after the open
 

I'm struggling as to what to talk about after I open a girl in a bar. I live a little outside London.

I'm just really not sure what sort of things i'm supposed to be saying, and typically, the interactions are very short as I guess i'm boring the girl.

But i'm not sure how to create 'fun' out of thin air, and especially so early into the conversation.

Typically, after I open, i'll ask her who she is with, where she is going taht night. I might make some 'assumptions' about what she does for a job or something based on her look, but usually she'll be wanting to get away the whole time.

I've watched 'infield vids' to see if I can learn, but pretty much all vids are appraoches in America where is is typical to ask the girl where they are from and they talk about that for a while, or they are vids by americans filmed in like Russia, and they talk to the girls about their country and maybe joke aroud with her accent or something.

But I just live in a smallish town in between london and brighton. Everyone I speak too is from here, born and raised, so it would be odd to ask 'where are you from?' as the answer will always obviously be 'here'

What do people say/talk about after opening a girl, and how to make it 'fun' so that she doesn't get bored?

The problem isn't to do with what you're saying, but the attitude you have in relation to it.

The main word I use to describe my game is 'boring'. Because it is. I show up, say some standard as fuck small talk shit, then hang around for a long enough period of time.

Here's what's actually going on in your interactions. The girl isn't trying to get away because you aren't coming with interesting shit to talk about, she's trying to get away because you're uncomfortable. She can feel that, and it in turn makes her feel uncomfortable.

So how do you solve this problem? You can either learn to somehow become witty as fuck until you meet your own overly high standards, or you can simply just lower the fucking bar. You think that, say, Gaz from Geordie Shore is saying some witty Oscar Wilde shit before he takes some girl home and spreads his warts around? Hell no. He's saying the same stupid shit you are. Most people who just want to get laid and aren't selling stuff are.

Here's what you do. Go up to girls and get used to just going 'Alright, how's your night going?' and blah blah blah till you get used to sticking with it. Hang about for longer than feel comfortable. Will it be shit at first? Yeah. But once you get used to it it'll serve you for a lifetime

You're saying to just keep doing what i'm doing because once I start to feel comfortable with this small talk, she will sense that, and will be less likely to walk away?

I guess since I can't think of anything else (other than maybe a 'routine' which i've never tried to use before but has been suggested to me) then that's what i'll do. I am at a few hundred approaches now though and really don't fell 'that 'uncomfortable'

(but seriously, gaz from geordie shore doesn't have to even speak at all, lol. He's a big time celeb in the eyes of the young girls he bangs)

thanks for replying

Right, I was a bit summary in explaining this and I'm not entirely sure you see what I'm getting at, so I'll unpack it a little more.

In a sense, but there's a bit more to it than that. If anything I'm telling you to try less hard. A big reason why you struggle to keep these conversations going or struggle to have fun conversations is because you're 'trying to make it fun for the girl'. I saw this was a point of confusion when you responded to alexander83's FR. He was talking about self amusement - having fun himself regardless of whether other people are and independent of how his conversations go. You were confusing that with the opposite - attempting to amuse other people.

Feeling the need to be fun and entertaining is one of the most stifling things you can do, and it's palpable. Girls in bars get guys talking to them all the time. If you can just go out with a bunch of girls one night and watch the way guys come up to them. What you'll see is a bunch of guys doing exactly the same thing; trying to be entertaining. It has the opposite effect, and just comes across as stilted, insincere and try hard.

Conversely, when you stop 'trying to be fun' it doesn't come across that way. A sincere relaxed bit of small talk is infinitely preferable to some dude coming up to you and trying to entertain you in some attempt to make you like him. You come off as much more high status, because confident, boss ass people don't worry about entertaining others. And the grand irony is you're way more likely to have an actual fun conversation this way, because it's way easier for both you and the girl to relax and free associate. It's just like when you have a fun ass conversation with friends. They start off fairly dull and standard and they develop organically into really fun shit, because everyone's relaxed, no one's under pressure, no one freaks out if there's a lull and no one's tying to force shit.

Routines are the fucking worst man. The bit above about forced ass fun should make it kind of obvious why. It's just one size fits all, square peg in a round hole, forced fun. I mean try it if you like, but I'll say this. I've been doing this shit forever, I've gotten laid a bunch all around the world, none of it using routines. I know a bunch of people who get laid a lot, none of them use them either. I used to go out with girls on nights out all the time, every dude who went up pulling that shit got shot the fuck down. In fact, I'll challenge you to find one person who's pulling with a good degree of consistency who uses routines and isn't just trying to sell you some shit.

