Shit just realised I said I was out with Hustler at the start of my previous FR! I actually meant to say I was out with Flickster. Apologies for this - it was late, I was tired, etc.

Well I'm off out tonight, tomorrow night and Saturday night with the newly emerging Liverpool PUA community. I'm keen to get back in the field, having been resting up since last weekend.

I've noticed two things happening this week in my general behaviour which are new. The first is that I am suddenly going kino with everyone I meet. I mean, literally, everyone!!

On the train asking if a feller would move so I could get past, I put my hand on his back and said thanks.

In work, with a mate I see once a week or so there, we had a laugh and as I cracked a joke, again I put my hand on his arm.

Doing some campaigning work last night with two of our younger female members - joking with both of them and going kino.

With my housemates, high fives and arms around them and stuff.

This is remarkable, but I feel it really helps build rapport. Its an entirely new thing for me to do. I am doing it unconsciously. But that in itself shows that on some level something is changing.

The second thing that is different is eye contact with girls I walk past in the street. Ok so that's a massively chodey thing to say. But I've caught myself making eyes with them, and not looking away when they look back.

None of this is conscious. And that's the scary thing :D

So, three more nights out coming up. Bring it on...

A good night. Like, a really good night! I've had a mentally busy day. In work from 9am-4pm, straight out doing door knocking in the pissing rain and freezing cold from 4.30pm-6.30pm. Then straight to Anfield to sit in the freezing cold watching Liverpool pathetically whimper to a 1-0 win against a team that sounds like a bowel infection. And then straight out into town from there with the lads.

But I don't feel tired. I'm just buzzing. Calmly, gently buzzing.

We went to a pub called the Flute first. I didn't open female sets in there. But on one of the guys advice, I just made conversation with anyone around me. Even just shit stuff - asking some guys what the Juve score finished, asking others what bars were good to go to. That got me in a social mood, and it was great.

We went to a packed bar, and the four of us split up and wandered around on our own for a bit. As we did, I tried to move away from openers, and from the custard opener (sorry K! Its become a comfort zone, and I need to move away from that. But it served a grand purpose!)

I chatted with one or two girls briefly. Just opening asking how they were. One girl was with her friend, and had a massive 'Eighteen Today' badge on. So I went up to them ignoring the girl with the badge, and said to the other one 'Hey - is it your birthday today or something?' They laughed, it was fun. I still had a scarf on from the Liverpool game (not a Liverpool scarf - but a nice soft red and grey striped one). So many of the sets I opened said they liked it. I instantly took it off and said 'Ok, ok, you can wear it. But only for a minute.'


Then we went outside to the smoking area. I opened a two set. I isolated with one of them, not very attractive. But she was just really, really great fun to talk too. We talked for like half an hour and ended up exchanging our most embarrassing secrets. She was great. The conversation was so lively and energetic and fun. I number closed her, and would like to stay friends with her. I could feel her trying to ramp up kino, but I didn't want to kiss this girl. I didn't reciprocate. One of my wings kiss and number closed her mate. It was such good fun.

Back out of the bar into Bumper. Now like I say, I'd been trying to let go of openers. I don't like canned openers. In the last few weeks I've been using them as a prelude to a normal conversation. This won't do in the long run. I don't want to have to go through a procedure before I can talk to a girl. I want to just... Well, talk to them!

I spotted a two set sat on a sofa looking bored. So I walked up to them...

CO: Hey

HBs: Hiya.

CO: You guys ok?

HBs: Umm... Yeah, I guess.

CO: Its just you looked so bored, I wanted to come and cheer you up.

I plonked myself down next to them, and we chatted a little. Just so easy.

The whole night just felt so relaxed. We weren't four guys on a mission to meet women. We were four guys having a laugh, enjoying each other's company, and occasionally turning away to open any sets that we felt like opening. I absolutely loved how chilled out the whole thing was.

We didn't stay out late - I've got work tomorrow and need to be up at 7.30am (obvs that is less important than writing a field report before bed!). So we called it a night just before 1am.

As we left the bar, there were two girls outside. One of them had this weird multicoloured jumper on. I grinned as I walked past:

CO: Did you knit that yourself?

HB: No no, I bought it.

CO: You're lying to me! I can tell you knitted it yourself, its great.

HB: Giggles

CO: I'm gonna have to give you my email address so you can send me the pattern. I want one!

And I walked off - joking with one of the wings because we both went in to open the set at the same time. It was really great.

I was just so relaxed tonight. I was in the moment, I didn't retreat into my head at any point. And it was just natural. There was no game. After a while, there weren't even any of the openers which are still loyally filed away on my iPhone's cheat sheet. I just chatted to girls tonight. And that was really great.

I've got a hell of a long way to go. But things are just beginning to make sense for me. They're beginning to fall into place. Its such a fucking brilliant thing. It really is.

More soon, I'm sure...

Great stuff Covert. I like the fact your leaving openers behind you now. You can move into real conversation straight away without trying to engineer it from canned to reality.

Perfect.

Ah the irony of learning game properly.

Sounds like a perfect night, nice one

Ummm not quite...

I got my phone bill in my emails this afternoon. Its my biggest ever phone bill - £92 for the last month.

I've gone back over it, and a huge chunk of that has been spent texting / calling girls I first met by asking them for their views on the correct temperature for custard.

Sorry K, but technically you're liable for about £35!

You'll hear from my lawyer in the morning...

well i think the dolphin shaving was well funny so well done mate, girls love animals so they find things like that interesting,

one word .................02 :)

Is that a word? :D

Had a day 2 last night with a girl I met in town about 2 weeks ago. HB7, met her and K- and #-closed her when we first met. The pick-up was actually pretty good - custard opener, and then flowing into all sorts of conversation about whatever else. Plenty of kino, lashings of it in fact. Blasting through a few shit tests. And then an easy kiss close at the end.

