There’s a common saying that’s batted around the internet regularly, “nice guys finish last”. Not a day goes by online in forums and articles where I don’t at some point see this saying referenced, what occurs as a result of this saying makes my blood boil. Guys (and girls) see this and naturally agree with it, we’ve all been wronged by someone and we notice and remember wrongs in our lives far more than we take note of rights.

What happens when people realise this is a slow and steady change over from being nice into being overbearing cocks. The kind of people that don’t give a shit about those around them and have zero empathy. They use “nice guys finish last” as justification for their terrible behaviour. Lately I’ve even seen guys referencing “The Selfish Gene” by Richard Dawkins as further justification and evidence against being a nice person. These extreme members of the community delibirately misinterpret it so they can use it as scientific biological justification for their cut throat competitive behaviour and general all round disregard for everyone around them. They believe that the idea of The Selfish Gene always meant survival of the strongest, most competitive and most selfish.

What the choose to ignore is the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Predators demonstrate teamwork towards a goal, one argument against. Herds will protect another animal’s young at the risk to their own life. Birds and much sea life groom one another. These are all examples where cooperation opposed to selfish behaviour are better. In all of the above examples repercussions occur as a result of cheating in the cooperative scenario, only accepting grooming and never giving it means that an animal will likely not groom you again in future for example, leaving you open to infection etc.

Far too many people see things in nature as some form of game, they over simplify the circumstances to suggest that if one animal is winning that the other must be losing.

In argument of this misinterpretation of his writing Richard Dawkins offered Prisoner’s Dilemma as an example. If I were to go into the depths and intricacies of the game in detail this article would turn into something of a dissertation in length so I’ll keep it short. Prisoner’s Dilemma is a game in which two players each have to pick one of two choices per round – cooperate or defect. If they both cooperate they earn 3 points each, if one cooperates and the other defects the defector earns 4 points while the cooperator earns 1 point. If they both defect they both earn 1 point. You can read more about the game on it’s wiki article: Prisoner's dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The following is a brief video of the various strategies to prisoner’s dilemma and what the overall winning strategy is:



So, as we can see, Tit for Tat is the winning strategy here. Many peope try to argue with me here, saying that Tit For Tat isn’t an entirely nice strategy and that the actual nice strategies all get screwed over. I say that’s wrong!

Nice guys finish last should be revised to “Weak guys finish last”, this is a far more apt description of what is going on here. The weak strategies that do not stand up for themselves when others walk over them all continue to get walked over. They’re nice guys, granted, but this is NOT the reason for their getting walked over, one can be both a nice person AND be strong at the same time. You can be nice while also having the self respect to not allow others to walk all over you. While you may lose out marginally in encounters with those that are bad, this wins overall and in fact the bad strategies all come dead last, despite having occasional complete wins that make them look better than they are..

Constantly making the incorrect point of “nice guys finish last” over and over only serves to help create a bigger and bigger problem. More and more people are seeing this and not realising that niceness isn’t the cause of finishing last, weakness is. Perpetuating this saying only helps to create more and more people that believe being a dickhead = being successful which is absolutely false and needs to stop.

Many will say that it doesn’t matter whether you say nice guys, it means the same thing. That’s true, but one turns nice people into bad guys while the other does not. It’s about time we stopped turning good people bad. Nice guys do not finish last, weak guys finish last.

In addition - I need to make this point really clear, this isn’t an argument against the behaviour these guys exhibit, that behaviour DOES make them finish last, the problem is that it’s not being nice that makes them last, it’s being weak. You can be both nice and strong at the same time.

Excellent post, ive thanked for it as i think its made an impact on my thinking.

The saying "nice guys finish last" is just a saying and shouldnt be taken literally. Of course you can be nice and sucessful. Like everything in life there needs to be a balance, to nice (meaning always trying to please others with no regard for yourself) is bad. To bad (meaning only ever pleasing yourself, with no empathy for others) is bad.

YING AND YANG


AJay

Yes, but rather than calling it nice I consider there to be a point where nice simply becomes weak. I think the distinction is important because incorrect word usage on these points has created a poor idea in millions of people that leads to the creation of utter dicks.

first of two saying which is right "don't judge a book by it's cover" and "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck" metaphors are powerful to communicate.

I agree being alpha is about leading and not being a tyrant.

e.g tyrant: we're going to this club end of

e.g leader: let's go to this club man we'll all get laid for sure

e.g chump: I like this club maybe we should go

So essentially you want to save dicks from becoming dicks??? But you don’t like dicks??
I admit words can be influential but i doubt the phrase "nice guys finish last" is a big advantage in the creation of dicks.

I myself can comprehend not to take it literally. If someone wishes to let the phrase overwhelm there logic way of thought and thus become a dick then I’m sure they will eventually shoot themselves in the foot and learn by their experience.

I sense an old friend of yours or something has changed and become a dick towards you or something recently??

AJay

Very interesting post - I think the idea "weak guys finish last" is 100% correct rather than "nice guys finish last".

Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us fuck this asshole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!

I think it sounds better if you replace weak with meek?

I mean I have many weaknesses but I'm a strong guy and consider myself a leader.

Not at all. Every single day I see dicks out there claiming that you have to be one in order to be successful and every day I see unsuccessful guys complaining about the fact that you need to be a dick to get anywhere. I can't stand the spread of something so unbelievably false that causes people to become like that.

They're not dicks until they've become one, you can't place a judgement upon people who haven't done wrong yet. I am however trying to turn some people away from that path also though. There's just no need for it.

I'm not sure about that, I agree with you, having weakness and admitting to one's weaknesses does not make someone a weak person. The overall picture is important.

my mums always playing power games.

I'm gonna write a FR soon that points out the motives of peeps it will be titled "the lover and the provider" I think you'll like it I gotta write that shit though will take me a while.