The vast vast majority of the time the reaction you'll get is mild amused curiosity with a vague undertone of 'something's a bit off' to the grossed out shut down you might to to someone who cold calls you and is clearly reading a script (because it's basically the same thing). Besides, you basically end up with the same problem of having to learn to sustain a goddamn conversation on your own. Typically from opening to getting laid you're spending at least 2-3 hours with a girl, and I don't care who you are, with that amount of time in the vast amount of different situations that can pop up, you're gonna run out of shit and then you're back to the same problem you started with.

Learning to be calm, self contained and stay in conversations for long periods of time really is the fundamentals of pickup. Using a routine is the equivalent of getting in an MMA cage having practise a cool ass spinning hook kick in your bedroom, but having no understanding of distance, footwork, stance, angles, etc. You might be able to do that one cool thing, but once that hasn't done the job, you're fucked.

That's not as much as you might think in the grad scheme of things. And I'm not saying you're all pissing yourself, palms are sweaty, mom's spaghetti kind of uncomfortable, but honsetly you wouldn't be running out of things to say if you didn't feel a decent bit of low level tension. You wouldn't even be thinking to ask the question 'how do I make it fun/what should I say' if you genuinely felt comfortable with yourself, your attractiveness, and your ability to hold a conversation. Plus you barely ever get girls spontaneously just walking off if you have a comfortable, non needy, relaxed ass vibe about you.

So work on the fundamental shit. Learn to hold a conversation and don't rely on any crutches to try to make a girl amused by you. Develop the self assurance to understand that a boring start or a lull in conversation is natural and fine, and should just be ridden out. The more basic you stay, and the longer you stay in interactions, the quicker the fact that you don't need anything other than yourself will get ingrained in your brain. The rest will follow naturally.

Oh, and:

I was just trying to think of a retard you gets laid a lot that you'd have heard of. Besides, he got on that show because promoters in newcastle knew him as a drunken fanny rat. He did just fine before he was famous and there are a million other idiots just like him who get laid without the need to be witty or clever.

thanks.

To be honest, I kind of struggle either way.

It's true that recently i've been trying hard to concentrate on the 'fun' element of it all.

But that's kind of because, before that, I was clearly guilty of boring them. I posted some field reports on another forum, and that was the main criticism. ''You are boring these girls to death. Be fun!!''

I'm clearly very stuck, and not entirely sure how to move past this!

As you say, learning to hold a conversation is the basics of it, but when I revert back to concentrating on not being 'fun'(which, as yuo say, comes across as try hard and needy) my interactions kind of look like:

me:Hi! I wanted to talk to you. Your awsome jacket caught my eye!
her: thanks
me: Don't see orange leather jackets being worn much!
her: nope!
me: So.............where are you headed tonight?
her: Xbar
me: Oh cool. I was there last night! 80's music. Love it
her: yeah
me: You like 80's music?
her: It's ok
me: Who are you here with?
her: My friends over there
me: How do you know them all?
her: Just work
me: I'm gonna guess you're in fashion for a job?
her: No. Admin.
me: Ahhh...I was way off! How do you like it?
her: it's ok. Listen I gotta go. Bye! *walks off*

Hey.
Sometimes when I try to tease, I feel as though I come across as too 'try hard'. If she gives me nothing to actually tease her about, I have to force it, so maybe it doesn't quite land.

And Stein says that his game is boring. My conversation I posted looks boring too, so maybe that's not the issue

Howver, Can you take my conversation I posted and show me how it *should* look and how you would incorporate teasing and push/pull so early into a conversation?

cheers

This just sounds like its been lifted straight from a PUA manual - routines & pre planned gimmicks - exactly what Stein said not to do.

All of the above things should be important, but they should flow naturally as a result of the conversation. You shouldn't be talking to someone & think "Oh right, I'd better try some qualification now, then after that I'll move into push-pull".

This took me a while to get back to, I'm out in Stockholm right now and I'm kind of busy so I won't be breaking down specifics. The good news is that'd be a waste of time anyway. If you want some clever elaborate shit to spice it up, you can just look up any old PUA shit, but my point is giving you specific shit to say would just mask the real problem, and you'll still eventually run out anyway because getting a girl home takes way too long. Like I said above.

In general I got 2 main things from that example. Not contributing much, and fishing for her to do it for you.