We'd been texting on and off through the week. We had arranged to meet at the end of last week, but then she flaked on me on Wednesday. I responded by just saying 'That's cool, let me know when you're free.'

I didn't hear from her on Thursday or all day Friday. Assumed this one was going to just peter out. Then Friday night, she texts me saying simply: "Have a good weekend x"

I wasn't having that - what an arsey, attention seeking text!! So I called her out on it, telling her not to send such arsey texts (in a jokey way, of course). I told her she was lucky as I didn't often give second chances. So the frame was strongly set.

We met last night in Hannah's Bar in town. Had a few drinks. Immediately I began to go kino - playfully touching her arm, bear hugging her and telling her how sweet and cute she was.

One thing I did throughout the night was play the 'keep score' game. I'm sure I've read this somewhere before, but it wasn't something I planned to use. It just flowed. At one point she said something cutesy funny, and I mocked her on it. I said 'You're a really lovely person. Well done you can have a point. When you get ten points, you can be my friend.'

And then through the night, I used it as an anchor. If she did something I liked, I'd jokily say 'Wow, you're up to four points now!'

And then a few minutes later, it'd be 'Oh my God, you're a disgrace. Right, you're down to minus three now. Must try harder!'

I guess this is kinda push pull. I didn't do it from the point of view of routine. It wasn't pre-meditated, I didn't think 'I'll use this really cool push-pull routine, it'll have her dripping!'

I just said it, and then thought it was quite funny, so I kept coming back to it. It added an interesting dynamic to the conversation.

We left for another bar - Hannah's was getting loud and we're both partially deaf (me from playing drums since I was 10 years old - I have trouble hearing when there's more than usual background noise. Her from an operation on her ears when she was a kid). We went to Bumper, and sat on the sofas in the corner. I was now focussing on moving towards a kiss. I hesitated for a minute or so. She was there, right next to me, practically all over me, and kino was still being ramped up. But I froze when I wanted to kiss her. I had images in my head, literally, of her shrieking "what the fuck are you doing? Fucking pervert, get the fuck off!"

But I thought it through logically: she's on a date with me, we kissed last week, the date is going great. She wants to kiss you. SHE WANTS YOU TO KISS HER.

SO FUCKING KISS HER!

I waited for a break in conversation, and then just lent in and kissed her. Easy.

After this we just fell into each other. Anyone watching would have thought we'd been together for months, not hours. She's actually a really nice girl, she was really good fun to talk too. Again I found, much to my absolute delight, that I had no problem whatsoever maintaining a bouncy, fun conversation. Say anything. I'm really having fun speaking to people at the moment. Its effortless, but its becoming natural.

I also said something to her that had a major impact on her behaviour - in a positive way. It was later on in the night, post kissing her, and we'd been talking non stop for 3 or 4 hours. She said something I thought was funny. I laughed heartily (just laugh guys - it feels fucking great!). And then I smiled at her and said, without thinking about it: "You're fun."

And she absolutely loved it! She started kissing me on the cheek loads, wrapping herself around me even more, getting even more excitable, hugging me loads, practically lying down on the sofa wrapped in my arms. The gear shift in her behaviour was dramatic.

I've only thought back over that bit since. But I can now see sort of why she liked it so much. Telling her 'you're fun' was validation for her. After 4 great hours of fun conversation about everything and anything, I had told her she had passed my test. I am a natrually fun person, and I am very good at putting that across to girls (if I may say so myself :D). By telling her I thought she was fun, I was indicating to her that she was meeting my standards. It was like a little pat on the head. Or something much less patronising.

And then something else occurred to me, echoing from RSD: Girl's confidences and realities are both weak and strong. Her reality was intended strong: She was a girl, on a date, with a guy vying for her affection in order that she would allow him to mate with her. Therefore she was the prize. I was the candidate. Logic tells us that the pressure was on me last night.

But this isn't how it works. Girls are exactly the same as guys in this respect: insecurity. As guys, we're insecure that we're not funny enough, not good looking enough, too fat, too thin, too short, too tall, too boring, etc.

And my date was no different. Not in the slightest. Getting ready to come out last night, she'd have been nervous. She'd have been thinking 'Don't fuck this up'. She'd have been thinking 'I hope he likes me, I hope I don't say anything stupid, I hope I don't freak him out', etc. Every girl experiences these emotions. I'm not saying exploit that fact. Just understand it and accept it. Telling her 'you're fun' was her que to relax. I was telling her she had succeeded. She had nothing to worry about, I had made my mind up. The tension that released in her was extraordinary.

We finished the date. Every bone in my body was screaming at me, 'Invite her back to your place. Invite her back to your place.'

But I didn't. I've done that the last few Day 2s, and it never seems to happen. I could sense it wasn't going to happen tonight either. So, I didn't ask. I wanted everything to be on my terms. I was the chooser, I was the decider. Me inviting her back, and her saying 'no', would have shattered that frame.

So, hopefully, soon I'll invite her back to my place. I still haven't got round to F-closing with anyone since resuming my game, so this is something I'd like to move towards. But I'm really in no rush. It'll come sooner or later. I don't need to push too hard for that, its no big deal.

Coming up: Meeting two wings in the pub tonight for a quiet pint, and NO SARGING! :D Its important to give it a rest sometime as well.

Out tomorrow night, when I will be sarging.

And on Friday afternoon I fly to Poland for the weekend. That'll be fun. Gaming girls in other languages, using 100% pure body language. That's going to be absolutely mind blowing...

Nicely written! and I like the deconstruction bit at the end

Loving your response to her text.

Went out in town tonight, pre-Poland. Marks out of 10 - I'd say 6 for tonight. It could have been better. But it could have been so much worse.

