Well, there goes 3 hours of my day.. Thanks for that Jaz, it was worth it.

I've always taken issue with the argument that we're entirely selfish beings that only take actions based on self interest. It isn't a good enough model in my opinion as there are many things that seemingly go against it. A soldier throwing himself on a grenade is NOT acting in his own self interest whatever way it's argued, someone recently tried to tell me that his rational would have been that he would rather die than live knowing he could have saved people but I don't buy that at all. If the nature of our self interest is dictated by the biological function of continued survival then I can't see how it could possibly fit that model as it breaks the lowest rule in the system.

I also find it hard to believe that various figures acted in self interest, Martin Luther is an interesting example, the argument there is that he also did what he did because he was black too but he MUST have known that the inevitability of his actions would get him shot, he would have been an idiot not to know that. Given that he certainly was not stupid why on earth would someone do something they know will get them killed if they are acting only in the interest of the self?

It's good to see that game theory does turn away from self interest, I've never had time to delve into the depths of it unfortunately.

I think that sometimes survival as a species is threatened and then survival as a person becomes less important.

I think a great example is those guys who went in to the nuclear power plants in Japan.

If this was true then it would be testable and have a pattern. As far as I've seen different people will react entirely differently, selfishly or selflessly. That proves the choice can't be the product of some sort of basic rules programmed into the core of all humans through our genetics, we would all make the same choice when presented with such a life or death situation otherwise.

Over simplification indeed.

I don't know but technically tit for tat get's beaten by someone who always defects

In an individual encounter, yes. The point is the much larger picture though. Something people tend to ignore as most seem to remember bad events in their lives far more than good ones.

You seem to be arguing several ideals to satisfy one premise and then finally distancing yourself from the word nice altogether which was your original statement.

I’ve met more guys in the last 6 months than I’ve known in my entire life (knock yourselves out with the toilet humour), the reason is unfortutely girls seem to hang out with guys in bars it’s somewhat annoying but there you go.
Most of the guys I meet in clubs and bars tend to break down into three categories (and I’m trying really hard to not quote Miss Noble Knockers), the alpha annoying, arrogant ones they ooze confidence, strut around like cockerels and I dislike these guys mainly because they represent everything I’ve always despised arrogance, selfishness and a complete lack of respect, totally unnecessary.

At the other end of the spectrum we have the nice guy, the nice guy is there because he’s either funny and makes her laugh or listens to her when she’s moaning about something. He works in the same office been to all the works do’s and would love to bang her, he’s taken her out many times and always buys the drinks. He’s polite, respectable, fun to be with and that’s why he’s stood in the bar laughing with the Alpha’s.

I’m pretty sure Mr nice would be insulted by you calling him ‘weak’ and if you met Mr Nice in a bar and said that I’m sure he’d drag your arse outside and show you how weak he can be.

Then you have the good Alpha’s the good alpha is fun to be with just like Mr Nice, but he’s confident without being a dick. He’s sure of himself enough to get the girl but he won’t treat someone like shit.

In conclusion ‘Nice guys do finish last’ because when I walk her away from the group, I’ll sometimes look back and see the Alpha bad boys taking the piss out of some poor guy and the nice guy with that sad look in his eyes like someone’s just taken his puppy away.

Realise not intended for me but enjoyed that, cheers K. Same guy who did Century of the self I see.

PS

Brb off to read Atlas Shrugged...

wish hollywood would get on with the bloody film already, they had green lit it, then it went quiet again. my fav book on the big screen would be all kinds of excellent.

PS

plus it would save me the time of reading it