Like Kowalski said, you're really not doing much other than asking questions, and even when you make a positive statement you aren't really expressing what you think in an honest, unfiltered sort of way. Short bland stuff like 'I love 80's music'. I comes across as self conscious in it's inexpressiveness and really doesn't give the girl anything to latch onto. Is that really what you've got to say, entirely and honestly? Like, if you were talking to your best mate and he was like, ah yeah I fancy heading to xbar, is that how you'd be? Or are you just stifling your shit when you talk to girls?

In terms of the specifics of the conversation you posted, Kowalski just pretty much covered everything I'd want to say, aside from one thing (and this is just a general pet peeve of mine, loads of other people are guilty of doing this and it's dumb as fuck). But why are you excusing yourself for going up to this girl? You're in a bar and she knows the deal. Having to do that implies a lack of comfort doing it, like you aren't used to talking to people and comfortable with just doing it cos you fucking want to. If you’re a cool guy and you know that shit it’s not even necessary. It's always this fashion shit as well, dudes stopping chicks to talk to them about their ugg boots and shit. That's not don juan, that's gok wan.

Ultimately, even though you arent trying to go routines or game shit it still feels try hard because you're really obviously stifling yourself and fishing super hard with shit like guessing they're a model and stuff like that. The real truth of this shit is any old shit will do as far as content goes. If your mindset is right, it'll come across implicitly in what you say. If it's stifled and unconfident, it will come across stifled and unconfident like what you typed does.

I'm trying really hard to not give you anything you can use. If just typing out what I'd say would help, I'd do that, but it won't. It'll just leave you dancing around the actual problem for too long. I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's what'll work. So here's what you do:

Your new opener is 'Hey, what's up? How's your night going?' Or some variation of that. No bullshit, and no apologising for yourself. When you ask a girl a question, don't just leave it hanging after she answers. Contribute what you think. Focus on free associating and expressing an honest opinion, even if it's 'ah I can't fucking stand Xbar' or 'admin, you poor bastard, sounds well boring'. Your criterion for success is how unstifled and honest you're being, fuck the reaction you get for the time being. That'll feel like pulling teeth at first, but the more and more often you do it the easier it'll get. Try that, and note the difference in how your reactions feel after a while.

Thanks to all who posted in this thread, btw.

I'm a little worried about disappointing Stein in case I've not internalised his remarks.

I tried to make sure to focus on free associating and expressing my own opinion. Basically CONTRIBUTING my own thoughts even if they haven't asked me, as was advised by another poster. Was slightly difficult as the 'no talking to strangers please, i'm british', was so bad with these girls that they thought the approach was a dare, but to be honest, i've had worst interactions than that!

Anyway - the short approach from last night:

2 girls sitting outside together.
me: Hey guys, how's your night going?
girls: Errrr....Hi?
me: How's your night going?
girl1: haha....what are you doing? (giggly and kind of confused tone of voice)
me: What do you mean??
girl: You don't even know us! Is this a dare??!!
me: A dare?! Yep! I just made £50 for approaching you! Not bad, eh?
girls: Ha! No, but really. IS it a dare?
me: haha, Of course not! Why would you say that? I just thought you looked cute and wanted to come and meet you
girls: Well that's unusual. You are brave.
me: Well, you're not THAT scary! :)
girls: I guess
Me: Having a good night?
girls: Not bad
Me: Just not bad? It doesn't sound like you're trying hard enough!
girls: hehe.
me: Who else are you here with?
girls: Just us 2 at the moment but we're meeting a friend in a minute
me: I'm out with a group of guys I play football with. You know....the guys who dared me to come and talk to you :) - they're over there, probably watching me!
her: haha - the pressure is on then!
me: I like pressure! So, i'm gonna guess you two are a couple of hairdressers!
Girls: wow. She's training to be one, actually! I'm in sales
me: Shit, i'm good. It was the shiny hair that gave it away! What do you sell?
girl: Technology stuff.
me: Ahhh....you're a nerd. I'm not surprised. I could kinda tell
girl: haha - you should see me when I wear glasses
me: Awww.....you wanna see me again! cute. Maybe...we'll see
girls: haha! You're cheeky!!
me: So how about you? (addressing the other girl) How goes the hair training?
girls: It's Ok
me: Can you cut guys hair? I'm in the market for a new hairdresser.
Girl1: I will be able too at some point! girl2: (looking at her phone) Listen, we have to go now, our friend just text me and she's waiting for us. See you around!
me: Wait. You're kina cool. I think you should give me your number.
girl: Sorry. I've got a boyfriend!
me: Sucks! :) - well then, enjoy your night. I'll see you around.