Met the Liverpool guys in town for another evening of sarging. I warmed up by just being sociable. Asking guys what band was playing in the bar we were in, just generally talking to people around me.

I opened pretty well, and actually opened using a few non-canned openers. I say non canned - I guess in a way one of them sort of was. One of the bars we went too has one of those 'Text your message here' screens. I noticed one of the messages read "Pierce Brosnan dead! Heart attack strikes again!"

So that became my opener for a while. Asking girls if it was true. A few had seen the same message on the screen, giving me an obvious root. Others needed explaining.

I opened a three set with this, jousting with the girls. After a few minutes, some guy smoking weed comes over, obviously part of their group. He butts in and mutters 'Are you doing her?', referring to me and the target, an HB8.

I put my arm around him, turned to the girls, and said 'This guy wants to know if I'm doing you. What should we tell him?'. A bit more friendly banter with the guy, and he was neutralised. Make guys your friend - this gives huge social value. Anyway, I number closed the HB8 after 15 minutes of fun conversation. Jordan her name was - and it turns out she's only 17. I'm 26. I guess that makes me a bad man... Although to be fair she looked much older.

We went to Bumper. I spotted a gorgeous 2 set sat on some sofas. I hesitated. I didn't want to open them, and went back into my head a little. After a minute or two, my wing asked 'Any sets around?'. I said 'Yeah, well there's a two set on that sofa down there.'

Immediately I regretted this. I knew my wing wouldn't let me not open them - he was doing his job well. 'Go on then, open' he said.

'What with?' I replied. Fucking stupid question. Before he could answer, I had realised what I was doing. Talking myself out of opening a high quality 2 set with any excuse I could find. I broke away from my wing, and walked past the girls, focussing on the back part of the club which was closed off. I turned and looked down at them.

'Hey girls... Is that bit of the club open yet, or is there a private party on there or something'. This led to a minute or two of chat, with me focussing on another HB8. They had to get off after a moment - they'd been waiting for their mate before going onto another bar, and when their mate arrived back she dragged them both away. But I was happy enough. I'd opened a potentially difficult set, and I'd done it without a canned opener. Excellent!

It got to 1am, and I had to leave my wings and go and meet my non-PUA mates. As much as I love sarging, I also love my friends. They've been good to me over the years, and I do tend to neglect them. So I headed off, assuming that was the end of the night for sarging.

Met my mates, and had a few drinks. After a while, it was just two of us left, back in Bumper. I was having a bit of a go at this lad. He told me how he's got off with some girl that another of my housemates really likes. I found this really shit, and I was (and am) angry with him for putting some girl ahead of one of his close friends. I told him as much, and I'll tell him again tomorrow, when we're both sober.

I asked him, why not meet some new girls? Why do you have to restrict yourself to the girls in our social circle? He responded with 'Ok then, go and talk to someone'.

I didn't give a shit anymore if he knew about my PUA activities or not (I tend to keep them to myself). We walked a few feet through the club, and I spied a 2 set, HB7 and HB8. I strode up to them, and opened, using the custard opener (some things never die!).

CO: Girls, I need a quick female opinion on something. Custard: Do you like it hot or cold?

HB7: Hot! Always hot!

HB8: Custard? I can't stand custard!

CO: [Grabs the HB8, spins her around so she's facing away from him, and pushes her away] That's just weird, you're not allowed to be in this conversation anymore. [Turns back to the HB7] So, hot custard. Tell me more...

They absolutely loved it! My housemate was stood there like a lemon (worst winging ever!), and was just watching amazed as I quickly began to make these girls laugh and enjoy the interaction. I turned and isolated with the HB7 (I'd have preferred the HB8, but the way we were standing made it difficult). We started to play around. We did funny dancing, I let her wear my scarf. It was so easy. So, so, so easy.

Now, kino was flowing by now. I had my hand on her back, pulling her into me, setting positive boundaries. Making sure she knew it was flirty. And she was reciprocating, pulling herself closer into me, pushing her body up against mine.

But... But... BUT... I didn't close. I could have leant in and kissed her at any point I wanted. But I didn't. Why the fuck didn't I do that? Why? I'm kicking myself now, I'd done the fucking hard work. This was the easy bit. If she wasn't interested, I'd have had IODs - Indicators of Disinterest. This is a new concept I am working with. Fuck IOIs. They're hard work to follow, and generally the rule for me is that as long as a girl is still talking to you and is responding to kino, then she's interested. You can assume attraction. If you have IODs - if she's acting distant, pulling away, blocking your kino, then you know to back off. IODs are much, much more helpful than IOIs, in my opinion.

Anyway, so yeah, I'd done everything right. To this point, it was a near-perfect pick up. The opener was only dwelled on for a second before ploughing into conversation. I was high energy, I was funny, I played around with her, I kept everything right, and she responded perfectly to everything I did. All I had to do was move in, and kiss her.

But I didn't.

A few minutes later, and the chance was gone. My mate, who had been chatting to the other girl, had run out of things to say, and as such the other girl was now essentially cock-blocking me. She stole the HB7 away for a few seconds, and suggested they go outside for a cigarette. My mate said he wanted a drink. So I said my goodbyes to the girls. I did try and number close her, but she said 'Just meet us outside in a minute for a cigarette'. So I left it. Maybe I should have ploughed on here, but I was conscious the moment had passed.

So obviously plenty of positives to take, but I have no idea why I didn't go for that kiss-close. Its like playing right back, getting the ball just by the corner flag in your own half, dribbling the length of the pitch around the opponent's strikers, midfields, Mascheranos, and defences, and then effortlessly rounding the keeper only to balloon the ball miles over an open goal. Argh!

