girl that has not given you any sort of commitment is a sign there's work to be done. Meaning you have to be interacting with lots more women than you are at the moment. The more you do this the more the effect this woman is having on you will decrease.

That's what all this is about. Forget the sex bit for now. It's about choosing a woman and having a relationship on your own terms. Not being some kind of puppet. because we know that will end badly. Most of us have been there. It's not that women are mean, they can't help it it's just the way they are made and society has evolved in a way that doesn't help men deal with this.

So what you need to do is grow a thicker skin, you get better with women in general, you become more of a man. You don't get pushed around by women. And the funny thing is, as you do this, you become more attractive to women. This is the path you're on and it's the right path. It's very encouraging that you held back from this woman and are thinking about not responding to her requests for contact. You're learning and developing.

I don't have any other chicks on the go, I never have in my entire life. She's also not part of my social circle; we have 1 mutual friend in common. I'm sure she does have fun with me and likes me a lot - as a friend.

The harsh facts are I went out for drinks with her a year ago, we got on ridiculously amazing, plenty of chemistry/compatibility.....but I got stuck in my own head & never made a move. We texted/hung out for a few months after that and any interest she may have had vanished. After seeing her for the first time in like 6 months, if something was going to happen it would have happened when we were dancing at hogmany. Plus, this girl has been single for 4 years - openly admits to having been heart broken in the past & doesn't like lettign people get close to her. She's had a few ONS with hot confident guys. It's pretty unlikely I'm ever going to have any kind of relationship other than friends & its even more unlikely she'd ever want to sleep with me just for the sake of it.

I'd love to be friends with this girl under normal circumstances, but I want more & I always will. She doesn't. I text her back today telling her I'm skint after the festive period & can't manage. Depending on if she keeps contacting me I might have to just tell her the truth.

Yeah there seems to be a window of opportunity for making a move (progressing the relationship) that doesn't stay open indefinitely. It's very difficult to re-ignite something after that point.

One thing I've realised is there is much more chance of something happening with a new woman you have only just met than trying to somehow fix the issues with an existing one.

So let's go sort this out Broadsword? Why do you think this is?

And more importantly what do you want?

This might explain things a lot better although you don't have to reade the whole post.

I'd always put it down to my lack of height & looks. Whilst it is true I'm a dwarf of a man and have average - below average looks, plenty of men the same as me get women, so whilst its related, its not really the problem. Besides i can't change therse things; be as well get on with it. Weirdly last few months i look in the mirror a lot and actually think I look pretty good, although maybe I'm just not photogenic, i never seem to look good in photos.

Main problems would be: lack of worthiness, lack of self confidence, lack of self esteem & lack of belief in myself. I've also realised lately probably lack of masculinity (I'm not portrayed as manly enough), and not expressing, or unsuccessfully rerpresenting sexual intent.

In the 5 months or so since I joined here I've made some small steps which I've recorded in this Field Report thread. Nothing major has happened, but I do feel a bit more confident and had some really good times. I've started reading "No more Mr. Nice Guy", I'm only about 40 pages into it but can already relate to some of the factors in it. The big problem is definitly lack of sexual intent, lacking an edge.

Dude you are worthy. Once you find your way of believing this you'll be unstoppable and it will effect all facets of your life

I've just read your introductory post again. It strikes a few chords with me because I can now recognise the same thinking errors and limiting beliefs that have caused me problems (btw I'm only 2 inches taller than you are). Things are staring to change for me now. I feel as if I'm untangling that complex matrix of thoughts and feelings and moving forward.

I'm convinced what has made the biggest difference is going out more. From your FRs it's clearly made a difference to you as well. But it takes time. I go along with Tyler's advice that for the first year all you have to do is "GO OUT!"

Drawing on the pickup and self-help resource material to re-enforce your experiences in-field is also good. The wiring in your head was formed over a lot of years. It takes time to undo all that. Time, persistence and constant practice. But you'll get there. This is a fixable problem.

A lot, if not all of what you have written there Broadsword can be put under 1 heading; decisiveness.

I basically think 'if I don't do it/start it now, then when will I?' - I then act because I've realised that the future is so broad and full of expectations but at the same time it's completely empty. So saying "ohh yeah I'll do that tomorrow/ sometime in the future" is an empty statement with about as much significance as you writing some shit on facebook. It doesnt become significant until you're acting upon it; being in that moment.

That's why realising and embracing the change (taking action) is probably the most significant step.

Make things work for you, not against you.

The last few posts have only really come as a result of seeing that girl again at New Year. But there are elements of truth in them.

I do lack self confidence & self esteem and although Dale scored it out, I am not a typical "manly" man. Based on how I perceive their personalities by how they post on here I'd be the complete opposite of Phil or Kowlaski. I'm realising a few things from Reading "No more Mr. Nice Guy".

