"It's not lying, it's flirting" - Mystery, The Game

Oh so close, and yet so far Mystery. Sadly in this instance he was advocating the use of the line "if I wasn't gay you'd so be mine", which sadly, in the context, would have been lying, and not flirting. However, I believe Mystery was desperately close at latching onto a concept I've been wrestling with of late - Good Negs and Bad Negs, or to put it another way, flirting and being a dick. Allow me to explain.

All through my sexual life I've been good driving girls wild whom I know are into me, be they girlfriends, fuck buddies (as with my current girl), whatever. This is due in no small part to the way I talk to them. Namely, this has involved the use of what I will refer to as "Good Negs". Using these I have become a relentless tease around women. I mercilessly torment them with statements and questions that get them qualifying and proving themselves to me, and this has formed the basis for much of my game over the past few years, before I even joined the community. Some examples of Good Negs I might use:

"Your taste in music as worse than AIDS. I know 12-year-olds with more of a clue about good music."

This one actually happened - I was telling my ex about a brilliant comeback I'd come out with:
Me - "So Becca was like, 'I don't like McDonald's - I always come out feeling really guilty and unsatisfied', so I said, 'Oh so it's like sex then?'"
Ex - [A few seconds pass where I can literally see the cogs turning in her head] "It's like sex with you then!"

"I'm surprised they let you in, normally they tell geeks to get lost!"

It is important to note that, for a Good Neg to be a Good Neg, it must meet the following criteria:

1) It must be said with a twinkle in the eye. Not only must you be joking, but she must know you are joking. One of the ways you can do this is by following Rule 1a) and 2).
1a) An extension to rule 1) is to say the Good Neg with a broad smile on your face. Either that or allow one to creep across your face when she scans you for sincerity. This is the sort of "nudge-nudge wink-wink" that let's her know everything is cool.

2) The neg must be blatantly not true. It must be so far past the line of acceptability that it becomes obvious you are joking. Telling a girl she smells a bit could well be true and is a horrid thing to say. Saying you've smelled monkey enclosures with a more alluring scent is miles over the line, blatantly not true, hilarious and is basically you saying she smells good. Hence, it is a Good Neg.

3) It is by following rules 1) and 2) that you can follow Rule 3) - you know exactly what you are doing in "lowering" her value, and she knows you know you are doing it (I put "lowering" in inverted commas because, of course, the beauty of the Good Neg is that you are in fact increasing her value - you are paying her a compliment).

You want to know how women react to this? They fucking love it. Here's why:

1) The fact that you can show you feel comfortable enough to say such outrageous things to her is a sign you trust her enough to know that she will not take you seriously. You, a man of value, has let her into his little circle of trust.

2) It is a form of negging, in that there is a small part of her thinking "is he being serious? Is that actually true?" and thus prompts validation. The beauty of it is that she realises very quickly that you're pulling her leg and any negative aspects of negging are removed.

Congratulations gentlemen, you have just learned how to flirt. Now, how not to flirt - Bad Negs (or just negs, for simplicity's sake).

There is much furore around the forum when someone talks about having negged a girl. We say things like "that's a low value thing to do", "that's not cool" and so on. It is an easy mistake to make, and I certainly will endeavour to be more understanding of people, particularly newbies, who use negs. However, think about it. Bearing in mind our 3 criteria above for Good Negs/flirting, how do Bad Negs compare?

1) Not said with a twinkle in the eye. You are not joking, and she will know you are not joking (see 2).

2) The neg is on the line of what is acceptable - "Oh you're a model? Like...a hand model?" for example. For this reason, it could well be true. Combine this with the fact that you are not joking about it, and the Bad Neg starts to take shape.

3) As for Good Negs, you know what you are doing, but she does not know you know what you are doing. To her, you come across as genuinely lowering her value by accident by saying something that may well be true.

You get the picture.

Suprised this hasn't had any comments. Good stuff man, though I don't necessarily agree about it having to be really ridiculous. I guess there are no strict rules as it entirely depends on delivery.

U know i have thought about this alot.... i find that sometimes or ALOT of the time im neggy, i do always say it with a smile.. but some girls take it wrong. I think it also takes a girl of certain intellect to fathom the basis of the joke... but yeah u r spot on, an i think mystery does advocate BEING A PRICK rather than being playfull...

Good thread, was useful thanks

Yes - rather proving my point there Camarda.

It's difficult to say - the whole point of it being ridiculous is that it is blatantly not true and is more likely to be taken as a joke, although admittedly if you delivered it well enough you could get away with something closer to the line. Maybe, like Phil said, it's about the girl you're chatting to, but if I met a girl stupid enough to construe what I'd said as a genuine insult, I'd lose attraction pretty fast.

carmarda out of interest who is the woman on ur avatar... i keep seein it an thinkin CARMADAS FUCKIN FIT

u know my friend has been in love with fabiana tambosi for years... and he messaged her on facebook tellin her he has alot of admiration for her and thinks she is stunning blah blah...

she added him.... lol.... messaged him back a few times.... this was like last year.. and she poked him the other day!!!

HAHAHAHA, this is so fucking true! So many stupid girls in the world. Also, i've decided women and dignity don't go together ha.

My point is you came accross as very low-value by using a wanky comment like your earlier one - a "bad neg" if you will.

Perhaps you're being absolutely honest in saying you dislike my musings on flirting? That's fine, we all have our opinions and I'd be happy to listen to any constructive criticism (although whether it'd change my views is debatable). However, in using sarcastic statements like the one above, you've illustrated my theory beautifully by using a "bad neg" and coming accross as low-value. Actually it probably goes beyond bad because it's a deliberate attempt to lower my value rather than an accidentally-on-purpose one.

Watch and learn kids.

to be honest carmarda... what your doing is arguin against his point when you agree... it seemed to me you where being sarcastic when thanking him, because u felt the thread was an obvious one.

The thing is most people on this forum will take mysterys neg and use it which as stated advocates acting a prick...

i think blanca was just pointing out to the less PU Fluent members that a neg could be misconstrued and explaining in more detail from his own experience how negs can be used more effectively.

which i personally think he hit the nail on the head

i dunno im always negging girls, i didnt start when i read the game, ive negged everyone since i was a kid, its just being playfull

its helped me get hot women... yea alot of people hate me but i dont care....

if they are offended because i pick up on a flaw then they should try better to be perfect

i accept an laugh at my flaws and try to make them NON flaws... how can u ever acheive perfection if your imperfections are not pointed out.

NEGGIN WORKS... maybe not how mystery puts it

but speaking to people with a smile, taking the piss & joking makes people want to apease you