We left shortly after this. Another of our mates had been refused entry to the club on account of how fucked he was (wise move on the bouncer's part, actually - he is fucked). And then my ex-girlfriend turned up. She came through the club door as we were circling around the bar. I was in a well charged social mood, and so grinned and waved at her. She looked terrified, and then blanked me, obviously out with some bloke and not knowing how to react. I didn't want to be around after this. Quite apart from having to watch her around the place with some other feller, I didn't want to open any sets thinking 'she might be watching'. I wouldn't have been focussed on the girl I was speaking too, but rather on the idea that my ex was watching, so I'd better not fuck it up. That isn't healthy. So we called it a night.

Thoughts

The ejected K-close is obviously the grand fuck up of the night. But there are positives to take none the less. I am moving away even from canned openers now. It felt great to be out in the field and just being sociable. And I opened a set with my non-PUA mate in tow. That's definitely worth noting progress.

I felt early on in the night, and especially while I was with proper PUA wings, that I could have done more to go kino in my sets. I didn't quite bounce early on like I usually do, and a few times I had to consciously try and drag my energy levels up. But then, I've now been up for almost 24 hours. Sometimes your energy levels do fall away a little.

Guys, I need a male opinion on something: Is it ok for a 26 year old to leer over a 17 year old? :D

Yes

YouTube - Nathan Barley - Splashing a few tonsils

LOL!!!

.......Yep that's me!

Random comment, not relating to anything you have mentioned here, but I feel the need to say that Liverpool is an awesome place to go for a night out. Went there last month on a Satuday and I have never seen so many fitties out as I did that night around Concert Square, including nights out when I've been in Kavos/Malia/insert other shithole that has been destroyed by British tourists. There was a point in the night when me and my mates just stopped on one of the corners outside, simply to have a concentrated 5 minute perv on the talent that was streaming around us. I think the night was truly magnificent because I ended up pulling one of the fittest girls I have ever set eyes on, gorgeous Dublin accent too. Smoking hot. Need to get myself over to scouseland a lot more this year.

Anyway back to work...

6 weeks on, and this seems to remain true.

I was out last night with the Liverpool lads. I opened a few sets. A seated three set, a standing two set, a two set at the bar, a three set who sat in the seat where I'd left my jacket. Opening is fine now.

However, I still have a problem with persisting with my sets. In all sets last night, I ejected as soon as I felt slightly uncomfortable or felt as if I didn't have anything else to say. I didn't drive onwards.

I am still using some opinion openers, and I actually feel as if this is starting to work against me. I go over, get their opinions on guys wearing Ugg boots. They tell me, one way or another. And I say 'Great, thanks. Bye then' and I eject.

The next step is to plough on with conversation. This is the hump I need to get over now. When I stay on after an opener, I know I'm proving that the 'Guys, I need a quick 30 second opinion...' bit of the opener was just a lie.

So I think partly its because I want to eject before they've had the chance to reject. But also partly because I'm finding it difficult to switch between canned and natrual stuff.

Solutions for this:

1. Was it DeAngelo that said: Make the ho say no? Whoever it was, I could do with some of that. I need to talk to girls until they make it 100% clear that they're done talking to me - by walking away, asking me to leave, making an excuse, whatever else. I need to just force myself to stay in set, until it becomes natural to do.

2. Get away from canned opinion openers. These are easy to do - that's why I do them. But at some point, you need to move on from that canned opinion, which is the point when they think 'Shit, he's not going away yet' and you think 'Shit, they're thinking "Shit, he's not going away yet"'. Juggler says its ok to admit 'Ok, so look I just wanted to ask you guys that so I had an excuse to come talk to you'. State intent, theres nothing wrong with it.

But either way, I need to work out how to stay in set longer, and to do it constantly. 30 second conversations are easy now. I can do them with anyone. Its the 15 minute conversations which stand out.

More tonight...

Thanks for this post Co, a lot of it I can really relate too.

Its getting the intent vs being entertainment balance right. For me now its more about approaching girls that I've observed a bit and something genuinely interests me about them so I'm not worrying about what I'm doing talking to them.

The flip side to this is its a bit more disheartening if it goes pear shaped as opposed to when using the scatter gun approach.

Keep us posted and how you feel about your approaches. I'm interested to hear how your getting on.

I've not posted anything more about the weekend passed yet, as I wanted to just sit back a little, and let it settle in my mind before I wrote anything down. I usually write FRs immediately following a night out while its all fresh in my mind. However, my concern isn't with the specifics of individual sets from Saturday night. My concern is broadly with my whole approach, and specifically, openers.

My last FR spoke of my frustration at not being able to stay in set. That I go in, talk for 30 seconds, and then eject. I linked this back to the use of canned opinion openers - that once I'd got a girls opinion, I felt a fraud when I then stayed in set longer than the question permitted.

Saturday night was much the same. I stuck stubbornly to canned opinion openers, and I didn't get very far. One or two interesting conversations flowed, but all in all, I felt low energy and like I'd hit a wall.

The very last set I opened on Saturday night, however, stands out as being different. I was in Bumper with my wing, and I was explaining to him my canned opinion openers frustration. It was late, and we were planning on calling it a night before long. However, I spied a 2 set at the end of the bar. I approached, walked half a yard past them, and then turned, and grinned: 'Oh, my, God! You guys look like fun!'

And I turned and slotted into a conversation with them, that lasted for 10 minutes or so before I ejected and returned to my wing.

I was chuffed after this. Its not perfect. I'm not going to go round telling girls that I think they're all the most amazing fun in the world. But I really do want to abandon opinion openers completely.

My aim in PUA is to become a natural direct gamer. Naturals don't go around asking girls pre-planned opinion questions. They just go around talking to girls. They just approach girls they like, and speak to them. I don't know how they do it. But I'm going to learn.

The opinion opener has served its purpose. Its helped me eridicate my fear of approaching girls. For me, going out and speaking to girls is now a normal thing to do. 2 months ago, it would have been an outrageous thing to do! So it has been useful.