It is true - I AM a nice guy. Women tell me that all the time. They only ever just want to be friends. Forget height & looks and a logical answer to this must be lack of masculine presense or sexual expression. My situation is also extremely uncommon & (if) potential women know of this they would be heading for the hills; you can't blame them. I'm a 31 year old man who's never been in a relationship or got naked with another women. It's also not ideal when every single girl you've ever asked out has said no. This is also difficult for me in that I don't know anyone else like this, nobody can relate to it & its not exactly the sort of thing you talk to people about either.

I suppose a big flaw I have is I'm a perfectionist by nature & a black and white (all or nothing) thinker - these are not good traits to have.

But yes, reading back through thiese FR's there have been nights out or interactions I've had whereby I've had a great time and although minor to you guys on here some of the stuff I've written about would never have happened or experienced 5 months ago. It's also occured to me I've always in ways been ashamed or scared of a girl knowing I like her, even when I ask then out. "OMG! What if she realises I like her or she thinks I'm sleazing on her!". I've also never really tried to "seduce" or physically escalate with a girl - I think I've only ever went for a kiss like 3 times (including this New Year). I've now realised this is ridiculous thinking & lack of action and that i should just be more direct & honest! But again crops up the sexual expression thing - whenever I try to do it I either come across as nice & friendly, or the complete polar opposite - sleazy, creepy & weird. I struggle to calibrate it somewhwere in the middle.

At New Year whilst I was at dinner with my female friends, i thought our waitress was hot. Eventually i asked her name, it was Karen. i said "Karen, your a pretty damn good waitress, I bet the rest of them aren't as good as you?" She looked a bit startled embarrassed butt before she could really reply my female friends freaked out and covered their faces with shock...and "apologised" to the waitress for me before scolding me "Oh Broadsword, what are you doing, you don't talk to women like that!" I was actually pretty chuffed with what i said and felt like I couldn't take it further because of my friends! They are women - what the hell do they know about chatting up women??

Anyways, this has all been blown up, crying and whining in self pity with what I've written in italics will get me nowhere. I need to do more of what i did in the last paragraph. Thanks for the replies.

I was in the same boat a few years ago, I had done literally nothing with another woman. Constantly scared of girls knowing I liked them. Always put into the friend zone.
Then I slept with someone, made her my girlfriend and lasted a damn long time. My advice is to persevere, but when the easy option arrives and it will, take it.

And don't listen to your female friends' advice on chatting women.

I'd presume she said this as she has a certain perception of the way you are with women. But I would have playfully but firmly put your female friend in her place for being so condescending.

I'd do the hooker/escort thing to get that 'never been naked with a woman' monkey off your back.

Do the things you enjoy doing a lot, meet people and go for the women you like. Repeat.

Take home the bottom rung girls. The ones happy to even be in your presence. Until you're comfortable doing it. You have to do a lot of things purely for rote learning. Take home any girl who's interested. Develop the habit, the character.

Sha is right. At the moment you need experiences to build your self-confidence. I'm starting to lower my sights too for the moment. And instead of thinking in terms of ' hotness' ratings just use the binary system, i.e. 0 (no) or 1 (yes). Beer goggles help.

Ah man, I totally relate to this! I spent most of my life feeling this way. It wasn’t until I started taking those first steps a few years ago and speaking my mind more to girls that I realised that not hiding how I felt was actually positive. The problem with ‘nice guys’ are that they are, to be blunt, liars. They hide their feelings, don’t speak out when they wish they had, and say/do the opposite of what they wanted to say/do, and all for fear of damaging their ego. I’m still trying to shake off this trait myself.


This is a great step in the right direction. I can only imagine she said this as she’s not used to hearing you speaking like this, and she likes you just the way you are. Maybe she even didn’t like it because she enjoys the attention she gets from you so wants you to be a good little boy and keep in line.

100% right man, you realise what you need to do. Push those fucking boundaries some more now.

What Nova said!!

This is the same for me!

Yeah, I think you've both hit the nail 100% on the head there. They are not used to me hitting on women & just see me as nice little Broadsword. They interupted before the waitress had a chance to answer, when they apologised for my behaviour she kinda went "Erm....thats ok", she seemed confused and not overly bothered. I wish I had said something back to my friend now; I feel like she ruined it for me!

What do you mean by fear of damaging ego? You mean protecting yourself from rejection?

Yeah, I'm beginning to agree with what you just wrote, hiding intentions actually seems so counter productive and its also dishonest. I began to realise this a few pages back in this thread where I talk about being more humble and taking an actual interest in other people. Reading Mark Manson's stuff & No More Mr. Nice Guy has helped. Everyone knows women have good intuition/shit detector whatever. I read a quote from Mark Manson which said "If you want to fuck a girl but your talking about the weather, you'll come across weird. If your interested in the weather but talkign like you want to fuck her...you'll come across weird". Women can probably detect you fancy them but you come across as weird, or something isn't quite right because your hiding it. Probably because there's a mismatch with your thoughts VS they way you are expressing yourself.

