Comparing British females with US Females
 

Gentlemen,

I recently responded to a post from an American rAFC/jPUA in the UK in another forum, speaking of some frustrations that he has encountered with British HBs, whilst sarging in London. I felt is necessary to write a post on this issue for several reasons:

*I have studied sociology and psychology. Whilst I'm certainly not a guru PUA (far from it), I feel that this is an area I am well trained in.

*I am British and my ex-girlfriend, and several successful Fcloses were American (both in the US and outside).

*I have travelled extensively and lived and/or worked in 8 countries.

* Whilst the science behind PU remains the same in practically all cultures, it is well to note that the majority of pick up material originates in the US, and therefore has a US cultural bias. Again, I echo that this does not alter the aim of the game, but naturally it does mean that some of the rules are different, like the differences between American pool and it's UK counterpart.

Anyway, the following may prove useful for some:

*COMFORT ZONE:

This is relevant even in male to male interactions. British males do not touch each other physically as much as American or continental European males. Upon greeting each other, American guys will slap hands and sometimes briefly hug, French and Italian males exchange kisses (which admittedly takes some getting used to), Spanish males hug and squeeze each other for several seconds and then put their arms around each other. British males usually just nod and say "alright".... even during the social interaction itself, Americans will smack each other on the back, put their heads in close to each other (NOTE: NEVER lean in when talking to an HB, whatever nationality you are), Italian and Spanish males hug quite often. On the other hand, British males expect and give plenty of personal space to other males. They are more reserved with their emotions and usually only display affection if they have not seen the other for an extended period of time. This must be considered when the target is a British female. So, the first difference would be to give them a bit more space, particularly in the approach and open... and whilst a PUA must NEVER delay going "kino" for longer than is necessary, I would suggest that this aspect of the pick up must be executed with a little more care. So, take you time, but (pardon me please) don't be a pussy.

*FAMILIARITY WITH STRANGERS:

I was sat on a plane between Auckland, New Zealand and Los Angeles, CA USA about 5 years ago. I was sat by the window, and to my right was an Australian male, a US male and British (Welsh) male. The second the plane left the ground, the American male offered his hand to all of us, introducing himself by his first name and surname. The Australian commented satirically that "I suppose we're all stuck together, I'm Dave" and politely offered his hand to all of us also (I doubt he'd have done that had it not been for George doing the same)... I decided to pretend to listen to music and study them. The British male was, predictably quite reserved and some might say, with good reason. He does not know these people, he probably will not meet them again on completion of the journey. He was polite and responded to the bombardment of questions from the American male and Australian male, but did not ask any.

Anyway, this likewise must be considered. Americans are open and charming. The British frankly, are not. This also means that British females are less used to being opened by complete strangers, except by males who obviously want to sleep with them. IN the US, an HB may be opened quite innocently by an elderly gentleman in the supermarket who wants an opinion on a gift for his grandaughter. In the UK, this is indeed a rare thing. They don't feel comfortable talking to people where no previous rapport has been established.

For this reason, British HBs (especially 8s 9s and 10s) are usually ONLY opened by AFC males who OBVIOUSLY want to sleep with them. Therefore I would speculate that in many circumstances their bitch shield is significantly more difficult to crack and they are potentially ruder, more conceited and more aggressive.

However, I must also add that once you're past A3 (quote mystery method), they are usually less work than many other nationalities and LMR is in my experience somewhat less in the UK than one should anticipate in the US. In the States it pretty much comes as standard. The general opinion in NEGS is much disputed in the community at the moment (many are turning away from the idea), but Mystery suggests negging HB9s and HB10s on cold approaches (don't forget a false time constraint and false disqualification also). I would dare speculate that it could be useful to NEG 8s and perhaps even on some occasions 7s in the UK. When I was living in Bournemouth I found that even "better than average" looking girls could be quite snotty on the apporach (although this was pre PU discovery and frankly, I didn't have a fucking clue what I was doing).

I'm currently living and working in Italy and I sometimes work in Spain. The cultural aspect of pick up is one of the most fascinating parts to me, and I'm learning a lot about Spanish girls at the moment. I'm currently dating a Ukrainian HB8 and a russian HB9 ironically enough, but when I find the time I'll make a post on other European HB nationalities and some of the small adjustments that one may need to make. HOWEVER, MORE IMPORTANTLY THAN ANYTHING ELSE, REMEMBER THAT THE METHOD REMAINS THE SAME IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. Cultural sensitivity is not an excuse for deviating away from the method.