However, now I've got a feel for the saddle, I need to get shut of the stabalisers and learn to ride on my own two feet.

This is my goal for the weekend coming: to go back to square one, and to see how many girls I can open, not worrying about the outcome, but rather just getting used to going in and talking to girls. If I fuck it up, fine. I've learned that doing that doesn't matter.

But I won't fuck it up. Girls like being approached. They like talking. And when I approach them, and don't even need some random question to provide an excuse to talk to them, my value is going to shoot through the fucking roof.

The foundations have been laid. Its time to begin building on them.

You're body language sounds a little pre-planned too. Don't think that you need to walk past and pretend you suddenly noticed them.

Great work though. It's a step in the right direction towards your new goal.

Bang on
 

Bang on! This is where I'm at the moment. The worst thing for me is 'God! I don't know what to say!'. I can go in without worrying about what to say as there's enough going through my mind let alone what words are about to come out my mouth. So I will fake it till I make it!

Sound's to me that canned openers have served a purpose for you but it doesn't mean you have to lose them completely.

You said last week that you eject to quick... This happened to me last week too... so your post resonates with me at the moment.

I'm sure I can open pretty easy (with a crutch at the moment). Has anyone got any advice on how to progress are the initial 2 - 3 minute approach? Are there any posts someone can direct me to?

Tonight was frustrating. I opened a handful of sets. 4 or 5 probably. But I didn't stay in any set for any amount of time. I failed to use non-canned non-opinion openers.

Worse, I had a massive bout of AA. My wing spied a 4 set, proper gorgeous girls, short tight skirts, the lot. He said to open them. 'With what?' I asked. I said I'd open them in a minute... And I just stood there. 3 minutes later, they walked away. Chance missed. And worse, I was left angry with myself. What was going to go wrong if I opened them?

I did get a number close, although it was from a girl who was part of a three set that one of my wings opened. I didn't have any problem hitting for her number, that was easy.

But I'm just not opening very well right now. Tonight when I opened, I didn't feel confident. I sort of feel lethargic with opening right now. I need to burst out of this. How? Fuck knows.

Look, the best night I've ever had sarging was a night when I opened absolutely everyone. Almost literally, there was hardly a set that went by that I didn't open. I was supreme that night, and got the results to show for it.

Since then, my game has almost become lazy. I'm not putting the level of effort in that I really should be putting in. I think I need to get myself back in that frame of opening fucking everything I see. No excuses. Fat, thin, gorgeous or not, just fucking open.

Open everything.

My sticking points are now as follows:

1. Openers - opinion openers funnel me into narrow conversations which I don't know how to move onto actual conversation.
2. When I do get into a conversation with a girl, I don't actually know what I'm doing. There's never any thought to 'Ok, I'm now going to disqualify myself' or 'I'm currently building rapport' or 'I am escalating more into kino now' or 'Lets qualify her'. None of that. I think I need to structure my game a little better. I need to actually think about why I'm saying what I'm saying to a girl. What is its purpose? What goal do I want it to achieve?

I feel like I've hit a bit of a wall again. I'll ruminate on this tomorrow, and see how I get on tomorrow night. But right now, I feel pretty frustrated.

Last night there was a two set of 9s in the corner of the bar. No one was approaching. They were well off in one corner and there was no way to avoid a very visible blow out if it went that way.

To add to that not only had I my wing but we had hooked up with a group of non pua friends. I could see this future of me being blown out spectacularly in front of everyone.
It took me a few minutes to nut up, but then, I turned to my wing said "watch this" and strode over.

I opened, I talked, they laughed, pure gold.

Then the little voice in my head started screaming at me "You're going to run out of things to say, you're going to run out of things to say" This is impossible I can talk like a mofo.

But like a bitch, for no good reason, after doing all the hard work I got up and left.

Sometimes the voice gets the better of us.

Learning is not a liner progression. You make progress, then you stall, maybe even move back a step. The trick is to keep practicing while others quit.

I'm going out again tonight and I bet you are too.

Fuckin damn right I am! I'm angry and pissed off, and thats often when I am at my best.

Thanks Mycroft mate, your post has cheered me up a bit :)

What a lovely night! My first F-close since getting back into my game. And I've gotta say, a first class piece of winging by one of the guys! This was a HB6 who I met a few weeks ago and n-closed. She was out with a friend last night. We met up with them later on, and got them back to my wings house. For a few hours my wing kept her friend busy whilst me and the HB6 had some fun. We then went back to my house, with my wing still taking care of her friend. I've gotta say this was top class stuff - without that winging, I wouldn't have got laid last night. I owe him one.

This was also my first sex in six months, since splitting up with my ex. It's good to have broken that duck - another little chunk of moving on out the way.

Elsewhere in general game, last night all round felt better for me. I opened sets a little easier, and I stayed in them. Now, this is now the bit where I'm going to court puaforum.co.uk criticism, but after a few nights of being frustrated, I stepped back and thought through my game. I spent yesterday reading through a few bits of literature. And in particular, I read parts of Juggler Method and Magic Bullets.

It struck me reading through both that my game for the last few weeks has lacked any structure. PUA is about self improvement, and becoming a person who can naturally recognise and predict social events. But to get to that stage, you need some help.

Previously, I had been using a canned opener, and then just floating aimlessly into conversations with girls. I was getting frustrated with this. It wasn't bearing results.

Juggler Method recommends the use of some structure to your game - having various stages you want to go through, and knowing when you're in each stage. Magic Bullets, of course, recommends routine. Now, I appreciate the problems with routines and canned stuff which people on this forum have. And quite right too - it isn't interacting with a girl, but just saying stuff to her.

Interacting with a girl involves listening to what she says, and then basing your reaction on what she says. In an interaction, the actions of one agent directly affects the actions of another agent.