---------


OK, so despite them thinking that it was so odd to approach a stranger that it must be a dare, it went sort of OK. Didn't get teh number or anything, but maybe I just wan't her type? I dunno.

I think that I done slightly better with just talking about my answers to my own questions if that makes sense. (lke when I told her what I was up too even though she didn't ask me.) Free associating was maybe slightly better, but then lots of their answers were just like one word or maybe just a chuckle and so I had tonkeep thinkig of new things to say which as you know is where I struggle!

Getting laid from cold approach in the UK feels like climbing everest, and to be honest, I don't know anyone who can do it. All of my friends who get laid lots do it all through tinder and through social circle/work colleagues.

Not gonna give up, though. If nothing else, it might help me get better at just talking and social skills in general.

I did once get a same night lay from a cold approach in a bar, but in hindsight It was luck and all of the starts aligned that night!!

cheers

This definitely reads better than the last one. Stuff I'd say is this.

I'm guessing it felt a bit odd opening with basically nothing. If I had to guess I'd say that's probably the source of them thinking it's a dare. How you're feeling gets subcommunicated across automatically when you talk to people, whether you like it or not. If you approach thinking it's a big deal, they'll get that impression too. That's all good. Ride it out, the more you do it the more natural it will feel, and the more of a natural reaction you will get. You're still reaction fishing a fair bit, but again, this will even out a lot as you get more comfortable with it.
One more thing I'd say is instead of trying to get a number so early, just speak to the same girls later on in the night. It's fine to have short interactions early on, I used to just have a few super short ones to loosen up back in the day. But bear in mind, shit ain't necessarily over just because they've got to go right now. You can hit up the same people like 3 or 4 times in a night easy, in fact that's what I do quite a bit. Shit is rarely instantly on when you're starting, but you'll often find that if you hit up some girls early on then speak to them later shit is way cooler and easier. You'll find this works way better than just grabbing a number earlier. You'll often find that with a number off a short interaction girls won't even remember who the fuck you are. Focus on talking to people more, works much better, and even if it doesn't it's good practise.

Nice one for taking my advice and applying it too. Most new guys just come on here expecting to get their own preconceptions confirmed, so good one for listening, it's how you'll get better. Keep at it.

Hate to admit that i'm still struggling big time!
I'm thinking I might need some mdma or something to kick me into life! :)

I saw this really hot girl in the beer garden of a pub and she actually opened me and asked me where was good to go around here. I told her and then asked where she was from. She told me - it's a town just like 20 minute away. I told her that I used to go there and we spoke very briefly about a few of the bars/clubs there. There was a bit of silence shortly after. I tried to not 'force' anything but then she just said 'Anyway, see you later'' and went back into the bar

I then saw her later in a different bar - and some guy approached her and she was laughing and joking with him within about 30 seconds and I thought ''how the fuck did he do that? what did he say!?'' I was honestly thinking about waiting for them to stop talking and then approaching HIM and asking for tips!

I then saw the same girl hovering near the bar but near the bit where people dance in the little dancefloor area. I approached her and said ''So are you glad you decided to get out of *her town* for the night?'' and she just gave me a tiny smile as if to let me know that she had heard me, but then just ignored me and turned her back on me. Ouch. She had been friendly earlier, but now seemed kind of hostile.


Then I saw a another girl who had on an interesting pair of boots and was sitting down at a table.
I said, 'Hi, I like your boots. They make you look a bit like a gladiator! :)' She laughed and said 'thanks'. Then I asked her How's her night was going? She said 'ok'
I said 'what brings you out?'
She said 'just the weekend'. I said , 'yeah, i've not had a sober weekend in like 5 years'/ She laughed and said 'me too'
Then I said 'who are you here with?'
her: Just these two *points at her friends closeby*
I said 'hi' to her friends and gave them high fives.
Now, at this point, I just ran out of things to say. I tried to remain relaxed and not let the silence make me uncomfortable and thought maybe she's step up to the plat, but as always the case, she just sat there in silence too, occasionally glancing at her phone. Told her I had to get back to my friends and ejected. In hindsight I guess I could have asked her about her work/hobbies(?), but I just feel as though people don't want to talk about work on nights out? And I feel as though i'm missing some sort of ingredient/skill other people have where they can sort of talk about nothing at all.

Then I saw a girl on the dance floor. A bit later now and I was a little bit drunk. I don't remember exactly how that conversation went. But I definitely couldn't keep her interest. I guess since it was on the dancefloor (even though it was just a bar and not a club so not exactly a rave!) then talking is a bit of a waste of time anyway?

