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Before Sunrise - K, what does anyone get from this!?! -
21-11-2009, 01:15 PM
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Obviously don’t take this stuff personally, but I’d like to know what you think people can get from this !  Ok… Some random thoughts on it.. Some nice comfort games, such as the question one. She is actually a pretty interesting girl – damn I wish all girls were that interesting (and that easy  )I think if anything it is an example of how not to go about things. The man is so awful in many ways with the lady – she has to re-initiate initial conversation, has to initiate the kiss. He is basically not in control for the most part, doesn’t lead etc…. My taking is that he is essentially shit with women, meets one that is half-interesting and attractive enough, and falls over the top in love! Even then he only barely seduces her - The only reason the interaction works is that it is so obviously unrealistic! Does he even get her contact details!? So lame!! The interactions and overall plot seem extremely contrived to me - artificial and completely alien to my experience. I guess it shows how tough it is to actually act and write the minute details of interactions – especially romantic ones. We are some of the few people lucky enough to have sufficient experience with this stuff that we can almost see how things will pan out. Tonight, tomorrow, Monday and Tuesday I’ll be interacting with real women. I fucking hope I learn nothing from that complete pussy of a man! I take back my suggestions of developing beta-game – it is foul!! Anthony! p.s. I skipped through bits of it due to a low concentration span….     
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(#2)
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26-11-2009, 04:04 AM
Amen Kowalski - you big girl! ;-)
It is an awesome film and a definate to anyone who hasn't seen it; yes it is only a film and nothing in life works as smoothly etc but there are some good things to take away from it too. Anthony, if you use the film as a source rather than a fool-proof template then you'll get a lot more out of it....but each to their own.
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kowalski (26-11-2009) | ||
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26-11-2009, 09:52 AM
hey man,
I liked your reply - your articulation was good. If this were a discussion it would be an interesting one! Ah the romantic! But are you overly sentimental sir, like the vast majority of the hapless and unawakened masses? I guess what you're saying is that I'm missing the point, being too pragmatic about it (eg, did he 'close her' properly etc), and missing the main point (the beauty etc of the interaction, the romance, and the moment). Really what I'm saying is that: For me, the interactions didn't seem realistic - I put this down to the difficulty of acting this stuff out, and the fact that my recent plethora of experiences and intuition in this (much more than the average member of the public, and indeed the film review community, and—being brutally honest—most of the PU guys I’ve met) gives me an indication of what is a realistic interaction between people who have just met of the opposite sex. Had I watched this pre-game, I might have thought it realistic. But now, with a continual layer of experience, I do not think so. I think it misses so many of the subtleties of the beauty and delicacy of a romantic interaction. The film and acting just didn't click with me, or my experiences. Yes, men are not expected to be perfect (I’m aware of that!), and we talked about that recently in person! And yes, I’ve had similar experiences (and of course they are incredible), so my reaction here is not due to being a robotosized PUA! On another point, I consider myself to be a pragmatic romantic (with experience of incredibly romantic and consequently painful relationships). Surely you would also agree with my that the stuff we have learned through all of this has given us control – control that we can make this stuff happen in our lives, and control that we can ‘hold ourselves back’ from too much sentimentality (if I fell for every girl I met I’d be an emotional wreck). This kind of film (and often peoples’ reaction to it) seems to me to fit into the mould that ‘things just happen’, and you ‘can’t control this kind of stuff’. This annoys me! A female friend the other day was telling me about her interpretation of the film - she absolutely loved it, and subscribed to the ‘chance’ view of things. For example, due to logistical events a girl I’ve been dating is now living with me for 1 week before flying off forever into Asia. With my experience, I now know I should control my emotions. I have been through too much of this kind of thing before to suffer it again! But equally, I know that us meeting was not pure chance alone – I saw her, thought she was cute, then spoke to her etc… With a developed set of skills like ours you see the tragedy and unnecessity of missed opportunity – now when I see it in people’s lives it pisses me off. I saw this in this film so much. For me, it was only testament to the artificiality of the film that it continued. I now know, if I meet an incredible girl, I will be damn sure to actually make it happen in future (get contact details rather than agreeing to meet in a number of months, when, almost 100% likely and understandably, with will have met other people and forgot about it a bit). I also know that if I don’t lead the interaction, it is likely to fuck up. In this films case, the fact that the girl was leading so much seemed so unrealistic to me. So I saw that as a bad example – such was the level of unrealism to me that it seemed likely to continue this in other people’s lives. I have a sneaking suspicious that if you watched it more recently (perhaps after getting into this scene, and the associated experience etc.), with an open mind, you might see it differently. In any case differences of opinion are fine. But you damn well will hear my opinion on a number of artistic mediums (your opinion of anal foreplay/sex does little to undermine your tastes in other ‘art’ etc!; or your use of the word 'bitch' etc... ). Go and see Bicycle Thieves, and Dead Man’s Shoes, for example! You are a philosopher, so your natural inclination is to debate and defend, especially in this public context, with so much material behind you already! Lets see if we can steer this away from arguing about opinion (people have different ones, and such arguments are the stuff of futility and other forums!), and onto more broader topics! Hopefully this isn’t too unstructured to make no sense! Anthony
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28-11-2009, 06:15 PM
Sounds like you are trying to validate yourself to us all...? ;-)
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29-11-2009, 08:49 AM
Adam is higher value - I once saw him pick a girl up on his shoulders in a bar. She was laughing, I was laughing, and he was in the moment. Utterly brilliant.
But earlier that night he was too nervous to speak to a bunch of girls!! He was in the moment (shitting himself). Then I spoke to them (weird pick-up guy) and a bunch of other weird pick-up guys (including adam) surrounded them and spoke to them too. Kind of like an army. They were surrounded. We then immediately vacated area. Like an army. Utterly brilliant! kowalski - see my reply, and hit back with any interesting thoughts etc. Note: you at the 'K' in the title of this thread! If I get anything useful from this thread it will be useful!
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03-12-2009, 10:03 PM
hi man
I liked your reponse. When I've more time, I'll think and hit back with a reply. This seems like a good example of deflaming an 'argument' tone and just having the interesting content. We are not bitching and moaning here (and for an internet forum that is a minor miracle!). Maybe you're becoming more tactful too !!
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21-01-2010, 07:10 PM
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nice! Anyways, the stuff you say about not reigning in the emotions is interesting. I had a magical night a couple of nights ago with a girl I saw in a queue, leaving the eurostar, at around 11pm. And being in the moment and enjoying it was brilliant. (for seduction note – I wasn't feeling great, she seemed too hot to speak to, and I made a few excuses not to. But I did it anyway and it was all good; bit of nerves are fine.) But how does this stuff relate to the conversations we had about regulating your emotions, prior to having them? Eg, only seeing a girl a few times a week etc. [to prevent yourself getting attached, prior to being attached] Though I'm not massively active in this scene any more, I am continually seeing a few people. So I presume are you. Do you rein in at all? In some respects, I want to see them all, a lot. But I know I will get more enduring happiness by balancing my life out. I remember a girl in Manchester I had to make a purposeful effort to distance myself from. I was getting too attached; she isn't the kind of girl you want to get attached to (when I 'met' her she had a long term boyfriend, though she pleaded for exclusivity for a while with me). OK, any interesting thoughts welcome. cya
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