From this point of view, a routine based approach isn't an interaction. The girl can react in any way she likes, and it doesn't affect what you're going to say or do next. You just move onto the next part of your routine.

Long term, this isn't a style of game I want to pursue. However... Right now, I have much to learn. At the moment, my natural style of game is not productive. I open, and then float into a conversation. I have noticed that in a conversation with a girl, I instinctively go way over the top taking the piss out of her. To the point almost where I tool her for everything she says. I need to learn new ways of talking to girls, I need to learn new modes to speak through.

So, last night, I made a decision: During my learning process, I am going to incorporate various pieces of routine into my game.

An analogy: I've played drums for 16 years, since the age of about 10. For a few years in my early twenties, I was a part time drum teacher, on a Sunday morning in my back room charging beginner drummers £6 for a half hour lesson (hopelessly cheap, but at my peak I had 8 students got me a good wedge for a Sunday morning of easy work!).

Now, after 16 years of drumming, I am obviously pretty good on the drums. I am in a band and play regularly. When we rehearse or even play live, at the beginning of every song, I only have a very rough idea of what I'm going to do through the song. I've reached a level of drumming where improvisation is natural for me. I just play and see what comes out - and usually (hopefully!) its pretty good.

But, that isn't how you learn drums. When a beginner sits down at a drum kit for the first time, I'll teach them a very simple beat, which is the staple of a standard rock beat. I'll make them sit and repeat it again, and again, and again. No variation is allowed. Anything which isn't precisely on-beat is worked on, and worked out until what is played is 100% correct to what I've written down. Then, we progress onto something slightly more complex, and repeat this process.

Then, we might decide to learn a song. We'll go through some CDs, and find a song which is simple enough that a beginner can learn it, but complex enough that he or she will learn from playing that song. And over the course of a few weeks we'll break the song down into small pieces of beats, fills, and anything else, until the whole song is learned. Then, we piece it together, and the drummer can play the whole song - but still only 100% as he or she has learned it.

Improvisation can only take place once these basic elements have been learned. Once a drummer becomes more advanced, they do away with drum music. It is restrictive, and stifles creative talent.

But my point (to this long and winding analogy!) is: when you learn something new, in the early stages, you need to have some script to work with. You need to have bits written down which you're going to use and practice with. You need to practice doing the same things over and over, until your muscle memory takes over and it becomes natural.

To bring this back to PUA - I've decided that I need to just begin to work with a few scripted bits myself. This is all part of my learning curve. And this is an important distinction to make. I am not going to learn routines in order that they can be deployed ruthlessly to the end of seducing women. I am going to use routines to practice talking to girls, to get used to the responses I get to various things, and to begin to understand the principles which underly them.

In time, I'll do away with the sheet music, and I'll begin to improvise. But for now, I need a little help.

Last night, I went out with a short routine ready to go. It was based on a canned opener (custard, of course!), followed by transitioning into a 'friends' test, followed by labelling the girls 'good', 'bad', 'dozy', 'grumpy', whatever. And from there, into conversation.

I managed to perform this routine once. And I was fine with it. I want to practice more over the next few weeks, installing variations on it each time I go out. But I have decided my game learning needs more structure, and as such, I need to make sure every time I go out I am going to try and learn something new.

There is such a long way for me to go. And the ultimate goal, of course, remains to become someone natural and direct. But these routines may just help me plot a course along the way.

...and I really don't know how I went 6 months without sex. Its such good fun!

Top bloody night last night! In total, I think I got about 8 phone numbers!

OK, so 7 of them were from guys off this forum, but that still counts. Right?? :D

I went to Manchester last night to meet the Manchester gang - I won't name you all individually as I'm bound to forget someone, and I wouldn't want that. Suffice it to say, there were bloody millions of you!

Just before I get into the FR (which I'll keep short), just a quick word of thanks to you all for a top night, and for making a Scouse cunt feel so welcome! :)

Right, so, sets. I don't feel as if I opened as many sets as I might have done last night, because it was all very much out of my comfort zone. New people to meet, new places to go... Talking to girls wasn't necessarily always the first thing on my mind.

I did open a few, however. One was at the bar in Mohos. Some really drunk Irish girl and her friend. I opened them with a canned opener, but it just didn't carry through. I was having trouble making myself heard (projection! I must project!), and didn't get past the opener before they were distracted by some song that came on and ran away to dance.

Another set was outside, where Hustler and I headed for some fresh air. A mixed 4 set. K winged away the guy, and Hustler and I went in for the girls. Again, I didn't feel as if that set really clicked either. One of the girls was fucking around with a crutch she'd found (meaning somewhere in Manchester last night some poor bugger was hopping home), and I again had trouble pushing past a canned opener.

Damn canned openers. Seriously, having seen some incredible people at work last night, I feel more than ever that canned stuff is just pointless, and might actually hinder progress.

I did get a kiss close last night. Monkeybuster went into a 2 set, which I tried to help wing. He ejected after a little while, and left me talking to one of the girls. It was fun talking to her, she was a really nice girl. Jaz came over to wing her friend away, and after a few minutes leaned over my shoulder and said she was there for the taking. At that point I didn't really have any plans to kiss this girl, and told Jaz I would be coming out of the set in a minute. But it never really happened. We just kept talking. I was kinoing almost subconsciously, and she was responding. Not kissing her after that would have been like making a wonderful Sunday roast and then not eating your Yorkshire Pudding.

I love Yorkshire Pudding. So we kissed.

This was actually a conscious application of Juggler's 'statements plus questions' approach, and the 'say anything' concept. For example, at one moment conversation just waned. Arctic Monkeys started to play. I grinned and said, 'These guys are cool, They're from Sheffield huh. That's my 4th favourite city in the country. I love the accent they've got there, Full Monty is an amazing film. What do you think?'