I don't know. I kind of feel as though it's something that 'practice' can't fix, which is what frustrates me. A bit like trying to learn the guitar via 'practice' without ever learning chord structures or something.


I just thank God that I somehow managed to lose my virginity when I was younger and won't die a virgin! I can't tell you how unlikely it feels in my head that I will 'pull' someone again! lol

I just can't seem to make a connection/carry a conversation (with strangers)

And all of my friends (at least the ones who I go out with who aren't settled down with wives etc) are just as lame as me with girls which doesn't help as I imagine i'm maybe someone who could learn from seeing, but they don't care about pulling and have accepted their fate when it comes to girls. I haven't!

If you ask anyone who started off shit at this and got good, they'll tell you it's pretty much all practise. There's no equivalent to music theory or chord shapes here. What you're practising is basically self assurance and social acuity. That all autocorrects after enough hammering away at it.

Guitar isn't actually a bad analogy. I taught guitar for years, and regardless of how much theory or chord shapes or scales you know, the only real variable that makes a difference is consistent practise over time. Even then, for the first year you'll pretty much still suck even if you practise. Same deal with pickup. It's the people who can put up with sucking at it, and still consistently go out for a long period of time that get better. That's the rub.



Having said that..

It couldn't hurt to actually find a few people with decent game to head out with, as hard as that often is. Where abouts you living?

Went to a different town last night with some friends.

I was feeling a bit down/hopeless after reading a big post about 'inner game' that implied that unless you have an amazing job in a field that you love where getting up for work in the morning makes you smile from ear to ear, you'll suck with girls. Still, after a few beers, i'd forgotten about it but decided to forget about girls for the night and just enjoy my friends company.

We went to a bar and my friend kept insisting that it was a gay bar and that all of the guys in there were checking him out! (it obviously wasn't) He wouldn't shut up, so I said to him ''Fine! I'll ask someone!'' I looked around and there were 2 girls sitting at a table.

I went over and smiled and said ''Hey, guys! Quick question for ya....Is this a gay bar?!'' They both laughed and were really receptive which took me by surprise. Probably a friendlier town than my home town where I usually drink, but also having a genuine opener probably made me feel more confident as opposed to just going over to them and being like ''Hey, what's up? what do yuo do? bla bla bla''

We spoke for a good 20 minutes and I was holding strong eye contact. I was being kind of flirty and I made her laugh a few times. I tried to do some light kino a few times. The first time when I just touched her arm, she looked slightly taken back and kind of looked at her own arm, so I waited a while before doing it again. Didn't want to creep her out.

She was like 25. Her friend was just 18 and had a really pretty face, although was a little chubby (baby fat!)

My friend turned up and chatted to the other one. It was actually going surprisingly well (first interaction i s MONTHS where they were actually asking me lots of questions and opposed to the other way around), but then my friend decided he wanted to leave them and get back to our friends, so I decided to leave them, too. I told her where we'd be later and that was that. Also thought it might be good to 'eave on a high' a they say in some pickup books i've read. And it was still kind of early.

Then went to a different bar. Got talking to 2 sisters. One was crazy hot and just 18. I love young girls!!! They were friendly enough, but I don't think they were interested. Shame.

Then we went to a little club. At this point I don't remember a great deal, but I was approaching lots of girls. I've learnt that when there's music, even if it's not an actual 'club' atmosphere, talking much is kind of pointless and it's all about touch. I grabbed a few girls and was being playful.

Then some girl started grinding herself on my really fast/ I turned her around and picked her up so she was facing me and kind of straddling me. She was very hot but she was just being a tease/flirt. I tried to kiss her. Rejected. But I acted like I didn't care, and then she kept coming back to me and grinding me again. Again I think I tried to ksis her at some point and I think again she kind of turned her head.

Then I saw another girl. I can't exactly remember quite how it happened, but we were kissing for a while. But she didn't seem THAT into me? As if she felt that it was too soon. Like she seemed a bit shy and was the first one to pull away each time. Then someone came over to me and told me that most of my friends had been thrown out of the club and that we had to go so that we could share a cab home.

During that time, the girl from the first bar ('gay bar') came in and was talking to my friend, but apparently she saw me kissing the other girl and told my friend that she was now not interested as she thought I was a 'player'. haha. A 'player'! Players get laid! I don't! Smile

I got the kissing girls number but it seems flakey, plus it's a bit far away anyway.

