Hey guys today i went out with n old friend that I hadn't seen in years.

Neway we met up n started thinking of her as a field test (i know cruel but hey I had a crush on her back then n needed to prove myself capable of conquering that which I couldn't a few years back). And so i went on to my needing perfection routine. I paused the conversation around 10 times and she would start the conversation every time (first IOI).

While she looked at clothes I wuld just wonder off n she would look for me and ask my opinion (2 IOI) afterwards I asked her to give me her hands (without saying why or for what) n she did willingly (3rd IOI) at the end of day we walked together n she held my arm as we walked. As it got colder I asked her to give me her hand so we could walk holding hands ( I wasn't looking in getting laid or at least not wiv her) n she went to defensive stand right away... n she just went back to holding my arm...

I'm trying to figure out if it was me asking for her to hold my hand so straight up that put her off or if she was just a bit too shy... Or maybe by then she had been disapointed for me not have kissed closed early on?

So what do you guys think?

ps: It can't be for the LJBF excuse as she wrote me a note on a napkin paris in january?n gave it to me..... I mean seriously that's almost a total of five IOIs!!!!!!

Something I remember Jaz saying once about IOIs....if you're conciously looking out for them, they will fuck up your game.

Besides IOIs are ambiguous, we are often led to believe that IOIs are sure-fire signs of attraction...sometimes they are not and girls give off signals that are purely incidental and therefore misread.

Instead of concerning yourself with 'Indicators' that can often be unreliable you should be prepared to know exactly where you stand with 'Affirmations of Interest' (AOIs) i.e.
something that is affirmed; a statement or proposition that is declared to be true.

This is very simple ask a girl for her number, she says 'Yes' (Affirmative)
Ask a girl out, she says 'Yes' (Affirmative)

This is much more time efficient and reliable feed back than looking out for 'hair touches', 'wrist scratches', 'dilated pupils' or analysing word for word what a girl says to you.

Indeed I'll make sure to look out for those AOIs. Instead of just letting myself be guided purely by IOIs. Cheers mate

You don't need to look out for AOIs they are affirmative statements (Affirmative/Negative i.e. Yes/No) that should give clearer feedback than IOIs.

If you ask a girl for her number and she says 'No' There you go, nothing to look out for. The information is there clear as day....move on. No time wasting, deliberating or self-doubt in your head about percieved IOIs.

I think this is tough as you are old friends or at least have an established personality in her mind. It could be just as confusing for her as you, especially if you have not acted that forward with her ever before. Your established behaviour from the past may have already positioned you in the friends zone.

If she is already familiar and comfortable with you she is bound to give the IOIs you have listed, so these don't mean as much in the grand scheme of things. IOIs are more worthwhile looking out for with a girl you have just met. I wouldn't worry so much about IOIs like Hustler says. Recognise them for sure, but at the same time you must act on them... use them as a good excuse to escalate.

The key would be to try and meet new girls and put what you have learnt to the test properly.

Nova is on the money there! spot on.

Indeed! Btw The whole IOI n AOI is bloody good advice as well! I think I'll just leave it as friends for now as my basic game still needs improvements (baby steps baby steps...)

cheers guys!

While I agree that IOIs should not be on one's mind in the field, I would question the stance of not trying PU techniques on real people. I am not fully aware of how far you are in your game development Deville, but testing material is the only way you are going to learn, and this must be in a real world environment. Unless you are doing some really extreme NLP hypnosis type techniques then there is little harm inflicted on people. Try stuff out that you have read, have successes, make mistakes, and embrace what you learn.

Go out and experiment!! From now on though, make sure all the girls are strangers and not girls you already knew.

for Kowalski for the wandering behavior and stoppiing convo. I didn't see it as being 'aloof' or 'cool' to begin with, I just saw it as a way of applying cat string theory in a very basic level for the wandering off, as for the stopping of the convos well that's part of my whole seeking out IOIs which has been a great mistake as you guys have pointed out as well as seeking too much for IOIs can just as well be a personal indicator of too much neediness.

No worries didn't see it as a 'having a go' the more advice and wisdom the better .

But Kowalski don't mean to be of a nuissance but for the past 2 hours I've found myself debating your argument of

Could you just expand to me how one can apply that n still be a pua? Or by ppl did you mean friends? (sorry if it sounds a bit tacky but seriously its killing me lol)

Cheers for the advice as well!

For Nova:

lol no no hypnosis for me although it has been tempting.

As far in the game I've only started a month so all my experience really jsut comes from experiments (and by experiments we're talking about 4 )as well as knowledge that i've been reading from books and other forums.... I tend to go for the philosophy that when I'm out sarging I'm just trying to 'sell' The Best version of myself although I do need practice (maybe alot of practice would be better lol)
I start wiv 1 or 2 or even 3 openers wiv a smile small talk and do some famous routines like best friends test confidence test hand writting etc etc n I just finish off with my time constraint...