It turns out Sheffield was her 3rd favourite city in the UK. During the conversation we also spoke about history and how cool it was to study war at school (leading her to utter the unfortunate statement 'I love Hitler'. I didn't really let her forget that, and she is now in my phone rather tastelessly as Danielle Hitler), we spoke about Stockport (?), and about our preferences for body hair arrangements. I feel I've made progress in beginning to internalise this 'say anything' thing.

Usually now, I'd finish with some action points, criticism, and things to work on for next time. But I won't do that. Last night wasn't quite 100% me in terms of opening, and I was quite happy to just get to know some of the guys who were out. The excuse would be that a strange place and new people pulled me within myself a little, and as such it perhaps isn't fair to go uber critical on anything. I'll do that next time.

Anyway, it was a thoroughly enjoyable night last night, and it was great to meet up with so many top guys and to see and be part of what is a genuinely awesome Manchester community with such a diverse range of styles and abilities. I've said a lot how I wish a similar community would develop in Liverpool, open to allcomers regardless of ability. You are the benchmark we have to work towards.

Onward!

Love,
Adam

Pleasure to have met you last night mate. Good to see all the other guys as well, always a pleasure.

Great pleasure to meet you last night, we need to get our lot down to Liverpool!

Was good to put a face to the name Adam. (And a pretty face it is.. x)

Im feeling that right there, guys lets sort it out.

Covert! It was quality to meet you last night. You're a top lad. It's defo hard to go to different environments and sarge. But I actually really liked Moho. The people were a lot more open to speak to which was cool! Definately a different sort of crowd that you'd get in a 'club club'.

For me yesterday, I was more concerned about opening sets. This is where my issues lie and a fear I want to conquer. I opened a fair few. I had some success and some blow outs. I kissed closed the Irish girl that Hustler and I were chatting to as we were going in (chaching! - probably the Irish girl you said was drunk Covert! She was a bit tipsy thinking about it!), but the most interesting ones where the 'objections'

1) The girl I told to look after coats - she objected to not being the 'coat looker-after-er' so I sidestepped to say 'No problem - but if you see anyone touch it while you're standing her then let me know...' then continue with usually schpill.

2) The girl that ignored me on first attempt (you know... it happens all the time.. you speak and they act like they don't hear you) - My response was 'Oh my god... I can't believe you're ignoring me after last week?' That got her attention... She looked at me as trying to work out who I was... I made up some bullshit that I was speaking to her after last week...

Girl: 'Where did I meet you?'
Me: 'Here... blah blah blah'
Girl: 'No, that wasn't me...'
Me: 'Oh right... do you have a sister?'
Girl: 'Yeah... but she underage...'
Me: 'errrrrhhhhhh....'
Girl: '... ooookay! See ya!'

The main thing for me was I had her attention rather than being completely ignored... need to work out how to play that one better. Whoops!

Dude! Quality night! Lets do it again next month! Wooooh!

(sorry for highjacking the post!)

Had a similar experience, although it turned out that she had a twin sister :eyebrows:.
I'm not sure if Adam was too pissed to remember, but we had the most fucking awesome idea in the world - a PUAForum bus. With the mandatory "danger, do not talk to these men" decals.
http://www.limolinkexchange.com/tamp...-party-bus.gif

Although, coming to think of it - the bus would look more like this.
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6513/londonbus.jpg
I'm so glad I spent 4 years (honest) of my life learning to use photoshop.

Why thank you Dave! Yours is lovely too xx

Did I seem drunk?! I was drinking water on Saturday night!!! But yes I do remember co-suggesting this. I think it would be perhaps the best idea in the world ever. You get the bus, the driver, the paint, the brushes, the ladder and the artist, I'll get some tea bags!

No problem mate, hijack away! :D

And deffers lets do it again next month - the Monthly Manc Mash-up! Although you're free to stay at mine next time instead of shelling out for a hotel. I've got a sofa and a sleeping bag with Monkeybuster written all over it.

I already have a plan formulating involving this very thing… See, I currently live in a student house with 4 other students. However, after this week, they are mostly going to be going home for the Easter break. Meaning I have a house with 4 empty beds and a few sofas.

I might just host a “Puaforum.co.uk Goes To Liverpool” evening sometime very soon…

In fact, on behalf of all the frustrated AFC'd girls of Liverpool, I feel it is my duty to scousewomankind to bring you lot over to meet them all!

Watch this space.

Dibs on a room!!

Was awesome to meet you and the other peeps I hadn't met before, loving your potatoshop skills, 4 years well spent

I'm on this next time. Hammered it too hard with Hustler the Fri night down Rockworld... altho he managed to power through both nights! Good to meet Monkeybuster for a quick pint earlier that evening tho.

Yeah mate! Cheers for looking after me! Was great to meet you too! Hopefully we'll rip Manchester up together soon!

Had a few hours in the field tonight with Relentless, who has assured me he will post a field report tomorrow. We only did about 2 hours or so - I had a band practice until 10pm, and up early tomorrow for work so didn't want to burn myself out on a Tuesday night. But it was well worth it, and it actually felt great to get out and back in the field after the total nonsense of the last few days.

Highlight of the night for me was completely abandoning my opinion openers! (FANFARE!!!) I didn't open a single set tonight asking a girl or group of girls for an opinion on something. Fanbloodytastic, it felt absolutely great to be having genuine two way conversations with girls from the beginning.

The first was in an empty Heebie Jeebies - asking a passing two set for ideas on where to go on a slow Tuesday night, which led into a brief conversation about student bars.

The second was in the Flute. There was a large group of younger looking people in there dressed up - tuxedos, ball gowns, that sorta thing. I asked a two set near the door what was going on. She said that they were all 6th formers and it was their speech night (what in God's name is a speech night???).

