Something Kowalski said on another thread got me thinking. Whilst MM emphasises the use of negs whilst opening a set, there is the potential that DLV people within the group (in the form of negs that are a bit too harsh) is something a person of low value might do to in order to seek approval.

On the other hand, MM is very useful for aspiring beginners such as myself who are going to take time to become natural (we've all got to start somewhere right?). Are we wise to incorporate the neg into our game?

It's probably worth mentioning that Style is not a fan of the neg. And he's one of the best in the world.

Discuss!

I love this subject... I can talk for hours about it. I remember a few weeks ago few of us were at Kowalski's and we had a discussion on it. K raised a fair point, which was that you shouldn't lower someone's value intentionally and this is not only DLV, but its just not nice. I hear him and I agree he has a good point.

However, there are times when I feel that the neg is essential. I never go in to a set intentionally aiming to neg someone from the off - However my sense of humour may be perceived to be negging at times - my aim is to interact as normal. Sometimes though, you will encounter a girl who has herself on a pedestal. She is in her own head a 10. She is arrogant. She is what I refer to as a "stush bitch" (something which, unintentianally, offended anthony so, in a previous post!). Becasue of this attiutude of her's (and because I wouldn't approach a girl who I didn't find attractive), I feel a compulsion to have to conquer her "bitch fortress" (the extreme form of Mystery's "Bitch Sheild").

This is where negs come in... Though there are undoubtebly other ways of conquering this, for me, negs are effective in removing this type of girl from the pedestal of which she put herself atop of, and bringing her to reality; where you can engage in a good old fashioned interraction!

By all means if you have a more effective method by the way - do please share! This is how we learn!

In conclusion, I do not always think negs are essential, but I do not by any means believe that they are to be discarded from your repertoire either. If used little, but when needed... They kick ass!

So that's a maybe from me mate!

I got 99 problems but a bitch aint 1

Ritz

Never really been a fan of Negs myself, I find giving value to people rather than taking it from people to be more advantageous to your game.

I can see how they might work for newbies and yeah I used to use them sparingly, you need to make sure you calibrate it correctly otherwise you can cause real offence to people. You shouldn't Neg anything below a HB 8 on any aspect of her looks, she's probably abit insecure anyway and to bring attention to this just makes you an asshole.

Try and get yourself off Negs, Negs are just really misconstrued 'banter' for the socially inept. Banter can generate and build attraction, most people get banter and play along with it.

K has mentioned this before and I agree with him totally that Negs come from a position of value taking in order to raise your value above or to the same level as your target. This is parasitic. Instead why not just adopt the mind-set that you are equal to or posses more value than your target, nobody as more value over you than which you give them yourself.

I appreciate that sometimes you get those girls who put themselves on ridiculous pedestals, they believe themselves to be incredibly sexy and desirable to men and so they believe its ok to act like a bitch, taught to believe this through consuming a daily literary diet of hello, heat cosmopolitan magazine and TV diet of Hollyoaks and Big Brother.

Bless these girls. They're the ones who often need a reality check so to take them from one frame (high up on their pedestal) to another frame down a couple of notches is ok in my book. I like to put them in the 'Cute or adorable' frame. Natural Tim does this.
Call a girl who thinks she's a hot piece of ass 'Cute' and the reaction is funny.

It's not offensive to anybody, it's complitmentry without giving too much away.

Negs are ok but I don't set out to do them I don't even think of them as negs, just as taking the piss if that's the way the conversation goes.

Well, from what I can understand, negs are more suited to those who are having trouble hiding their interest in the target... It helps them seem less needy, or obvious, about their intents... I think once you have got the right mindset about your own value, you won't need to neg anyone... My 2 rupees.

Negs are fine but I don't avoid to do them. It's called reliwe

I think he's trying to use RELIWE as a metaphor for negs. Docking and superposition problems represent the problems of talking to a beautiful woman and their implementation with his own tool.

I don't want to know about some other dude's tool thank you.. LOL

Indeed! Why should I work hard at breaking down miserable girls who think 'they're it'. If they're going to be dicks from the start, then what's to stop them being dicks all the time, and more importantly when they meet my friends? Obviously there is the arguement that it is a 'challenge'. But I could be in danger of pissing myself off for the rest of the night. I want to have fun after all don't I?

I'd rather spend my precious time in a positive way. Sharing good times with cool people!

This is a very interesting post to neg or not to neg. I am not a fan of hardcore negs, calibrating well is the key i think. When i ever use a neg i always use a ioi after with a gentle hug and a little ioi comment which seems to work very nice. And the start of kino is always a good thing. But myself i just like the negs that dont take to much value, its more of the fun negs i like. hope this helps or confuses more of you lol