If she gives you one word answers better to give her strong non-verbals and show her you are comfortable with the pauses. She is testing your balls to be outcome independent and not care how the interaction goes. You clearly care about the interaction, practice not caring, practice being okay "fucking up" and find amusement in that. Find the whole thing amusing and she will give you something, if she does not she is probably waiting for her boyfriend or friends and doesn't want to be seen with a random guy (nothing personal to you).

Hope this helps

also great work on here externalising your insecurities, when you externalise (say to others) it no longer holds power over you, the more you can do it the better. I would also say be more persistent (remember the 4 times rule) and when she turns her head try gently grabbing the side of her face and moving it back to your lips while you laugh/smile. Girls love dominance combined with fun.

Thanks.

I've not posted in this thread in a little while. I've still been approaching when I can. A mixture of ups and downs, still.

All of my general sticking points seem to have remained (too many instant rejections/awkward reactions after I open (where she seems shocked/scared at being approached by a STRANGER no matter how friendly I try to be), conversation running dry, being 'in my head', unsure of how much intent to show as conflicted between 'act aloof and make HER chase VS be bold and show your intentions) as well as a few other issues.

Some nights i'll go out and feel good about some positive interactions and think I might be improving, and then the next night, it'll be carnage and i'll feel like the most socially inept person known to man!! :)

I don't know how many approaches it's been now but I'd guess it'll be pushing 500 by the time the new year rolls around - Would have hoped for more joy but it is what it is.

The thought of ever pulling from a cold approach again is feeling like a REAL impossibility, but I don't intend to quit any time soon!

If I can get laid even once next year, it'll be a successful year! I'm hoping to go on a short holiday or two next year, which could possibly increase my odds, but I won't hold my breath! I'm almost scared of going to a 'party destination' where apparently ''you can't not get laid!!'', because I know that failure will really tip me over the edge!! haha

Even though there's been about 50 approaches since my last update, i'll give a few recent approaches
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saw a cute girl sitting by herself. Told my brother I was gonna approach her but he tried to talk me out of it, saying she probably didn't want to be appraoched. I ignored him and just sat down next to her and said ''Sorry i'm late! traffic was really bad! Still, i'm here now. Yu ok?'' (same opener I used on my one and only ever same night lay)
Again it went down fairly well.

We chatted for a few minutes and then her friend came back from the bar. I introduced myself to her friend and pretended that the girl I approached was my girlfriend. Both girls were friendly to me. Then my bro and his friend sat down with us. My bro talked to the girls friend and the other guy more or less just sat there being quiet.

At on point when I commented on the girls drink she asked me if I wanted to try it. (don't know if that qualifies as an IOI or not!)
After that, we spoke about tinder and she pretended that we were in a real life tinder now and pretended to 'like' me on it.

I asked her a few questions about herself but maybe came across as TOO interested in hindsight?

Soon after my bro and his friends wanted to leave. I could have maybe asked for her number but they weren't interested in joining us at the next bar we were going to, so I just said goodbye and left in the end.

In the next bar I opened a blonde girl with ''Hey, you look Swedish''. This sort of opener seems to work for people in touristy destinations on RSD vids, but everytime I try it, I get a weird reaction. This was no different. She gave me a weird look and then sarcastically said ''Yeah, i'm swedish!'' and then walked away like i'd insulted her, lol.

Saw another girl soon after but couldn't think of an opener. The situation/her clothes etc didn't give me anything.

Then I hit the mini dancefloor. Made eye contact with a girl and motioned her towards me, but she didn't want too and gave me a look as if I was weird for thinking that I had a chance with her. Kind of scrunched her face up and looked me up and down if that makes sense.

Then another girl started backing her ass into me, but I felt a bit dejected from the previous girl and so didn't have the courage to just grab her by the hips from behind which is what most guys seem to do. Is that the correct move when a girl does that??

Had a few more beers to get some more courage.

Opened 2 tiny little Asian girls. The uglier one had a husband but was super friendly with me. The hot one was as quiet as shit and I couldn't get her to smile or talk, really. Spent a fair bit of time dancing with them though, and joking around with the uglier one

Then the hot girl from earlier started dancing really close to me. But didn't want to get blown out twice by the same girl so ignored her (at the same time, hoping that playing 'hard to get'/aloof/ignoring her would make her chase me. It didn't)

Then 2 girls cam up to me whilst I was dancing and asked me to protect them from some weird guy who was creeping around the dancefloor who apparently wouldn't leave them alone. I kind of put my arms around them and we joked around for a few minutes

Then at the end of the night I somehow found myself hugging some tall girl. She was kinoing me back, And then she started telling me how hot the bouncer was! Not sure if that was some sort of shit test, or whether she simply fancied the bouncer and wasn't interested in me. I just laughed it off and agreed that he was cute! Then shortly after I tried to pull her away from her friend to see if i could get a makeout with her, but she was a it reticent (although allowed me to move her partially the way there) and then her friend called her over and they both left.

the end.

