How to handle a FLAKEY girl
 

I've written a good article on this, you can find it on my new website, if a girl seemed really into you and suddenly got flakey. Perhaps you showed some beta behaviour? Check it out here. Always open to constructive criticism, new ideas are welcome. Also feel free to e-mail me if you need more advice on the topic.

Edit: Can somebody tell me why my link isnt working? Just copy and paste the URL if it doesn't work :D

http://ipickupwomen.com/how-to-re-at...a-flakey-girl/

Too busy to read the whole page but a quick skim down it showed me a load of stuff that's already out there a million times over, just 're-regurgitated.

That is exactly what a "quick skim down" will do. You know why? Because the principles are spot on, so they're everywhere. The difference is, I choose to elaborate and explain WHY certain things must happen, and leave out the bits that make it worse. Just because you know this stuff already, doesn't mean everybody else will. It's ok if other people have said the same thing - it works. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. ;)

Hellcats guide to handling flakes:

Mention "scat", she'll run to you,

Watch This,

Hellcat x

I don't think the article is good at all.

You admonish beta behaviour but this is beta behaviour. In fact the whole article advises beta behaviour.

This is hilarious, how do you measure an attraction level? Is there some kind of device like a Geiger counter that does this?


My constructive advice would be to spend some time on the forum. Introduce yourself and tell us your story. Coming on and posting links to a website that espouses bad PUA advise never goes down too well. Some of the members don't suffer fools gladly and will make you know about it.

Read the advice in the posts and get a feel for the place. There's some people with a lot of experience and excellent advice here. Get familiar with the vibe of the forum and then decide if this place is for you.

Above 50% = if she sees you as at least a 5 out of 10 - some amazing advice that I picked up from Doc Love and a rule I've been living by for years, always had success with this. I'm not claiming to be the best. I think you're confusing INTEREST with BETA behaviour. I'm not encouraging anybody to be a prick, just to not be overly needy to a girl who blew you out. Maybe you've got a better strategy, but this one works for me and the people I coach. Again, not claiming to be the best. Thanks for the feedback either way.

I would say thanks for the feedback.. but there wasnt any. So I'll just say, try it, it works.

So when I get 1.5 IOIs?

You're a smart guy lol. I expected a lot of trolls to be honest. My main reason for being here, is to learn, not to teach. Think I should make that clear. Again, I'm open to good advice.

Fuck off Kowalski,

He could well beat you in a scat fight. (Being overtly aggressive)

Watch This,

Hellcat x

See's you as at least 5 out of 10 what? How would you know how a girl see's you, especially when your talking in the context of a flakey girl. Surely this is the most uncertain of scenarios you could find yourself in, you have no idea on what scale out of 10 a girl finds you, it is completely unascertainable by it's very nature. To think otherwise is fucking clown shoes.

Surely you understand that attractiveness is something which is constantly in flux. If a girl is being flakey with you then the medium is the message, there is no 3 step program for flipping the switch. And even if there was why would you care? Congruency in behaviour is the only true test of attractiveness in my opinion and if you find yourself in a situation with a flakey girl then guess what...you failed, improve and move on.

Explain to me how you feel I'm confusing interest with beta because I don't feel confused at all. Your an advocate of beta behaviour, you just justify it to yourself by calling it things like 'flipping the switch'.

It's worrying to read your coaching guys. Having spent some more time on your website I don't feel you put out good advice for men with dating problems. I suppose the only saving grace is that you did say your coaching for free.

(I'll re-write this, two birds one stone...)

J-daniels & Hellcat you both seem to be putting on a performance.

Cut the shit and be authentic, develop some self awareness dude(s).

You seem to be missing the point. Judging her interest level would be something for a whole new article. I'm not denying that it fluctuates, but it will generally be around a certain point.. for example if you'd guess that she sees you as a 6/10, she'll still do things that she'd do at a 5, or a 7. If she sees you as a 4, that is when she'll have lost interest, but still pay you the odd compliment and do that stupid false hope crap, maybe enjoy your attention.. then you're wasting your time. I'm not talking about exact measurements, just a rough guideline to help guys measure how badly they turned a woman off. An easier way to explain things. I'm not here thinking I'm Adam Lyons, at all. If anything I'm here for advice, feedback on how to improve. You're giving long replies that show that you DO know what you're talking about, but you're too stuck in your ways to consider things from another point of view. I'm pretty much the opposite to most guys in the pick-up community (I'm brilliant at KEEPING a girl, I'm brilliant at understanding women, the relationship stage is easy for me... but I'm "pretty good" when it comes to "game" and whatever.. most PUA guys are the opposite - they can seduce any woman on the planet and bore her to tears in 4 months time by being too scared to ever initiate contact or anything, even when shes earning it.) So I'm looking for advice on the pick-up side of things. I'm not doubting that you'd be able to teach me a thing or 2 there, but it doesn't do a lot when you're just talking down methods that WORK, without giving any "try this instead..." or "this part sounds a little beta, how about saying this instead..."

