This is something I've been turning over and over in my head for a number of weeks, brought on in no small part by the apparent general attitude of some girls I've been picking up. As a sort of preface to what I anticipate being a long-winded theory/rant, I refer you to the story about the Italian girl from a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.puaforum.co.uk/pua-genera...ugging-me.html

Whilst I recognise, after some advice, that this interaction was not only salvageable but could've worked to my advantage, it posed a more fundamental question about the type of girls I was trying to pick up and the sort of game I was running on them. Is this idea of being a 'player' really what girls want?

Tyler Durden, a man who has taught me (and many others) a plethora of mind-blowing social dynamics, puts a massive stress on being honest and unashamed of who you are, what you want and what you value, and I very much agree. Lying in order to get a woman into bed is, in my book, unacceptable. As a socially awesome guy then, there are certain truths about me that girls will, one way or another, know about:

1) I know my own values and I know what I want, both from life and from other people.
2) I am here to enjoy myself, whatever this involves. For me, this involves meeting people, being sociable and pulling attractive girls.
3) I am able to do these things because I am centered and confident, and believe that my talking to a person/group of people is the best thing that could happen to them.

So far, there is nothing objectionable. In fact, my attractiveness is increasing gradually and relentlessly. What about these:

4) Whilst I find you attractive and fun to talk to, at the end of the day I have options and I genuinely don't give a shit whether I have an interaction with you or not.
5) I am not here on a relationship-hunt. I am here because I want to get to know pretty girls with a view to having a casual, open relationship with them.

These are truths about me. They cannot be changed, nor am I willing to change them, even if I could. But as I have implied above, the last two do not sit at all well with the majority of girls I meet. Perhaps a description would be appropriate here:

These girls are lovely people. They're polite, pleasant to talk to and make excellent girlfriends (having been out with one who probably falls into this camp). They are usually very pretty but don't necessarily know it - they do not, for example, walk around with virtually nothing on except half a vat of orange fake tan and make-up that has been applied with a trowel. They are, however, uptight and very insecure, which I feel sure is the reason so many of them have boyfriends (for the validation). They would be very unlikely to have sex, sober, with a guy they were not in a relationship with, and even less likely to have sex with a guy who is promiscuous. They are not centered in their own reality, believe all the bullshit social conditioning throws at them (eg I'm going to marry my boyfriend because we love each other and love lasts forever) and need validation from external sources. Essentially, they are the exact opposite to us.

Now relate this information to some of the things I mentioned earlier. Like the Italian Girl. Like the dozens of girls I chat to every week. They are attracted, extremely attracted in fact, but when Truth 4 and Truth 5 rear their heads, there is an issue. They like you and want to get with you, but want to know that you just want them. They want the validation of knowing that it will end in a relationship, and you being honest and saying that if she doesn't want to get with you you'll just go and chat to someone else isn't going to help.

So what question am I really asking here? Honestly, after about a million words of text, I don't know. I know that getting into a game of lying to girls about what I want in order to get into their knickers is unthinkable - besides being lame it is just plain wrong, but if this truth telling is putting up such walls in these interactions, there seem to be but two options - change what I want (ie go out searching for a girl to start a relationship with) or sarge different girls (ones that are more confident, centered and adventurous when it comes to relationships and sex).

Discuss.

I'm new to all this but just from my experience when it comes to 'natural players' , they are never happy until they start respecting women and accept to themselves that they need companionship as much as women (so clearly) do. I think for all blokes with a sense of adventure and lovers of the experience ladder this whole thing is just a stepping stone. The important thing is not to forget that we don't need to validate ourselves by sleeping with endless meaningless women and just to enjoy it until a point.
I'm no player and have to respect women less to succeed at this!

Tomo427

Cheers for the responses guys, some useful insights.

To answer your questions Adam, I've entered the community fresh out of two years of being in Relationship Land. I wanted a fulfilling relationship with a special girl and everything that went with it. But following a break up with my ex just over a year ago, I just began to change what I wanted. Maybe it was social conditioning influencing me, maybe something I discovered on my own, but I began to realise I didn't want to be tied down to a relationship. I wanted to experience women as a varied pleasure rather than a (for want of a better word) chore.

Anyway, roll forward about a year, I've become part of the community and learned how to pick up beautiful girls, which is just dandy. To be honest, yes, if the right girl came along, I'd gladly enter a proper relationship with her, but there's no way of telling a girl is right for this just from meeting her in a bar or a club. Hence, at the moment, there's only one girl who could get me to commit, and I've known her for nearly 3 years. Any girl I randomly meet would need to be as good a match as she is for me to commit to a proper thing.

Perhaps I need to communicate to these girls, in a more clear way, that any girl I find attractive has the potential to be relationship material, but that actually, if I do pick her to have a relationship with, she's got to be something special.

Thanks for the questions Adam, they've made me think carefully and really opened my eyes about what I want from this game.

Hey Buddy, just be careful with statements like this 'Hence, at the moment, there's only one girl who could get me to commit, and I've known her for nearly 3 years' That by you knowing her for this long and/or just being friends with her is helpful to your endeavors and not detrimental. We all know that having a 'soft spot' for a girl we know but haven't fucked can lead to weakness and in some cases the dreaded 'oneitis'.