----------------------------------

another night

Opened a girl at the bar after ordering my drinks. She wasn't particularly attractive but she was young. I said ''That's a very Christmassy cardigan!''. She smiled and told me that some guy has just given it to her. I felt as though that was probably a really good 'hook' she had given me to say something funny/interesting/tease her or whatever, but my brain just couldn't function, and so I replied with something boring like ''that was nice of him''. We had a small chat but there were a few silences. I feel as though it was a mixture of me not being physically attracted to her enough to try harder to make conversation and just generally being unable to think of much to say. However, for the first time in about 400 approaches, SHE kept filling in the silences. She was nice. After a few minutes I left her and joined my friends.

Then went to a different bar and fell a bit in love with the new bar girl. She had braces and glasses and a tattoos and a gorgeous face! So cute. But from what I read it's generally not a good idea to try to game girls that are working since they're paid to be nice to you? And if i flirt and it all goes wrong and she rejects me, it makes it awkward in the future since it's one of my regular bars. I just made a bit of small talk with her whilst ordering my drink.

Then went to a different bar for a bit of a dance.

I first approached some girl and roleplayed with her a bit. I touched her a bit. She wasn't actually that hot, though. It kind of fizzled out.

Then I got speaking to this massive Dutch guy. I asked him about the hot girl he was with and he said ''I met her earlier. She's travelling, too. She's single. Go for it!'' and he kind of introduced me. However, she was COMPLETELY not in to me. After I smiled and said like ''Hey. How's you're night going?'', She pretended that she coudn't speak English! So I obviously gave up.

Approached about 5 more girls at different times on the dance floor. Some when they kind of backed into me so i'd grab their hips, but then they'd kind of run away. Some i'd try the 'hand of God' type thing, but they wouldn't want to dance with me.

Then near the end there was a girl who my friend described as 'the hottest girl he'd ever seen'. She looked lie Mila Kunis when she was like 20. I wanted to approach her for the sake of it, but she was dancing in a little circle with her friends. It's not as if she was in the centre, bumping into guys. It was like they didn't want to be bothered as a group. Kind of isolated in the corner dancing by themselves. I couldn't think of an opener or anything anyway, so I didn't approach her.

Then I somehow got speaking to the forreign girl from earlier. I guess she's loosened up now, maybe from the alcohol? I called her out on pretending to not speak English. I asked her in a playful way ''Why do you hate me?'' (RSDMax uses that line a lot). We had a little chat, but i figured that any girl who would pretend to not speak English to avoid speaking to me probably doesn't tihnk i'm physically attractive, so i'd kind of be wasting my time, and ejected soon after.

Also tried to run some social circle game as my friends girlfriend was out with her friends and had joined us at this point. No luck, though.


---------------------------------

Another:

Made some approaches, but just couldn't really get much past the opening as the girls just didn't seem interested in talking to strangers. I also nearly got attacked by some HUGE guy who got aggressive with me for saying 'hi' too his girlfriend. I didn't know she was with anyone. Was on her own at the bar. He was about 6ft 6 and seemed a bit mentally unstable! He was DEFINITELY close to headbutting me. I could literally feel it. I know them kind of people where I live. Luckily people stepped in and diffused it all, otherwise i'd have my head caved in! lol

One other thing I would say to avoid the "shocked" reaction from cold approaching a girl is a statement of empathy e.g. "I know this is a bit out there but I just thought X about you" then immediately make statement "you seem like you really enjoy life, are always smiling and having fun". Then she will give you something that you can word associate from e.g. "I'm not always smiling buy yea I try", then you can say "I'm the same, sometimes I get a bit impatient with things too (commonality)..so what do you do with yourself when your not smiling and being happy?" Etc etc

Appreciate the fact that some people will be shocked when you approach, give them some leeway and calibrate with SoE accordingly.

NEW YEARS EVE
////////////////


First bar. I see a the hot bar girl who I actually once kissed on a night out briefly, She's wearing a hot outfit as it's some sort og 'theme night' at teh bar. I say ''That is SOME outfit!''. She gives me a weird look and ignores me! I'm in shock. Why couldn't she be friendly and banter?

We then go to a bar with a dance floor. Order some beers and hit the floor!