Although I don't agree with what this guy said, at least he actually said something constructive..

Explain to me how I am missing the point and what is the point that you feel I have missed?

This makes no fucking sense. Your so invested in this weird scale it is you that misses the point entirely. Attraction isn't something that needs to be measured and gauged against on a fucking scale, you either feel it or you don't.

If that's who you aspire to be like then you are very lost. Adam Lyons is a terrible example of someone who is 'good' with women.

No, I'm coming from a place of having been on both sides of the fence. There is no happiness, satisfaction or success to be had on the side your currently on.

Having read your website I'm inclined to not believe you.

Most PUA guys are terrible with women.

I don't think you are. I think your here to have your ego wanked and told that you're awesome. I think your here to promote your website and groom people for your 'coaching'. You've been given constructive feedback, you've received good advice from members but are still blind and ignore it.

I haven't ignored any of the good advice (though there hasn't been a lot of it)

It's nothing to do with my ego. Why in God's name would I come to a website, where most people are good with women.. to show off about being good with women? There's probably hundreds of people on this site who are better than I am. I said Adam Lyons because everybody has heard of him, and I happen to think his advice is fairly good... it was either him, Mehow or Mystery, and the last 2 are slimey freaks who pretty much rape-approach on camera... nothing to be with me aspiring to be like anybody.

I don't care if you "believe me" or not.

"You either feel it or you don't" that is true, you either feel attraction or you don't... but we're talking about HOW MUCH attraction you feel... you're attracted to a 9, but you're also attracted to a 7. If the 9 is the neediest bitch on the planet and a control freak, but the 7 is cool... they soon swap places. Not that I think you will, or probably need to (if you're THAT egotistical and stubborn, then you're probably already quite good with women) but you could basically learn the theory about the interest level from Doc Love.

Again, my main reason for being here, is feedback (not just "this is shit" but more of "this is shit, you could improve it by doing this...." kind of thing)

Why would I "groom" anybody for coaching, I coach for free, as a hobby.

J Daniels, absolute legend

Watch This,

Hellcat x

Here's some good advice:

1. Stop thinking of attraction in terms of numerical values. Phenomenon is right; either your attracted or you are not. Either she is attracted or she isn't.

2. Stop rating women in terms of attractiveness numerixally. Either you think she is attractive or you don't. There is no 4's, 7's or 10's - this is a terrible way to think and will do you more harm than good.

Mark is also right, just be natural and honest and forget about all this over the top analysis into things. Interactions with woman are meant to be a normalsocial process, not a science paper.

So you're basically saying that it's impossible to be more attracted to one person than another? That's insane. I'm not saying numbers are the best way to handle it, but it's the shortest way to explain it.

^ genius

It has never even crossed my mind once to rate myself out of 10 in one girl's eyes in comparison to another, and why would I bother? At the end of the day I just wanna try get ALL of them out in order to fuck them.

If a girl tells you you're a five you're probably not fucking her right. Put it up her pooper, that'll turn that floppy five into a tight ten.

There's been loads of it, non of which validates your ego so you choose to ignore it. Not once have you demonstrated that you've taken anything on board. My last point stands more solidly.


I don't know, you tell me since that's what your doing.

You brought him up because you thought people had heard of him and that would give you social proof? That's weak.

Good, you shouldn't.

If the 9 is how you describe then I wouldn't be attracted to those qualities anyway, that disqualifies your whole point.

Broadsword broke it down great for you. Attraction is that simple, it really doesn't need the bells and whistles that you make out. It's like this;

I meet a cool girl - I like her.
We spend some time together and get on awesomely - I like her even more.
We spend even more time together and get on more awesomely - God forbid maybe I love her.

If those feelings in any of those situations are reciprocated then there will be mutual attraction. Of course if those feelings don't reciprocate each other at any of those stages the attraction will fade, you will know it and you will know its right to move on. There is no need for a 3 step method of 'flipping the switch', that is beta. Like I said your advice is.

You've accused me of being egotistical and stubborn and attribute those qualities to a supposed success with women. This is why your advice is dangerous.

You've been told multiple times of how 'this is shit, you could improve it by doing....' and you've chosen to ignore it each and every time.

I never said your motivations are monetary.

LOL "Phenomenon" - I really need to sort out he auto complete on my tablet.

It's obvious from the style of posts and consistency of thanks that these 2 are either the same person or know each other and have some kind of agenda, probably just to troll the forum.

I thought you wrote phenomenon on purpose & it was hilarious

Dangermouse goldstar point for you!



Watch This,

Hellcat x

buy my e-book

I can't be bothered to reply to every single word you said, cause it's too long, and 95% bullshit... but I'm in no way trying to fake social proof or whatever you think it is that I'm trying to do.. in what way is "I'm not trying to be Adam Lyons" doing that? Infact don't answer lol. Also, no, most of the advice has been shit "You're grooming" with no "I don't agree with this point, it makes you look ____ how about instead, you do something like this ____ to get your point across" etc.. just accusations of how I'm apparently trying to act a certain way or do a certain thing. Pretty much the only helpful advice has been from the guy who told me to read the book. He had good points, others are just trying to troll, or throwing around random accusations. I still stand by the point that you can be more attracted to one person than another, but maybe thats just me (and 99% of the planet) who knows. I won't be replying anymore, unless it's to something helpful.

Oh, 1 more thing, I don't know Hellcat. In what way am I trying to troll? I feel like I'm the only person here who isn't trolling, apart from that guy who suggested I read the book. Maybe Dan too, and a couple of others - a couple of good points have been made, but its been 95% "this is bad." with no advice.

You can't be bothered because your fragile ego can't take any form of opposition to your skewed beliefs on attraction. I reiterate you came here for an ego wank, kudos, pats on the back for your articles and you didn't get one and now everyone else is wrong and your right.

You admonish every piece of advice you've been given barring a book recommendation. You are socially blind. At least you've started to drop the backhanded passive aggressiveness, there's some semblance of progress.

'A negation is as good as an affirmation.' - Sigmund Freud

You brought him up because you believed people had heard of him. You wanted to align yourself with his name and his supposed success in the PUA industry and cash in on his social proof. But you didn't do your research and you didn't find out that someone like Adam Lyons isn't thought of too highly amongst many of the members here. When this became apparent you backtracked.

Truth hurts doesn't it.

No it hasn't. BroadswordWSJ and markuk gave you sound advice and you ignored it all. You're passive aggressiveness and inability to take any form of criticism speaks volumes about you're character. You want to be babied and mollycoddled.

I notice you're website contains no articles about approaching or dealing with approach anxiety. I bet this is because this area of dating has the potential for the most humiliation and your ego is terrified of humiliation. I bet you rarely even approach women.

No, people are offering you their thoughts and opinions since you asked for them in the first place. Hellcat is the only troll.

Is this because Doc Love tells you to believe that or is it because you have genuinely thought about this and believe it on your own?

And the passive aggressiveness is back.

Surprise, surprise the baby has spat his dummy out.


However on your advice I did some research on Doc Love like you recommended.

I believe this is him.
http://brainfoodradio.com/images/doclove.jpg

Here's an assortment of quotes I've found either from him or in relation to his practices.

Challenge is the most important reason that a woman is attracted to and chooses to stay in a relationship with one man over another

Challenge is defined as "allowing the woman to do the pursuing".

Doc Love's stated interest is to improve relationships between men and women, decrease the nation's divorce rate and gradually quell the 'war between the sexes'. He is highly critical of most self-acclaimed relationship experts who he criticizes as having no understanding of the concept of challenge and why women value it.

That last point is particularly revealing considering what you have written in your posts. You said yourself how you feel better qualified in the realm of relationships than in building attraction and dating. Your resistance to anything other than your already ingrained opinions is explained too.

It's my understanding Doc Love was originally a salesman. This goes a great way to understanding your resistance and skewed beliefs. When you were in a place of vulnerability you were drawn in by the snake oil salesman. Don't beat yourself up about it, progress can be made despite this.

I'm sure your a nice kid. It's just unfortunate the dating advice you have chosen to believe has come from a charlatan.

I genuinely can't be bothered to reply to that lol. You make some brilliant points, but most of it is just twisting my words into your own.

I believe in being more attracted to one person than another, because it is simply what happens.

Genuinely, on my life, you're WAY OFF with the Adam Lyons part. Seriously, way off.

Also you're wrong about the whole ego-wanking thing.

Feel free to tell me how you're not, tell me how you know more about me than I know about myself, keep reading my mind and typing out a full novel on how my mind works.

No mate, I'm done.

I'm just curious... what did Adam Lyons ever do to you? Who SHOULD I have said, to really impress you, really make the most of this social-proof thing?

Yeh,

Who the fuck is Hellcat, the cunt,

Watch This,

Hellcat x

IMO Adam Lyons is a good salesman. I've read a lot of his articles and its obvious he is a very intelligent guy. It's also my opinion he is not very good with women. He comes across as very friendly, social & high energy - but to me he just seems like the kinda guy a woman would want as their best pal, not sleep with.

If you google it, there is also a lot of rumours that the reason he now lives in the states is because he went bankrupt a while back in the UK after failed business ventures & was barred from being a Director which significantly impacts his ability to run his own business. There's also a rumour that his marriage to his "wife" Amanda Torres isn't real - its just an act for his business.

This is just my opinion & hear say, but as with 99% of PUA's I don't think he has even a quarter of the success with women he claims.

in terms of "Who should I have said to impress?" & reference to social proof - how about nobody & forget about it? You shouldn't be trying to impress anyone, definitely not woman, add in this nonsense about social proof and these are just both ego fuelling behaviours. Generally this is the type of thing attention seekers, narcissits (sp - can't be bothered googling it) & those who are insecure or have low self esteem look at doing in order to give themselves a boost.

4oD - The Rules of Seduction

I watched this Chanel 4 documentary sometime last year and this thread made me remember it. So I watched it again.

Adam Lyons features quite heavily in it.

I found the whole thing pretty tragic and at times made for difficult viewing but it's interesting as it does give some insight into what makes these guys tick so I would recommend it, if only from a cautionary perspective.

Highlights include;

Adam speaks of his bad relationship with his mother and whilst he doesn't go into details he does follow it up with the comment that you should 'never chase a bad set'. It's as if he literally views every social interaction with women through PUA tinted glasses. He also justifies his ability to drop interactions when they don't go his way as his 'edge'. For me this is quite a damaging outlook to have when interacting with women. I remember catching myself being like this sometime ago and it made for a very uncomfortable time for me.

This is backed up even more when he has the Skype conversation with his girlfriend Amanda. After commanding her to get her pet dog he turns to the filmmaker and confirms he is gaming her and using frame control. He then says that he's not even sure if he likes her anymore, yet when she returns he belies none of his true feelings for her. There is no shred of authenticity from him, he is a liar and a manipulator. I feel sorry for his girlfriend as she seems to genuinely like him.

When asked by the filmmaker what he wants 'to get out of all this' he replies that he just wants to be 'the best pickup artist in the world'. Take from that aspiration what you will.

He approaches a group of girls while with his girlfriend on the beach and then uses her phone to get their numbers. Whilst she tries to brush it off her face looks pretty crushed. It's the most disgustingly cuntish behaviour in the whole show. The guy comes off as an absolute prick who cares about no one but himself.

This is why I don't think this is the type of person anyone should be learning how to get 'good' with women from.

The whole segment with Ian was literally car crash TV. I felt sorry for this guy, he was the perfect patsy for PUATraining to sink their claws into. The segments where the guys had to role play with Kezia Noble were the most cringe worthy moments of the show.

Darren's story was equally tragic. He'd invested absolutely everything into PUA and whilst it did pay some dividends in so much as he could pull he literally had nothing else going for him. No job, money, house, friends, hobbies or prospects.

Well I got a job now. http://londonescorts.com

No money, no honey!

Watch This,

Hellcat x

I've heard you give the toothiest blowjob south of the river.

Adam Lyons is Hellcat. Hellcat is a boring troll. I like fun trolls. Dangerous ones who make me feel alive

Barney is one of the ugliest cunts I know and even he can make out with girls sometimes (depending how leathered they are) - so, PUA works. Listen to J Daniels.

Watch This,

Hellcat x