I've always prided myself on being honest & genuine; hiding intentions form women goes completely against this. Ironic how I used to look at direct VS indirect approaches and totally not like direct, I'm beginning to do a 180 flip toward this now.

There's also nuances to this, such as the verbal / non-verbal communication and situation you are in. You could be building sexual tension with eye contact / touch and be talking about the weather at the same time. I would say this is still being congrouis.

If you cold approach a girl in night club or bar it's quite clear you like her from the outset. But in a more everyday situation you might need to say it, as you did at the dinner.

This is something I've not been good at either. Yes, I would hide it, and this isn't what a confident man would do. An excuse I would often make in rationalising it to myself was I was not wanting to look too keen. But usually all that happened was they assumed I wasn't interested.

Years ago I had oneitis over a girl at work. She gave me quite a lot of compliments so I finally worked up the courage to ask her out. I was really nervous and made the mistake of asking her to go out on a weekend night. I didn't know then this isn't a good option for first date. She said she couldn't cause she was busy. But she hung around (waiting to see if I would ask her if she could make it another night I guess). But I was shot through with nerves and couldn't do it.

I concluded from that one incident, and maybe a few other rejections I got that there was something fundamentally wrong with me and I was unnatractive to girls. Then the next 20 years of my life in terms of women was laid waste.

You need to think about doing more of these things alone/away from those friends who might judge.


Exactly. Playing it safe by being agreeable.


I don’t think it’s quite as simple as that. The words that are coming out of your mouth only count for a smaller percentage of the communication, as she will read your eyes and body language (like everyone does, including you). Thus talking about pretty much anything is fine, so you can flirt while talking about the weather fronts, and it won’t be weird.

As soon as you go up to a girl she’ll know, as you’re a man and she’s a girl. I’ve realised this more and more through testing being direct/indirect. You just need to get over the shame you feel for expressing this, however small.

And if you can't / don't want to convert any of these friends into lovers it would help to try expanding /changing your circle. They might have become a comfort zone for you.

You can get validation and comfort from male friends and this would allow you to see women more as a polar opposite. Which for a sexual relationship to develop is how they need to see you as well.

The canteen girl that started at my work around a month ago is pretty hot. Its pretty difficult to have any kind of meaningful conversation with her as the snack bar is so busy, on average I talk to her for around 20-45 seconds a day whilst I buy something; there's always a queue of staff behind me.

So, given that we've never had any meaningful conversation, and there's not any kind of attraction, flirting or comfort present....I decided to ask her out:vroam: (I'm leaving next week anyways)

I went at a time I didn't think would be busy & no one else was around. I bought something small, made some fluff talk about the day coming to an end then asked her name which she gave me. I then said "NAME, I'm leaving here next week & it's difficult to find time to talk to you here with it being so busy. I think your pretty hot - we should go out for some drinks to get to know each other better". She smiled and said she can't because she has a bf, I said "Really? Just don't tell him, we can keep it a secret" & she just laughed and said she didn't think that would be a good idea. Couple minutes more fluff talk and I left.

Things to note from this:

1. 90% sure she was lying about a bf, she's never mentioned him before. Speaking about Xmas & NY she was spending it with family & never mentions him when doing stuff at weekends. Presume this is just to be polite, I'd actually have preferred if she just said she wasn't interested.

2. I felt anxious as I was going to see her as I knew exactly what i was going to do, but not overly anxious. But when the words started coming out of my mouth - Holy shit! I started feeling my face coming out into a flush, my voice wavered and I felt a bit dizzy. Delivery really wasn;'t great. You know that feeling you get when you walk round a corner and someone jumps out on you and goes "BOO!", or when someone makes a fool out of you and everyone points and laughs at you - thats pretty much how I felt. Went from being 4/10 - 8/10 nervous in the space of a few seconds.

3. I've no idea what posessed me to do this, maybe because I'm leaving, maybe because of this thread.

Overall I'm not bothered it didn't go anywhere, a bit irked that I think she lied about a bf. The ting that worries me the most is how anxious I got as soon as I began my line to ask her out - anxiety just shot right through me & I wasn't confident at all, thats quite worrying. I'm sure you'll all probably just tell me I need to do this another 50-60 times to get used to it. I'm not going to get into melt down and whine like I did in the last few posts but i really hope this isn't some kind of major internal issue I have or that I need to do something crazy to strengthen my inner core. i suppose I should take a positive form it - at least I did it even if it was on a total whim.

She might have said she had a bf as a knee jerk reaction in the moment. The anxiety you felt is a normal thing so don't worry about it. Can't win em all but as you say the positive thing is you pushed past the anxiety and did it and it didn't kill you.