People on here like Kowalski because, once you actually bother to read his ideas in depth, you realise he really knows what the fuck he's talking about. The guy's been doing this for a long fucking time, and frankly the fact that he can come across as short and abrasive is pretty much down to being out of patience with spelling out why the dumb ideas in the pickup community are dumb. It's a slap to knock you out of an entrenched pickup mindset rather than hand holding you through it all. I argued with him myself when I first started posting; I thought he was a dick and he thought I was an idiot. The thing is though, the better I got, the more we naturally started to agree.

That's how it is here. You'll get good advice if you ask for it, it just might not come in the form you expect it to. If you regurgitate standard pickup nonsense you'll probs get shat on, be it briefly or in great detail. And if you can't take someone calling you 'embarrassing' without reverting to weird projections about substance abuse, all the time not realise you're being a dick right back yourself, you won't last long.

His ideas? He didn't offer an idea. He just insulted for absolutely no reason at all.

The substance abuse thing was correct. I also hadn't said anything wrong at that point. I stated an opinion, which is all that it was. I think Adam Lyons has some good advice to offer... there's nothing "embarrassing" about that.

Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxATWmbxIP0 I like this. I've tried it, it worked, and it worked again.

Here's another. This is the one I was talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIx_aRK4f0w also use this regularly.

Now, Kowalski, rather than insulting and telling me how embarrassing I am for thinking Adam Lyons' material is fairly good, how about you tell me something better? Nobody from RSD unless it's Jeffy, please.

I'll look at this vids later, i don't get you tube access at work.

A better way to think of all these guys - Gambler, Adam Lyons would be BUSINESS MEN. The only thing Kezia Noble has going for her is her tits. They ARE NOT studs with women. They don't pick up loads of chicks. I met Gambler once and was hugely disapointed, he's a good actor & business man I'll give you that.

100% serious I'd rather take advice from Kowalski, Stein & couple of other guys on here any day of the week over any of these pick up guru's. The difference is the guys I mentioned from here actually do this stuff & live by it, they don't just sit putting up scripted videos & making loads of internet posts & taking no action.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that Adam's marriage to Amanda was purely for his business - they aren't really husband & wife. There's also a lot of evidence to suggest he went bankrupt starting several businesses multiple times in the UK & is barred from working at board/executive level for any UK company at this current moment in time, hence why he moved to the USA in order for him to start up more businesses - do some research on these & see what you find.

A better way to look at all this is improving yourself & your life as a person. Women is just one by product of that along with general life satisfaction, finance, career, fitness etc. I don't know what Kowalski's opinion of Mark Manson is but I like his stuff - he goes more in depth than just running robotic PUA routines and talks a lot more about life. He's actually moved away from dating/PUA & gone down the life coach route which I prefer. Way better than any of those other PUA's.

Only question i would have is: how have you improved since you stopped posting on here? What is your evidence you've improved & what do you measure it by?

Yeah - he can at times get a bit wishy washy & go off at a tangent & you do get the feeling he struggles to put his thoughts or concepts into words at times & can get a bit flowery.

Forgot as well that another guy that's really good is James D. Wolfe. I can't comment on RSD, but Manson & Wolfe shit all over these other PUA's by a country mile.

There's quite a lot to reply to so I might unintentionally ignore something.

Kowalski, if you read back, you'lll see that it was actually you who got "butthurt" because I offered a different opinion something, making me embarrassing.

As for Adam, Kezia and Gambler... I already know that Kezia is a shower of shite. Gambler, fake or not, gives effective tips on little things like escalation in a club for example. I don't think good advice and experience have to necessarily go hand in hand. Before "somebody" quotes that and insults me for it, I want to explain what I meant: Lets say a guy really likes the advice Gambler gives, so he applies it and gets some pretty good results, he's getting laid more regularly than he used to be or at least getting more makeouts... his confidence will go right up, surely. Now lets say he finds out Gambler is fake... should that guy stop applying what he learned? Of course not. Guess what, Kezia doesn't fuck a lot of girls either, but I guarantee if a guy applied everything she teaches then she'd get laid more than he was when he was at the point that he had to Google how to get girls and he found her videos... even though I will say, again, that she's fucking awful.
That's all these guys are to me, the odd little tip for when a particular situation is foreign to me. I haven't said they're the best thing since sliced bread, just that I think they're pretty cool sometimes. If we're going to bash them for being fake though, we shouldn't do it on a forum where RSD seem to be adored lol. Tylers bidaily approaches must have only been going on for 2 and a half weeks, or he just has the worst sensory acuity on the planet and has only managed to turn ~35 of them into sex. But even then, there's still some good advice from Tyler.