I would welcome any feedback. If you feel I've missed anything, or simply want to comment, I'd love to hear from you.

TRAPTinRome

Being someone who's spent time in both countries, amongst "pickup" folk I'll weigh in here.

I disagree entirely. The culture differences are stereotypical and irrelevant, in fact everything you have said that is not in the nature of British men is in the nature of many British men. The funny thing is that I've seen almost this same discussion occur in numerous formats, proposed in opposing views, from both British and Americans about the opposite cultures.

That's a bit messy so I'll put it in perspective, Americans think American women are more difficult to approach than British women and take much more care because they'll snap at you or be bitchy. They believe that British people are friendlier in nature and I've seen people shocked at a guy talking to them, on the train! Shocker!.. Happens all the time. As does conversation between customers in shops, regularly.

Then British people say the same thing, but the other way around...

I'm sure there's a social or psychological phenomenon to explain this. but I'm not aware of it, perhaps someone might point me in the direction of some interesting reading though.

As for what you've said about comfort zone and taking it slightly slower... You haven't spent much time here have you? The general philosophy of the more active in this community is that if you haven't made you intentions ridiculously obvious within the first 3 minutes you're doing it wrong. I generally agree with them, at least when it comes to cold approach... That bird you're into that you've known for 2 years and work with. Suddenly coming out with having feelings or wanting to sex her up isn't going to cut it and is usually going to be a little creepy though and a gentler angle is usually preferable.

American girls will drop to the their knees and suck your cock if you put on a Hugh Grant accent, british girls won't.

Jay I think you are bob-on the money - you could quite easily put it down to being attracted to the Exotic, something that isn't the norm.

Trying to pick-up HBs we are obviously trying to stand-out from being social sheep in a positive way by offering fun and excitement.

If you are foreign, you are already different and exciting - you probably know another language, have your own racial look about you - there are tons of studies, particularly in China regarding why average foreign people are more attractive than avergae domestic people, and you can talk about your own culture which even between US and UK has some big differences.

I find it easier to pick-up foreign girls, as Knave said I've got a typical British accent, I'm average looking a toned and can hold good a conversation.

I just like fucking somthing different

I had a couch surfer from germany stay at mine for a few days-- i enjoyed talking mainly german to her and learning about a different culture
(didnt nail her btw not my type)

was it the hairy armpits or moustache that stopped you?

Great post, I totally agree

I am so interested in cultural differences in personality and its good to see your post giving out some great ideas

Why do you agree? Why do you disagree with everyone else? Reasoning?

There is a thanks button for posts like this, if you disagree then start a debate and explore whether you're correct or influence others towards a new belief. Dont just blindly disagree with consensus with a useless post. You have the opportunity to learn why you're wrong or teach others why they are by actually participating.

she did have hairy armpits! fucking wrong!
the other one was on the first night i said ' use my shower if you want' she didnt sue it, she had not washed in about 2 days...

you should delouse them like in prison.

Thank you all for your feedback, both positive and negative.

I think the comments from knave and daleinthedark are worth noting also. Although this post was inspired, ironically enough by an American in London; I do agree that people are often curious and often attracted to what is different (or perhaps rare). I often hear stories from my male students here in Italy about their luck with the ladies in the United Kingdom, and subsequently I do enjoy a similar predicament here also. I have blond hair and blue eyes (and I tan fairly well usually), which is a rarity in Southern Italy and I must admit I very much enjoy the attention of the brown eyed beauties I encounter, both in and out of work. :D

I am purely speculating here, but perhaps it is also for this reason that my American buddy over on the other forum isn't doing as well as he had hoped in London, because an American accent is not such a rarity in major cities as it is in the smaller cities of the UK. If he were to go sarging in, say Bristol or Brighton for example, I'd be willing to bet money he'd have a girl on each arm after a few nights out.