We rolled into a brief conversation, and then I ejected. But this pissed me off. Why the fuck did I eject? I had opened, and she seemed to open up to me. Of course she did - she was possibly no more than 17, and this was a massive part of her 'being a grown up' fantasy, going to a bar and getting hit on (in 5 years time, she'll routinely flick guys away who do this to her). So why the hell did I come out so easily??? I need to stay in my sets. This remains an issue, from several weeks ago.

The final set was in Hannah's bar, which had filled up by the time we walked back past. We headed in, and I spotted a four set away to my left. I went in, once again with a non canned opener... Although again I was only asking why some other guys over the other side of the bar were wearing tuxedos. We got to talking. Relentless came in and winged away one of the girls while I isolated with another - HB8, dark hair. Good skin (skin is important to me. I don't appreciate girls covered in make up.)

And this time, I stayed in set. She did make it easy to do - it was actually her birthday. And this is the bit of the night I am most proud of: a 100% conscious application of the improv concept of 'Yes, and...'.

It went like this:

CO: So whats the occasion - you're all very smart tonight.

HB: Its my birthday.

CO: No way! Happy birthday! <Hugs> So go on, mandatory question, how old are you.

HB: <Grins coyly>

CO: Hah, I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't ask a girl that.

HB: Guess.

CO: I'm not sure, you'll get well offended if I get it wrong.

HB: I won't, go on.

CO: Ok... You're obviously 18 today <She obviously wasn't - this was designed as a David DeAngelo 'Don't answer anything straight>.

HB: Haha, as if! Is that important to you then, to only talk to 18 year old girls?

CO: Yeah, totally. Its a good job you're not 19 today, or I'd probably just bugger off!

She laughed at this, and we rolled off into conversation about all sorts.

I say this was 100% conscious, and I mean it. Right before I said it, I became conscious that I should agree with her. And right after I said it, upon realising I'd said it, I felt like doing somersaults! I am learning. Slooooooowly. But I am learning.

The set bombed 5 minutes later when she said she had a boyfriend. I tried to maintain state, but I can't say I wasn't a little disappointed at this. I'd gone kino with her, and she had reciprocated. Short of an extraction, I wasn't going to get a kiss close anyway due to a few dynamics - a low key bar, bright lights, her 2 friends standing there idly chatting (although, as I say, asking her friends "if I could just borrow her for 5 minutes as long as I bring her back in one piece" would have been fine to take her off to some sofas and work on a kiss close). But, given we had a fun conversation and that she was responding to Kino, I was hopeful of a phone number. Perhaps I should still have gone for it despite her boyfriend (no, I don't want to discuss the ethics of attraction right now!)

I didn't bother looking for IOIs at any point. She was still talking to me, so as far as I was concerned, she was interested. She probably was. Ah well - it'll happen again soon enough. We can but plough on.

Positives

1. I didn't use a single canned opener tonight! Possibly for the first time ever in my pick up career, I have had a night out that didn't involve a single conversation about custard! I consider this to be a major step in the right direction, and if I can integrate that into my long term game, I will be a much more effective operator for it.

2. A conscious application of the 'Yeah, and...' principle.

3. Little trace of AA, even in high value sets (the HB8 girl was overdressed for Hannah's Bar)

Negatives

1. I am still ejecting too quickly from a majority of my sets. Say what you want - 'Make the ho say no', plough, whatever else. I need to stay in set longer, more often.

2. Tonight, whilst I did consciously apply 'Yes, and...', I didn't apply Juggler's 'statements plus questions' principle, and once or twice asked closed ended questions which could have stifled conversation. I was pleased that I did this at the weekend, less so that it still needs to be consciously applied. But hey, I'm learning in wee bitesize chunks.


So, I have some stuff to work on, and more stuff to be fairly pleased with! :)

Onward, brothers...

Apologies. Edited accordingly, thanks K - I've read and re-read Juggler so much over the last few days I think I'm just attributing him with everything! "This is the Juggler concept of eating a banana for breakfast... This is the Juggler concept of parking my car badly..."

Looking back to last night, as an extra point, there is one more thing I didn't do that I should have done. Twice, I caught girls making eyes with me. And I looked back and held their gaze. That's good - in the past I'd have done anything to avoid looking back.

But did I take my que and go and speak to either of them? Of course I bloody didn't! I just stood there. All I had to do was go and introduce myself. But I didn't.

This is something I need to get handled, really. These should be the open goals of pick up. The hard work is done. The girl's RAS is already zoned in on you (copyright Tyler). She has already given an IOI. She has practically held up a massive sign with great big neon yellow letters that say "COME AND TALK TO ME".

All you need to do is slot the ball lazily between the posts, and go and talk to her. You don't even need to worry about the shot being good or having good approaching technique. The hard work has been done for you.

Hmmmmm...

So on this reading, Tyler misrepresents the RAS. If my memory serves me correctly (admittedly not always a completely reliable guide), he refers to it in terms of something which governs your awareness and the locus of your attention.

The example he uses is if you're sat talking to someone, and someone walks past with a plate of tasty burgers, your RAS zones out from the person you're talking too, and into the plate of tasty burgers. It will be triggered by the sensory aspects of the burgers - the smell and the sight of them - and as such your attention to your friend is diluted.

I took this to mean that, last night, this girl was talking to her friend, but when she caught my eye and held it, her 'RAS' latched onto me in the same way my 'RAS' would latch onto a plate of tasty burgers.

The Wiki article, however, seems to suggest that the RAS is much more to do with establishing sleeping or waking conditions within the brain, and is only loosely connected to attention - namely, to govern a switch between lesser alert and more alert states of consciousness.

So, then, RAS is to do not with the locus of your awareness, but rather the intensity of your awareness?

This is complex stuff for an amateur psychologist to grasp! :vroam: