K, thanks for taking the time to reply and I hope you don't mind my rather tardy response however you gave me a lot to ponder regarding my views but mainly the way that I uphold my standards and values both in my personal activities and my interactions with others
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Originally Posted by kowalski
Yes, but I won't draw a phony line of difference between the two (as exists in the language of the law), he is a murderer. I should have been clear about my definition of the word murderer.
Do you think my comments went further than the OP's being at least complicit in manslaughter? If not (which I expect is your answer), why attack me for going to far and not the OP, even though you think he went further?
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For me personally I think there is a big difference between manslaughter and murder and although I am not legal-lingually acquainted with the 2, I think the layman difference of essentially having and not having intent is very important because I think that as decent humans the distinction of wanting to cause harm and accidentally causing harm should be acknowledged especially where punishment or retribution is involved.
That said the point in case for the OP, which I feel supports your PoV for ignoring the difference in this case, is ignorance. Can failing to learn the facts for oneself permit diminished responsibility?
Honestly K, it is something I have thought about it and I find your argument incredibly persuading that it should be classed as murder but I also find it hard to uphold such a view in the face of such grandiose and dispicable misinformation portrayed by the media and governments that combative military service is noble and brave.
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Originally Posted by kowalski
Cool. What action are you taking to stop war? If nothing, then calling this guy a cunt on the internet is more than nothing and at least brought out this discussion.
Me calling him a cunt is part of the campaign. If we all did it, he would not be in the army... no one would. That is how it improves the situation. It also fires lively debate like this, which maybe results in some affect on others (after all, who is really fighting for the hearts and minds of the commited, invested believers? This isn't about this cunt, it is more about you lot... middlegrounders). If you want to make a difference, join the campaign.
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For me I vote(d) for the Green Party. Yes the election system is flawed and not effective. If everybody stopped voting because the system is terrible and staged a polling protest/strike to reform the system entirely I think we could acheive that, but until such a time as that is a legitimate possibility and not a minority action I will do what I can, even if that is a silly little vote, as you said, calling him a cunt is better than nothing.
This discussion has also been very benificial for me in questioning what am I doing to further my values/views and improve the world. Honestly not a great deal. Small parts here and there in choosing where I spend my money, signing petitions and sometimes yet rarely going to appropriate events (I liked/endorsed the Independence vote for Scotland as it involved nuclear disarmamant of Scotland). It will take more than a little meditation and forum debate to come to an answer because I wonder even if I committed myself full-time to trying to improve that which I believe, aligning myself with organizations etc., will it make a difference or just appease my conscience. Is the second enough knowing that I tried my best even if the effect is minimal?
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Originally Posted by kowalski
Yes. Yes, I do. My brother is an ex-army cunt, killer and he says shit like "I'd rather 1,000 Palestinian kids die than one British kid". Last time we exchanged words I made sure he knew that he was a cunt (as I have done before)... he has his own kids, the cunt. They are Brazillian, he is not just a cunt but also, clearly, a fucking retard.
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I wouldn't expect anything less of you K, that said how do you react in social situations where you don't have a personal relationship with that person but you are with another person, say you meet the friend of Mrs K or a close friend?
I like the idea of being upfront and honest, but at the same time I would not like to cause unwanted consequences for those around me.
When I represent only myself I am trying to be more honest and if a person is a cunt, I will happily tell them and why (although I tend not to use the word cunt). Voting with my feet when I am with somebody seems like the better option, if I do not agree with my wife's friend and it is not a matter that could be discussed, it is easy to walk away.
I wish I could think of a better word than represent as I know that you do not represent Mrs K or anybody else but my vocubulary failed me to think of a word where your actions would have negative ramifications in the life of somebody close to you because socially you are linked. (I hope you realise what I mean and will excuse my lack of ability to express myself clearly)
I will reply more later but it was important to me that I at least start...