To further validate my point, I had another thought today. I have another non PUA friend (British) who spent some time in Florida and he said that he was smothered by girls in the Northern part of Florida, but he was suprised at how unreceptive the girls were in Orlando were. This may sound strange, but if one considers that a large number of British tourists and second home owners are in the "Disneyland" area of Florida at any given moment, the local girls have probably become desensitised to the British accent, therefore meaning that it is no longer "exotic". In the other cities of Florida, such as Jacksonville and Tallahassee, a Britsh male is undoubtedly, still quite a catch, which brings me to my next point (RLAjay I hope you're listening):

When an American male is speaking to British female, the American accent functions as a DHV of sorts (rarity/ exclusivity) and the contrary is also true (in the female's home country).

So when RLAjay (correctly) pointed out that American and British males often have similar views of both each other and of the females of the contrary nationality; this assumption is based on the very fact that we are curious about each other. I must say I agree entirely up to that point. I am also not sure if there is a psychological phenomenon based exclusively on this, however should I find anything relevant to that debate, I will gladly point you in the right direction.

However, if one compares an American female interacting with a US male, with a British female interacting with a UK male; we have a totally different situation which is were I feel RLAjay missed the point. A UK male/US female scenario is COMPLETELY ANOTHER THING (and not a fair test). In my post, I was referring to a UK female interacting with a UK male. Again, I repeat:

If you are in a supermarket in the US, you will find that it is commonplace that people will ask for your opinion on what to buy (and remember at this point they DO NOT KNOW you are British, the "Oh....cool accent dude" part comes later).

How many times does this happen in, Sainsbury's for example? Not very often. (I'm talking about customer-customer interactions here, not referring to employees who are paid to open sets for various reasons). Americans are quite at ease talking with complete strangers, whereas in the UK this is less common (not non-existant, but much less common).

Futhermore, my thoughts on British males interacting with each other is, in my opinion extremely relevant. British males hardly every touch each other, whereas in the United States a customary high five is utilised on both arriving and departing from a social situation.

As for personal space, this is in fact something I studied in psychology. Again, it has been a while, but I will endeavour to find some material on the internet should you require further reading (for anyone).

The British, due to the fact that they are less touchy-feely, do require more personal space and invading that personal space prior to comfort being established can ruin an otherwise well orchestrated set. Naturally this is true in all cultures, but the British on average require a little more personal space (I have to be honest and say I don't how remember exactly, but I think it's around 10square centimetres more compared with Americans. This was researched in urban areas, obviously country-folk in both countries would certainly require even more still). Naturally I would suggest if you are American to bear this in mind. For a British male, who requires a similar amount of space himself, this would most likely be instinctive. Even so however, it's good to know, don't you think?

Finally, with regards RLAjays comments about comfort zone and "not being around here very long", which I feel was more malicious than objective:

For reference I have been aware of the community since the summer of 2009 and I finished reading The Game and the Mystery Method in about november of the same year. I've also read numerous posts from Tyler DurdeN, Mystery, Style, RossJeffries and even extremists like Gunwitch, along with Double your Dating (DeAngelo) since that time. I am not so well infomred on La Ruina and I am fully aware that he is often the favourite among UK based PUAs, I may get his book next time I'm in the UK. I know he is anti-canned material and one PUA metaphorically referred to his style as like jeet-kun-do in relation to Kung Fu I have been actively sarging for well over a year, in three countries and three languages. I'm not an expert yet and I certainly do not always "get the girl", but I am trying to learn something from every interaction and I feel I am making progress. I am fully aware that you should make your intentions known by the time you're into A3 (mystery method) and this should take about 5ish minutes (RLAjay said three, I find I usually take 5-6 but I am still working on my game). I believe RLAjay absolutely misinterpreted that in every possible way (perhaps deliberately?)

All I wanted to say was, you can get away with kino a little faster with US females, because they are more used to being patted on the back or playfully punched on the arm. I'm not referring to drunken UGs sticking theire arse in your face on the dance floor, that is completely another thing. Alcohol is another variable that disqualifies a fair test. A sober British HB must be approached confidently also, but I believe that going kino must be done with care.

I also don't understand why it is necessary to respond in such an arrogant and rude way to people who are relatively new to PU forums like gibsy92... or perhaps even myself (I am new to this forum but I've been registered on other well known forums for over a year)... We have common objective, do we not?

Or we could stop over analysing this and giving our selves limiting beliefs that we can't pull unless we go abroad :lol:

Yes there are massive cultural differences and end of the day it comes down to the same thing, its how you stand out from the crowd and shine as a unique guy.

we are all guilty of stereotyping :) but tony, for the most part I agree with you. Just out of interest do you have a favourite nationality re the girls? (that question is open to anyone)?