I'm already on a forum that has some pretty good advice and friendly people. This one has a lot more of a "this is how it's done, it's a science and not an art" vibe... which is confusing to me if you're suggesting Mark Manson of all people, who correctly describes pick up as (primarily) an emotional process rather than a logical one. I'm not looking for advice, though.

How have I improved? Hate that question. It's like "qualify yourself to me" but anyway... I've improved financially by quite a lot. I've improved my qualifications by an absolute fucking mile and I'm still going, I've improved the quality and quantity of women in my life (and currently taken it back down to one woman, who I'm exclusive with but not in a relationship - how fuckin' weird is that shit?), I'm physically stronger and a lot better looking. I employed this "in at the deep end before you get chance to think" attitude, and I live by it. No doubt it'll fuck me over one day, but for now it's working magically for me. I'm excited for the future, for the first time since I was 8 years old. I'm addicted to the feeling of accomplishment.

I want to say, it's fucking crazy how my reputation on this forum is the complete opposite to my reputation on the other one... it's understandable, but it is pretty cool.

Alright, fair point... by the "mid afternoon, hope it's only alcohol" comment, I was pissed off and I was being a dick too.

It was more of an insult than an opinion, but 10/10 on the reframe.

I will admit that "that was mid afternoon so you were probably fucking wasted by then. God, I hope it is only alcohol." was exactly the same thing, though. I shouldn't have responded in that way.

Just the general vibe that I get from people here. How is "You are embarrassing" offering an opinion? That's like me saying "You're a dick." is me politely considering a different perspective. If so, then that's exactly what I'm doing. I think you were being a dick. "Offering an opinion" can make you a dick.

Chicks love full grown men arguing on forums

Not really sure where you get that idea from at all. If anything the vibe i get from this forum is that there is a lot more to it than just lines & routines - it''s more to do with developing your life and yourself as a person. There's no "this is how its done vibe" because its real life so every situation & outcome can be different, unlike scripted PUA which tries to come up with an answer for everything. Thinking of this as a science - that's what traditional PUA does and fails.

That's a hell of a lot to have achieved in 1.5 years, especially trying to tackle multiple life area's at once. So how have you managed to majorly improve your qualifications so quickly in such a short space of time? As someone who has studied academically & within industry and achieved quite a lot career & qualification wise, this has taken me the best part of 8-10 years to get to where I am job & qualificaiton wise, so I'd be really interested to know how you've managed to advance this so quickly in much less time. The same goes for finances - unless your a millionaire or you've lucked in on inventing the next facebook. Again, I have a good amount of savings that's been built up over time, i saved a lot more by going self employed 2 years ago & earning almost double what i earned before. But I know from experience that building finances takes time. How have you improved them so vastly? Gambling?

You can't be exclusive with someone but not in a relationship. Either your in an exclusive relationship & your 100% devoted to them only, or your not. It can't be half of each. To be exclusive but not in a relationship is a statement which makes no sense. The only thing I can think of is that shes your fuck buddy & your sleeping with her & her only, She's not your girlfriend, she's just the only women you have sex with. That would make more sense.

Who even cares about your reputation on a forum? If you do or this is something important to you, I think you have quite a few things in your life that need sorting out.

You've improved in effectively every single area completely dramatically in your life in the space of 1.5 years? There are very few people in this world that could do all of what you've done in the last 1.5 years, life just doesn't work like that without a hitch. You've not really given any evidence or indication as to how you've improved, so you've still not really justified anything. Either your very lucky, or your just speaking bullshit.

You have proclaimed yourself the arbiter of what is dumb and not dumb within this thread.

Haha I'm not arguing, you can comment on a post without it being an argument. To the rest of it, what are you on even on about hahahaha. I love your arguing, you're quite clever with it, maybe I could do a post deconstructing it all.

If you read back you'll see I just made a sarcastic little joke. Anyway I'll leave you guys to it

Sorry for not reading the last couple of comments properly... as for qualifications, I'm not claiming to have a PhD or anything (unless we're talking pretty huge... lol sorry nevermind.) I fucked up in school and I decided to go back and get some qualifications, so I got my maths & English, then I did accountancy and I'm now doing the next level of accountancy. University is a possibility next year so I haven't gained any mindblowing qualifications, but I've done enough to be proud of myself.

