I stumbled upon NLP via watching "getting up to speed with speed seduction" videos by Ross Jeffries(RJ) on YouTube. The concepts made perfect sense to me and fitted in with my current knowledgescape, i was very familiar with pyschology and with the major concepts of carl rogers' client centred therapy having studied both. NLP and speed seduction(SS) appealed to me scienctifically and philosophically, the idea that words like "love", "lust" and "desire" were just shorthand for all the physicological process experienced during those emontional states(ES). That plus the concept that when someone recalls a memory strongly associated with one of those ES they physically relive the ES blew my mind, i thought i had the ultimate skelleton Key.

At this point I was at a real low point in my life and I had a major oneitis, so I thought fuck it and tried taking my first tentative steps. Tried a basic connection pattern with lots of self pointing(sp) and few other patterns that were freely available from the SS website. We spend hours and hours just talking, and with my rudimentary knowledge I could see a lot of visible signs(IOIs)!! she even suggest that we should get "drunk together" however, my limiting beliefs and AFCness fucked me.

Even with the limited knowledge i had i could see massive potential. So, i started reading and reading, i found that the more you read the more fascinating this became. it's like planting the seed of intrigue deep with in you. The that seed becomes a feeling and it starts to grow and grow, and the more it grows the more this fanscinates you and the more you want to know as a result. i read everything i could, every free PDF and post on any forum (props to Hypnotica, Nebula, MrMemphis and OG, plus many others). My eyes began to open, i realiesed that NLP didnt just potential hold the key to other people but my self included.

i bought several books majority from the Top 5 NLP books post and a few i was recommended by a second cousin who happend to be a hypnothearpist and NLP master practitioner. I am completely engrossed in the subject now, and not only am i applying it to my game but my day to day life. NLP is not just applicable to the art of suggestion and seduction but it has gave me the ability to strike up rapport with people fast. I find that the more you learn the more and more you want to learn and that feeling when you practice becomes stronger and like an addiction the compulsion in you to practice grows stronger and stronger. Everyday i practice on my colleagues unbeknown to them, its like a new toy that i cant put down.

Then one day i read a post by Team DHC (stylelifeforum) and i thought fuck it i will ask MrMemphis to zap me too lol. It was amazing and what was more amazing was that when i was writting up the experience i could feel my self reliving it completely. This was the second hook point which led me to start investigating hypnosis. Interesting fact All hypnosis is actually self-induced. When you sit in front of your favourite TV programme or become engrossed in a good book you are experiencing a hypnotic trance-like state.

So, again the impulse in me to practice hit and everynight put my self in a trance (let my mind Alpha wave) and PLAY lol. i began by reliving the experience of being hypnotized by Mrmemphis, then i've tried a breathing excercise as slow relaxtion induction, with every exhale i feel my self relaxing more and more ect. ect. then i begin to bring forth images of proud and happy moments and play with the submodalites and i can intensify these ES (much like the free Audio excercise from the Rules of the Game) and anchor them. Now, when i feel pissed off i can break state and then trigger these ES by reaching for my anchor(bracelets and rubber bands i wear round my wrist) and i can feel the desire ES coming. I have never felt so great!!!

when i speak to people i gain wealth of information from them by watching their body langauge and quickly figure out there primiary sense for there internal representation(IR), i can find there prefered patterns and reiterate them. today i was talking to one of my undergrad colleagues, telling her all about NLP and hypnosis. i told here that people experience hypnotic state everyday and then i brought her into a trance while speaking to her lol. I found out that her primiary sense was audio from talking to her and watching her eyes when she recalled an event, then i started what i kinda remember MrMemphis did to me haha.


Me: so, have you ever been totally engrossed in something someone was saying to like lecturer or a public speaker?

LabRat: Yeah, i remember when i was at college we had a trip to a university of nottingham and there was this one lecture about communication. There was no slides or power point presentataion, just the guy speaking on stage and it was fascinating (the guy most definetly NLP trained). it was like he was just talking to me directly and there was no one else there. i was completely engrossed(trance word)

Me: like being in a trance?

LabRat: yeah exactly (lolz!!! i thought fuck it, am going to try and do what memphis did)

Me: that's funny, because i find when you really listen to someone you become completely engrossed and the more you listen the more and more you can feel your self focusing more and more on the sound of there voice, and you can only hear the sound of there voice and all the other background noise just fades away. And the more and more they speak the more and more you listen, and you can feel yourself becoming more and more engrossed in what they are saying and your eyes may begin to lose focus and you can feel your eyelides getting heavier and heavier the more you listen. until they start to close at the rate at which you feel comfortable with.....

now at this point i could see visible signs of her entering into trance lol hahaha i can not believe this shit lol and this is in the middle of a lab not a quiet office or dark room lol!!!!!

Me: Wake up!!!

LabRat: OMG wtf happened then hahahahaha

Me: i Think i just hypnotized you, how do you like them apples?

LabRat: that was amazing blah blah

now she is going to let me practice on her winner. These are just my first few tentative steps but i can fast feel my self improving and i cant get over how amzing this is. She has a really weird fear of mannequins i have told her that i probably be able to get rid off it for her soon enough.

UPINSMOKE(went my limiting beliefs)

that's some cool shit.

I'm reading a lot recently on the internet about hypnosis for fast seduction, and other methods beyond hypnosis like "Forbidden Patterns", "Rake Routines" (written by some 'Rake' guy) which revolve mainly around taking the victim (i.e. the woman, your LabRat ) through emotional roller-coasters by mixing good and bad emotions together... One other famous method called "The October Man Sequence"

Like your post.... especially 'AFCness'

NLP is almost entirely garbage I'm afraid.

What's quite amusing is that there are scientific studies out there that completely discredit NLP yet people still continue to believe in it's almighty power.

NLP is akin to scientology. You get programmed into believing it and then go forth and spread it, same business model as cults.

You'd think Bandler (one of the founders) being charged with murder would raise a few eyebrows but the people that believe in this stuff are so entrenched that they'll defend it to the very end.

After ww2 psychologists went to Germany to see why the German people did nothing when the SS came round and started dragging their neighbours away to be killed. What they found was that because the German people had been so heavily programmed that when they were presented with the truth they thought that was a lie. Even if they could prove it to them they would still refuse to believe it. The same phenomenon is found amongst members of cults and people that believe thoroughly debunked conspiracy theories.

NLP practitioners usually turn around and offer something such as their own experience as evidence of it working and science being wrong. What they fail to realise is that the reason it appears to work is due to another well known phenomenon, they project the results they want on their findings because they believe and/or want to see that result. When tested with no bias there has been no evidence to support it(that hasn't since been debunked).

Hmm.. I seem to recall you making a very similar argument against NLP previously Kowalski so I'm not sure why you're responding this way, unless you're playing devil's advocate but I'll go with it...

EDIT: Upon closer inspection I should clarify, I kind of saw that as a little obviously patronising or perhaps even a sarcastic defence of NLP. It could however be read in many ways and I may have taken it entirely wrong. For the sake of uncertainty I'll leave this here though. /EDIT

EDIT2: Gonna judge by the thanks that I completely misread your tone Kowalski. My bad!.. Disregard this above.

I half agree with you, having spent time under a major company I can attest to the industry knowing full well that they're programming people and using it to their advantage, things cleverly branded and built around creating a fantasy world for practitioners to dwell in. Everything is carefully chosen and built around creating a fantasy world that appeals to guys who want to be the best, which hypocrises its own message the instant it suggests you should self validate - they don't want you to self validate, they profit from you seeking validation from men instead of the women you previously feared.

That said, pua is made up of many different theories and principles that are proven and in use in other accepted fields, particularly therapy. There's also very little in the way of scientific study that debunks pua, though you have to look at more individual instructions.

just to add blandler was charged and then found not guilty(http://articles.latimes.com/1988-01-...ichard-bandler), all of these events were nearly 15 years after the initial inception of NLP. Just a note as well personal reputation has no bearing on the legitimacy of any work, for example Richard Feynman experimented with LSD, marijuana and ketamine during his professorship at Caltech(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard...#Personal_life), but this doesnt detracted away from the QED(quantum electron dynamics). That being said I really don't care for bandler and his cultist appeal, and the pseudo science industry that has sprang up. Life coaching and all the rest of that bullshit. And your right a large part of NLP is very much shite lol.

However, a big chunk of the core principles do actually ring true(wait for it). The ability to build rapport, body language and match/mirror. These have a firm stance in established psychology/counseling theory(carl roger's client centered therapy). Once you have rapport(psychological congruence) you can pace, pace, lead and with the hypnotic language patterns and embedded commands the levels of suggestion that is possible are unbelievable

listen i don't want to enter into a big debate, and i find that when you disagree with certain aspects of something it can skew you perspective, that's right? I Also find that when you realise this more, the more you understand that though certain aspects are not valid others are and have a great deal of utility.

UPINSMOKE(went my prejudice)

I disagree K. Not with most of PUA material being bullshit, but with your statement that NLP does not work. If we take NLP to mean hypnosis, and take hypnosis to mean manipulation of a person's thoughts, then NLP most certainly is possible. If you don't believe me, think about advertising and social conditioning. Mild hypnosis on a grand scale - if it didn't work there would be no chodes and no frigid women.

My issue with it is, as it always has been, tricking women into bed. It's no better than using Rohypnol in my book.

just playin D A here

what exactly is different from using clever words to bed women and speaking in a way they like

, than dressing how they like

or using PICK UP techniques

its been proven hypnosis cannot make people do somethin that isnt already in their normal frame of action!

Okay, I'll bite and offer some examples.

Value theory
Buss & Barnes (1986) found that people prefer their romantic partners to be similar in certain demographic characteristics. Political orientation, religion or in the case socio-economic status equal or higher.

Also, according to the post-conversation measures of social attraction, tactical similarity was positively correlated with partner satisfaction and global competence ratings. Waldron & Applegate, 1998

Cold reading routines
Forer effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and
Automaticity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Smiling/eye contact
BBC NEWS | Health | Gaze 'key to facial attraction'

Push/Pull
Judging attraction from non-verbal behaviour: The gain phenomenon
Gerald L. Clorea, Nancy H. Wiggins and Stuart Itkin 2007

Alpha traits/dominance
This is an area that hasn't been touched on much, but couples who reported the highest level of harmony in their relationships were found to be more dissimilar in dominance than couple who reported lower relationship quality.
Markey & Markey 2007.

Pivots and/or preselection
Only 59% of women were likely to be interested in a hypothetically ideal man but when he was presented as in a relationship 90% of the women stated they would be interested in pursuing a romantic relationship with him.
2009 Melissa Burkley and Jessica Parker OSU