Spanish or Italian! Usually bi-lingual, mediterranean skinned lovelies and I used to have a lot more luck that with English girls, now I see them more as a treat ;)

we all just like fucking somthing different, hell if it came from a different planet id be interested in it.

...regardless of which country it comes from or social level.

I will say this, very often the US openers / game takes on a slightly nerdy/cheesy format like palm reading. This is just ultra gay to use in the UK.

Damn I can't help myself when I hear a girl with an accent :hihi:

It was Tom who said, if a girl's a HB7 in looks, it automatically goes up to a HB8 if she's got an accent.

in fact the whole comfort thing needs to be done a little differently in the UK.
Plenty of people say the cube works but if you start coming out with stuff like that or the ring routine or whatever, most girls will just laugh at you in the UK. You can build comfort by playing games instead.

Very true. Furthermore, the US females are much less familiar with ironic and/ or dry humour. They are much more familiar with the token US slapstick style of humour.

You may have heard a few US females say "I thought British guys were cute but actually a lot of them are sarcastic pricks". This is why.

the two guys who turned me onto the pickup scene (aka told me to the The Game, lol) were based in different cultures. One was american, but lived in the UK for 6+ years, and the other was french. It was actually quite funny to hear them banter back and forth about which cultures were the easiest or difficult. The british/american kept flipping back and forth, saying there were pros and cons to his two that he frequented, while the french guy swore up and down that french girls do the approaching, and it was impossible for him to get french girls... but he could get british girls and american girls if he actually tried. Me, I was a big fucking chump then, so I didn't have much to add.

I think it is based in the novelty of a foreigner and foreign culture... hence why I'm trying to learn a bit of different stuff from you UK guys instead of being like every other american PUA ;)

@lucidfer

Very true, having an attractive accent or coming from a "fashionable" culture is always a DHV, although it's value is higher for some women than others. It certainly does not guarantee a lay.

However, some nationalities/ cultures/ ethinicities are actually a DLV, as are some accents (whether the Politically correct watchdog likes it or not). A guy who speaks English with a Chinese or Indian accent would amost certainly struggle to pull an HB in either the UK or US. However, having a UK accent in the US or vice versa (perhaps to a slightly lesser extent in the latter case) can certainly work in one's favour.

Back when I was living in the UK, I could enver understand the fascination with "Italian guys". I always (this was pre-PUA discovery AFC times) imagined that all the guys there must be incredibly attractive and romantic and all the rest of it. I've lived in Italy for four years now. Are they all amazingly attractive? NO! Although there are some very attractive men here, there is not a higher percentage of good looking men here at all. N fact I would also say that there probably is a higher percentage of Ugly men here than the UK. Are they Romantic? Yes... and guess what? the girls hate it! why? because it's AFC, it's lame and it's weak. It seems the cultural norm to invite a girl to dinner for a first date here. Having a strong frame here, not seeking approval and all of the fundamental thinking of pickup will take you further here than in the anglo-saxon countries. So why do girls from northern europe and USA find Italian males attractive? it's fashionable and cosmopolitan magazine says it's the thing to be. They have the preselection DHV gift wrapped and offered on a golden tray. But look again... I repeat, the guys here are no more attractive than any other countries physically, but their DHV spike means that the girls looks at him through DHV speckled glasses even before speaking to him. Then consider a handsome Turkish man, who is ethnically similar to an Italian. He might well be better looking than the Italian, but Turkish males are stererotyped as being backwardly muslim, lame lovers and sexist. Is it true? in modern Turkey? I don't fucking think so usually. :)

fuck it I'm going to start a new post on this subject

I happen to look really pan-racial. Girls assume I'm all sorts of different things: Italian, Spain, Turkey, Greek. Most of the time any time a ( white english/US) girl says that she thinks I'm ethnically from any of the above places it tends to be a major DHV/IOI.

For many women looking like you are from those 'fashionable' countries is a major feather in your cap in my experience. But it can be a negative too. It's something to do with White/Brit women's presumptions about a more confident direct and sexually assertive form of masculity that many of them assocaiate with those particular cultures. The stereotype is that med men are not afraid of being masculine or of being more direct or honest about our intentions towards women. The idea that they aren't constantly apologising for their existance the way many nice white (UK/US) men raised by hippy liberal mothers and on a lot of BS fed to them by the PC media tend to carry on..

Most (UK/US) Girls are smart enough to know that the 'nice' castrated english guy who keeps apologising for stepping on her toes (when he hasn't) and keeps buying expensive drinks for her, wants to stick his dick in her JUST as much as the cock sure olive skinned Matador who's been throwing her around the dancefloor and is now trying to get HER to buy HIM a drink...but the second option is just much more thrilling and seductive to most white/UK/US women than the other.

Sometimes some English girls do regard the assertive and direct masculity that they associate with Italian/med cultures negatively too btw. But in my experience such girls tend to be clingy prudish Little Englander types, that are waiting to get fertilized by some 'suitable' Ben Foggel type prat (and usually aren't really worth the effort required to overcome the prejudices/hang ups they might have about men that look/act a little more 'hot blooded'/forward.:pound:

The only time I've ever been told by a girl that I look Italian (and it's been a DLV), it was from a girl that was an Italian herself and we had a pretty long chin wag about Berlusconi and her loathing of him and of Italian Machismo culture in general and her preferance for nerdy british blokes...:pound:

Perceptions about race/ethnicity/culture do matter and do make a difference. I've experienced it first hand and it's cut both ways. Socially I do feel that understanding 'types' that your look might afford you the opportunity to project/tap into can improve your success rate considerably.

Nice post!

I think that (despite my last post), that is probably part of the reason I get a lot of girls here in the med. I am blond boy with a more mediterranean personality, which means that Spanish girls are usually all over me, and to slightly lesser extent italian also.

Interesting point of view, keep it up

Another thought, that Italian HB was probably just disqualifying you. She would probably tell a UK guy she prefers the guys back home. It's a shit test bro. Women will always do that to fuck with you. You should've disqualified her first ;)

Sounds like a blast. The Spanish are fun...:trampoline:

You know I thought that at first...especially as she didn't blow me out totally or anything. It was more like a 'yeh you look so Italian...I don't like Italian guys.' but the more we chatted after the more I realised she wasn't kidding and REALLY REALLY hated Italian men...I guess the grass is always greener right?

Back to British vs American girls...

One thing I'm gonna put out there is this:

Hotter American girls are more self aware socially intelligent and switched on to subtext suggestion/seduction than less hot american girls (atleast in my experience).

I think it's because generally (most) American men are really OBVIOUS...it's as true of their comedy/films/tv as it is of their culture and society in general IMO.

If I'm hitting on an average Brit girl and I'm taking the piss she's MORE likely get that it's playful and READ BETWEEN THE LINES and respond to being challenged and teased than an average american girl...that might take all my banter at face value.

Meanwhile because americans tend to be so damn Spartan in their social outlooks in general...stunning American chicks (those at the higher end of the social pole) seem to have more of a social overview even than their brit counterparts (again imo). They will be more likely to 'get it' and hit the ball back if you try and play...because as Brits our cheek, wit,cynism and generally 'not giving as much of a fuckness' are all qualites that many american women (especially hotter ones) wish more men in their own culture had...imo/experience atleast. More attractive American girls are GAGGING for a bloke that can actually CHALLENGE them and play ball and give them some hoops to jump through, and that's because American men (in general) can't/don't. 99% of the American men she's met/known have let their jaws hit the floor at the sight of her and the 8 that didn't will be the only 8 she's fucked...

I personally adore Spanish girls and women. I know a lot of men who don't however, so it's all a question of preference. My buddy is obsessed with Asian women. I'm not that fussed to be honest

Agree entirely mate,

I think it's easier for a UK pua to bed a US HB than a UK HB, and I don't think it's got fuck all to do with the accent, that part is like good lucks, it gets your foot in the door, but it doesn't hold it open for long.

and not even good looks/ accent carry much weight with a 10

thats a pretty strange thing to expect from 'YOUR' perfect girl

Yeh. I've never believed in the number rating scale thing either. It's all a bit too Hitler/Spartan socially deterministic for my liking. I think it imposes the idea of a genetic hierarchy that's really only there IF you want it to be.

Being 'hot' or 'hotter' is as much a LIFESTYLE CHOICE for a girl as it is for a man.

...all that matters is
A) How much do I want something/one?
B) How will I go about getting it/them?

The attraction value you might place on someone isn't the attraction value they place on themselves relative to you.