I also am not claiming to be rich, at all. I have about £1500 in my bank as we speak. You're not far off with gambling. I saw a thread on this forum about matched betting. I use a VPN and do matched betting as myself, my uncle, my Dad and a girl that I know. Each account can generate about £1500 from sign up offers and £250 a week from reload offers, but I'm complacent and I honestly stop at around £300 per week. It's not a huge amount, but it eliminates the need to work and helps me really focus on my studying.

What you have to understand is that I'm comparing myself to how I used to be. 2 years ago I didn't have the money to go on a night out, I had no ambition to do anything. I wasn't bragging at all, if that is how it sounded. I don't doubt for one second that some of you guys have 20,000+ in the bank and much more prestigious qualifications than I do. Doesn't mean I'm not proud of the changes I've made.

Oh and if anybody wants any kind of statistics to go by:

Highest qualification 2 years ago: C in art

Money in bank 2 years ago: £60

I'll wait for the "lol you've got nothing" reply... but, again, I'm comparing myself to the guy I used to be. My attitude towards life, compared to then, is fucking fantastic.

Adam Lyons marriage was real. But he got a divorce. He is now in a three way relationship with a Russian Immigrant and a single mum. And he has just had a kid with the single mum.

He is living his life the way he wants and I can respect that.

But there is no way I would buy any of his products; I've been con out of enough money from dating coaches. Also I think he is a bit of a prick for doing this video:

You have to be so insecure to even think about doing something like that to anyone. Also, how would you know that the other guy was a player? Do you look to see if he is wearing basketball shorts or walking around the club in football boots?

Ultimately, if his products or boot camps get you out of the house and socialising. Then I'm cool with that. It's your money.

Insecure? Not particularly. I'm not the one paying another guy to tell me how to get girls, and then blaming that guy because I still can't do it.

Spending money on coaching from a pick up artist or any other kind of "coach" related to dating is moronic in itself. Did you expect to magically fuck any girl you wanted because you attended a quick RSD seminar? Don't be silly. Every "coach" gives their best material for free, fact. The only way that paying for some sort of coaching would improve you, is because you've put money on the line and you don't want it to be for no reason so you're suddenly motivated to actually take action - meaning you had it all along, you just had to throw some money away to use it.

That doesn't make any sense.

You would have to be insecure to use that advice; because one would have to feel threaten by the present of another male in order to believe that acting like a cunt is a good idea.

It reminds me about the advice Mystery gave Neil Strauss at the start of "The Game". If a guy starts trying to compete for the same girl you just walk away. Because you are the prize. Fighting over her makes her think she is the prize. You have options; there is loads of other women around. If she wants to be with you, then she will chase after you.


That doesn't make any sense as well. :noidea:

I have never been on a boot camp in my life. But I do have a crap load of books. Half of which I haven't read. Simply because I'm lazy. I prefer audio books and DVDs.

I like PUA openers and routines. Because it acts as a spring board to build confidence.

All the girls, I have been with. Have been with me because of me. But if I feel lost, I can always fall back on a routine. I can always open, because I don't need to fear that I won't know what to say. I will always support this stuff; because it makes me feel more relaxed knowing it's in reserve.

There is a audio book I have call "The leader's guide to storytelling - mastering the art and discipline of business narrative" by Stephen Denning. In it he talks about the importance of sharing stories and experiences. That's why I will always support this PUA stuff. Because having a guideline is better than nothing.

The fact is; you can never be prepared for everything. Because no two moments of time is the same. This is due to the second Law of thermodynamics and Entropy.

so put that in your pipe and smoke it. :smokin:

Buying that many books is still just as moronic (as you've already admitted, when you said you haven't even read them because you don't like books, lol!?)

I notice a lot of references to Mystery in your posts. Interesting. "If she likes you, she will chase you, so there's no need to wear a stupid hat and paint your nails to get her attention. Peacocking is just competing for her attention" is a better way to word that quote, I think.

So put that in your NLP routine and neg the target, Stylev2.

That's because I think Mystery is really cool. He is the one who started the concept of indirect openers.

Also, I don't think you understand what pea-cocking is. Pea-cocking is about being fun and adventurous. Having an appearance that says your cool and exciting.

I have tattoos on my forearms. which are bold and colourful. And last summer I was walking down the road in North London, when suddenly a girl jumped out at me. She screeched at me "Can I see your Tattoos, are they real?"

The fact is, she opened me. Pea-cocking is something interesting to look at.

Or the time I went to a house rave in South London with my friend Ian. Women where coming up to him all night long. simply Because he was dress as a banana.

That's what makes pea-cocking cool. It's not about having all the buttons undone on your five hundred pound shirt. It's just about having fun.

My routines are normally personality games; the rings routine, palm reading, Cat or Dog person. That sort of thing.

Must remember to dress as fruit on NYE then. Lol.

Actially, now that you mention that i do remember this. Think it was featued on This Morning or in the press.

i don't think that's 100% true. If they are a non PUA & focus more on being social, conquering your inner beliefs and hold ups & ultimately help you develop as a person I think it can be beneficial. I've been to see a therapist for similar reasons & whilst I wouldn't say it was amazing or life changing, it was ok. What I don't agree with is paying money to someone to just re-gurgatate canned material which you can get free from books or online, and some guy telling you that within 1 week he'll gurantee you'll be shagging everythign that moves.

I also don't agree that any coach will "give away his best material for free". Now THAT would be moronic. What is coaching to this person? Regardless of other labels, its a job. What, aside from passion or helping people do you also require from a job? Money, income. If a coach is giving away his best ideas for free he's an idiot. That's where you make your money.

I agree with the first part. My initial statement was a little ignorant, I admit.

As for the second part, maybe I'm wrong there, too. Maybe not ALL coaches do it, for example Neil Strauss if you can count him - does he even have anything that's free? I doubt he has anything that you could pay for either apart from his vague, surface level books. But I think it's fair to say that the majoriity are going to use their best material for promotional purposes, encouraging people to part with their money in the first place. Let's say Tyler for example purposes... what could he possibly have to offer that isn't in his videos? I think common sense would tell most people not to pay this guy to coach them for a specific situation such as a problem in a relationship and he has multiple videos for every pick up related topic you could probably think of. How is he going to top that just because money is involved?

Tyler isn't an idiot. He knows everybody torrents these days. The videos are 90% filler, even I noticed that when I liked them. He also rehashes general self-help stuff.

Those videos are there to keep his listeners/viewers/target audience in the loop to buy a free tour/hotseat/bootcamp. That is where they make ALL their money. They even admit this themselves.

And the free tour isn't really free, you have to leave a deposit which you have to jump through a few hoops to get back. Then at the free tour they will pressure you into a hotseat or bootcamp. And from the hotseat they will pressure you into a bootcamp. The free tour gets hundreds of people per night, it'd only take 2% of them to take a hotseat/bootcamp fincially profitable if you consider how many people don't end up getting their deposit back.

I've been to a free tour which became the beginning of the end of my PUA brainwashing. I also don't think the above tactic is manipulative or particularly bad. But it is why they give out seemingly endless videos from every instructor every week.

Granted I've never actually been to an event or anything, but I've torrented a few things here and there... and I honestly found most of it crap. It all seemed like... pointless theory. I'll give a few examples:

Adam Lyons: "The conventional, well known pick up methods are all wrong! Here's the correct ones, cause I say so!" (even though I like a lot of his stuff, this is just him all over - and his free stuff is only half as bad as his paid stuff)

Gambler: actually nah I can't really fault Gambler. A little too much theory but if a guy followed Gambler and only Gambler, he'd get some fantastic results.

Jeffy: Just be a fucking weirdo. Most women will think you're a rapist, but some will fuck you because you'll wear them down so much that they're riddled with insecurities. You will, however, have fucking fantastic text game, with girls who already wanted to fuck you. - his free videos actually impress me a little, sometimes, though.

Tyler: "Be a dick! Walk up to her and say you're scared of the dark, then call her a bitch! Self amusement! She'll walk away, but so what!" - pretty much exactly the same in both his free material and his paid shit, but RSD have that painful, cringe worthy "cult" vibe that really gives a strong sense of "Just 1 more seminar and I'll finally have it! Ah, I think I should get 1 more" and it never ends... this feeling of forever being "almost there" like theres some kind of end goal.

Julien: I'm a fucking retard. - he's a retard. Lol.

but, having never been to a bootcamp, my opinion could be absolutely way off. Unless I'd laid money down, I'd probably be viewing it from more of a "Nah, wouldn't work. Not natural enough" point of view.

No PUA's have anything of much value that's free - Shah pretty much sums it up. Every video you click on is pretty much "I'm away to share a secret with you that the worlds best PUA's/seducers/women don't want you to know. Are you ready - here we go". The video willl then last around 20 minutes and make multiple references to this secret, before getting to that end and not really telling you much ir keeping you on a hook by filling you with so much potential. At the end you'll be told something like the secret this guy has found has been put in a report & you need to buy it "Now we only have 50 copies and that's it/this has to sell by midnight tonight/this normally retails for £1200 but today I'm going to give it to you for £49" - common & classic sales techniques used by internet businessmen the wolrld over not unique to ~PUA. I've gone back to pages 1 month later where the offer only lasts until midnight or only 50 copies are for sale and it's still there - load of bullshit.

Every video or newsletter you get is filler or gives some small titbits, along with probably stressing how your getting this for free or how amazig it is. You end up being impressed by it being free/amazing that when their next product comes out which is more advanced then what they have been talking about, you end up buying it. You also notice if a PUA begins to release a flurry of small videos or newsletters over a small period of time, its usually because he's building up to the release of his next big product which is probably "goin g to change the game FOREVER/nobody has tried this before/I've spent 5 years perfecting this method" etc etc

If PUA all worked, these guru's would alll be millionaires but in reality in this day in age a lot of them I'd imagine are struggling. Sorry but I don't believe for one minute Gambler is living a jet set lifestyle or shagging Russian super models - I bet he's doing ok/maybe breaking even if not worse. I've met him, he came across as incredibly shy, nervous & not very confident - he's a bit of a mumbler & it can be quite difficult to understand what he says especially when he stammers and constantly says "ummm". I get the same impression from his videos. If he's not confident enough to talk to a room of 10 guys in a pub there's no way he's taking home "10's" - it's all bullshit for his business or hired models you see in the photo shoots. In actual fact the instructors on the booot camp i was on were miles better than him, I weas so disapointed, the way he acted you'd think he'd never spoken to a women before - seriously.

PUA was huge in the mid 2000's when Mystery/Style & Gambler started off, there's only so long it can last and only so much material you can put out before you've done everything.

Again - why on Earth would a business man give his away his best ideas for free? How's he going to make his money then, by selling lesser content? If you already have the best ideas your not going to spend money on stuff that isn't as good, because your going to make more money and sell your best ideas at a higher price. Bill Gates & Steve Jobs didn't get where they were by giving away the windows operating system & iPhones for free, but charging folk for internet explorer & iTunes.

It is true, these dating coaches do hide their best material. And the biggest problem is that even if they give it away for free or charge an extortionate rate; If you found out what really attracts the girls. Would it be helpful?

I've got a DVD at home by a guy called "Evolve", who goes on and on about using Zodiac astrology. Claiming that he can pick up any girl he wants by just talking about zodiac signs. Saying how he would invite girls back to his place for a star chart reading, and start asking questions of a sexual nature to help with the reading. As he turns to the viewers with a serious caution. "be careful with this stuff. IT'S VERY POWERFUL"

I don't give a dam. I know that Zodiac Astrology is a load of crap, but if it gets the girl wet, who cares.

One night in camden, a few years ago. I started talking to a Dutch girl, and sure enough. "what's your star sign?" I calmly asked.
In a sudden explosion of emotional detest she bellowed back "I hate star signs, WHAT! No, star signs are fake, WHAT! NO!"

Not to be put off. I carried on trying to use star signs on other women, in a deluded attempt to manipulate them into sleeping with me.

And sure enough, out of about twenty different ladies, every single woman would have a similar response. They would suddenly give me a dirty look. As if I was barking mad for asking such a thing.

I've since never talked about stars signs, but I do know what must women find attractive about me. That is the fact I am a singer. The way her eyes light up when I tell her this. How she suddenly becomes interested in listening to how I entered a singing competition. Does knowing my most attractive aspect help anyone?

Or Neil Strauss' hidden material is basically him name dropping all the famous A-list celebrities he has interviewed. Does that help anyone?

All PUA openers and routines are just supplements. The most attractive thing about you is you.

But I see it as a paradox. If I hadn't of gone up and talked about star signs, I would never have been in conversation with any girls and discovered that the most attractive thing about me is that I'm a singer.

In my opinion; you can't pick up a girl with PUA openers or routines and you can't pick up a girl without PUA openers and routines.:der:

no, it's called a paradox. the statement is still the same if I state it as "You can pick girls up with PUA openers and routines. You can pick girls up with out PUA openers and routines." The statement contradicts itself and offers no help to any one.

The only reason one would be looking at PUA openers and routines, is because one needs help with getting a date. And we were debating free PUA material against paid for material. Also the business acumen of dating coaches.

And I stated that it's all a PARADOX. The point of the story is that:

Your dammed if you do, your dammed if you don't.

I hate saying it but kowalski is bang on lol

You can't Quote half a sentence, without putting "....." Before or after. You must be a spastic. You can't lie to me about me.

And millions of people don't do it every day. Hence the mere creation of the PUA Forum. Hence the reason behind the creation of PUA openers and routines.

Drop, I'd advise you to get the conversational skills to think for yourself. Maybe practice with word association or something, to get you to the point where routines and this false paradigm (for lack of a better word)
of "this pua stuff" as some kind of external mental book of routines in your repertoire that you use to trick women into bed, is a thing of the past. It's not that hard, and your results will go through the roof. I personally guarantee it. We've all done it. I won't rule out routines completely because I've been known to pull out the 5 lies game for a laugh. But to have routines as your default setting, you're setting yourself up to be a one trick pony who can't keep a woman interested unless Neil Strauss releases a new book.

Sorry if there are any typing fails in here - autocorrect and fat thumbs. Fixed what I could find.

Yes they do. Tbh PUA material was created to appeal to people so socially inept that they're oblivious to that fact.

Precisely. Most of my friends are naturals and I was the one who got no pussy. They've never heard of "the cube routine" or "boyfriend destroyers" lol. Everybody has lines that they use regularly, openers maybe, responses to shit tests or whatever you like. Nobody half decent has routines as their default setting though.

this is what was said:

this is what I said:

At what point did I say that sex was invented by an American in the 1960's. And before his shocking discovery, human beings would reproduce the species by banging rocks against a tree?

Millions of men & women have courted each other & had sex for thousands upon thousands of years without PUA. I have 2 friends who have slept with maybe 80 + women between them - they've never even heard of PUA. Millions of guys the world over who have had multiple relationships/onie night stands have managed fine, they've never heard of PUA either.

It's not a paradox at all. The answer is simple: you don't need PUA routines or openers. If you do need them, there's a more underlying problem that needs to be addressed.

Is it me, or is there a underlying problem going on. I need to know if you read my posts or you just jumped in half way though?

I don't understand how you can rewrite my personal experiences; with using PUA openers and routines. I don't understand how you think it's possible to rewrite history.

Please do not reply until you have read this:


Telling some one to go out and be confident with women does not work. Telling someone to go out and say "I'm having a argument with a friend, and I was wondering on your take on this. Do you think phone sex is cheating?"

AND BANG, the ice is broken.
AND BANG, your confidence is increasing
AND BANG, approach anxiety disappears
AND BANG, the limescale is gone.
The Cillit bang method!!!!!:nana:

Yes, and welcome to PUA community. I've meet with lots of wings over the years. And what I can tell you is that telling a wing "talk to her". Will not work. Telling them, use this opener, does work.

Also PUA openers and routines are meant to be more interesting and entertaining then the normal crap men say.

-"hi, how are you doing?"
-"where do you come from?"
-"do you have a job?"
-"Do you pay your Taxes?"

And agin I will repeat my self:

:der:

if you're winging with guys who can't even open a girl without lying, and you encourage it, I see the problem. I will say though, half of the guys that discredit routines are walking over and saying "I thought you were cute and had to come over" like that's not a pre written opener. At least its direct though.

Work on your confidence and try to primarily be direct and 75% natural at least, as your default setting.

Routines are good, but it's like wearing a mask that is a lot better looking than you are. Eventually the mask comes off and you look like a smacked arse. Why not go for congruency and naturalism (lol, not nudity, unless you got lucky) right from the get go? Things improve. I won't force direct on you because indirect also can be very good.

Palm reading is where the real pussy is at...

TL;DR Everything I’ve been saying for years.

Yep.

I think this points to a possibly shallow interpretation of what 'you' are and what makes you attractive.



Being a singer is one of those cut and paste social roles that are, as a trope, percieved as attractive. Have you stopped and thought about how that came about? Singer as a group embody certain qualities that are attractive: creativity, social status, confidence, the ability to hold people's attention and so on.

Let's stress here that it is these root attributes that are attractive, and in popular culture this is post rationalised under the simplified banner 'singers are attractive'.

This means you can briefly be appealing to a degree just by saying 'I'm a singer', and briefly keep people's interest, but for someone to genuinely be into you due to that you have to authentically and consistently embody the characteristics that make that role attractive.

These two are clearly largely independent of one another too. You can be a singer without having those attractive characteristics and you can have those attractive characteristics without being a singer.

So how does this point link to routines?
In the same way that being a singer can imply certain root characteristics about you (provided you’re congruent with it), think about what doing pre rehearsed material when talking to people implies about you. It implies you feel the need to do so. It implies you feel the need to be entertain people in order to talk to them, it implies that you lack confidence to the point where your worried that your general reactions to them aren’t valid, and that you’re thirsty enough to put big amounts of thought into provoking positive reactions from strangers.

But no one’s aware of that right? Well, on a level, a lot of people actually can. Most people with a bit of social acuity can detect fakeness really well. If you look past the surface level of what words you’re saying to things like subtle changes in your movements, tone and reactions that are beyond you conscious control, you’ll realise you’re always conveying the reality of how you feel and are to some degree. People may not be aware of this on a conscious level, but there’s a feeling of being sold something that’s highly uncomfortable.

I see this shit all the time when I’m hanging out with girls. I go out in central London a lot which is a bit of a PUA hive. I’ll meet some girls and hang with them for the evening, and guys come up and kick all the standard game shit. The reactions might even initially be friendly and they might have all the routines and shit down, but on some level it just comes across a fucking weird.

It’s a social acuity thing though. Back when I was less experienced and socially aware, like most beginner PUAs, I was never aware of it, but now it’s just nails on a chalkboard kind of cringe.


I think there’s a short sightedness pervasive in PUA thinking. Barely any thought goes past the immediate. Giving someone a fancy yet unintrusive, non-commital opener like a standard opinion opener is helpful for a nervous beginner because he feels like he’s better armed with stuff he can work with, and it can provoke an initial reaction more easily than ‘Hey’. But the issue isn’t in the immediate. It’s like training wheels designed to briefly and very temporarily mask the fundamental underlying problem. The problem is getting laid for the most part at least takes a few hours, and the more time you spent using can shit and shoehorning square pegs into round holes the more apparent those unattractive qualities become.

This is why practically everyone starts to suffer from the ‘I can open a lot but I don’t get anywhere problem’. Because all you’ve been practising is using a routing to start a fake ass conversation, instead of addressing the underlying root problems that prevent you from getting somewhere.

Not being funny, but how often do you get laid doing this? How often do you go out with people who do this and get laid consistently? I’ve been going out for a long time and I’ve seen a lot of people doing this, and I’d bet that aside from occasional incident of girls who are straight up out to fuck and are willing to overlook that shit, that it’s pretty much slim to nil.


Again, your primary focus here is on what will help beginners talk to a girl; training wheels. This doesn’t take into account addressing the issues that actually prevent you from getting anywhere.

As I got better, I found that I’m normally starting my conversations with ‘Hey’, ‘Alright?’, Hey, how’s your night going?’, or something like that. You know, like real human beings. People might not always respond at first, but I definitely got laid a lot more that way. In fact, I wish I’d just done that from the start, would have saved a lot of time and energy in the long run.

At about 3:43 in the video.

I do define myself by the actions I take. "I am what I do"

That's not the point I was making. The point I was making is that music is one of my passions. The point of the original post, was that women are not attracted to routines, but attracted to me. The fact that I'm living a life and having fun. Which is something you can't buy from a dating coach.


Most girls I date are also singers. We share a common ground, a common interest. I didn't mean all girls want to date me because I can sing a song. Because that would never be true.

When I was joined to the style life academy and getting my money stolen from me; Neil Strass said (in so many words) "How you live your life outside the night club, will always be more attractive than what you do inside the club"

Forget the singing thing, I was using it your example as an analogy to a larger point about game in general, which you seem to now be completely ignoring. I made this clear. Either you didn't read what I said properly or you're being deliberately obtuse.