I'm nervous and i'm with 2 guys who NEVER approach! I dance near 2 hot girls and make eye contact and wave at them. They smile and wave back. Good. I put my arm on one's shoulder and say ''Hey! You're cute. Who are you?!'' She says ''Kelly!!''. Then she says ''what's your name?''. I said ''I can't tell you?''. She says ''why?!!!''. I say ''because, if i put a baby inside you and you have my name, you'll be able to find me and make me pay child maintentance!!''. Her reaction is one of shock. She laughed for a SPLIT second, and then puts her hand in my face and turns her back to me, and I see her tell her friend what I said!. Before you tell me off and say that was a bad line, I got a brillliant reaction from taht same line recently. You never know what is right or wrong, because every girl is different! Whatever. I thought it was funny! I was told to not adapt my humour and to 'self amuse'!

Soon after, my friend tells me that teh same girl I upset is looking at me and dancing near me, but i fell too anxiuos ton flirt with her now, after seeing her reaction!

I now approac some hot girl and tell her that she has the smalleest feet in the workd!. She did. She also laughed and we spoke brielfy. She was from Hungary. Pretty.

It fizzled out. But about 5 minutes after, IO see her again, and give her my hand. She rejects me, OUCH!. fELT Bad. And then, some other girl, acting like her body guard, tells me her friend is not interested. Feeling quite low now, but determined to perseverere.

I go to get a beer and approach 2 girls at teh bar. I couldn't think of a clever opener or anything. I just said 'Hey!!''. I asked how their night was going. Then guessed what they did for a job. They tell me they are air hostesses. I stuggled a bit to keep the conversation going. All of teh 'practice' in the world doesn't seem to help with being bad at making conversation. Anyway, I tell them to come and find me on the dancefloor.

I approach another hot girl and she gives me a horrible gesture. Kind of puts her hand in front of her eyes and looks disguested as if to say ''Please!! You are not in my league''

So now I see some chineses lady. She's old. About 55! But she is dancing with lots of attractive girls. She grabas me and asks me which of her friends i like as if she is some sort of madama at awhore house. I point at one. SHe grabs the girl and pushes her towares me.

I start flirting with this pretty girl. She is Hungarian. Soon we are kissin on the dance floor. Theh I move her away and finger her and play with her tits. Then she tells me she has to to and find her sister.

Then I bump into the 2 British air hostesses from earlier. They grab me and we talk. Dance a little.

Then the Hungarian I kissed comes back, and we make out heavily again in front of the air hostesses, which I guess ruined any shot I had with either of them.

Then I see one of the hot air hostesses who seemed to be being friendly towards me making out with some guy. Forget about them two now.

Now the Hungarian girl I kissed is grinding up against some big bald guy, but not kissing him. I think he was just a friend in their group. I spot another girl and grab her and tell her I like her. She is yet another Hungarian girl. I run some game on her. Ask her all kind of shit about her life and tease her and stuff. I kino her and she, for once in my life, is blatantly kinoing me back! She likes me and basically tells me so, but She tells me that she saw me kissing her teenage friend! (I haId no idea she was so young. I'm old, dont forget!). I said ''No, no , no. she kissed ME!!'' and laughed it off.

We come close to kissing a few times, but she tells me that MOST Hungarian girls don't just kiss random guys, and it takes a few dates before you get sex and that she's only ever had one 'one-night-stand' and that she's 29, but she was also being very touchy feely. She initiated kino a fewq times. She told me she had to go as all her friends were leaving. She kissed my neck and pecked me lips but refused to makeout despite seemingly wanting too. i got her number

Then, as I was leaving, I saw some girl on the dancefloor. I thought 'fuck it'. I just grabbed her and said ''You are cute!''. She said ''thanks!!!''. Then i Pulled her towards me. She didnt' resists. Then I just started making out with her. Then I left her as my brother was being thrown out of the club and I needed to back him up in case things kicked off

The end.

Not sure what to make of it. Making out with 3 girls, 2 of which were hot Hungarian girls is good. But I feel as though it was just a mixture of luck/dancefloor game/ and the crazy chinese girl who kind of enabled it. I'm mainly thinking about eh harsh rejections I got, but maybe that's just my state of mind. It was a great night although I don't tihnk it shows muxh in the way of 'improvement' in terms of 'game'


Going over it all in my head now.

I'm finding myself thinking about the rejections as opposed to the 'successes'. Working out if I done anything 'wrong' that I can actually learn from, or whether it was just a matter of the girls who rejected me wouldn't have been receptive to me no matter what my approach. 'No girls' as Mark Manson might say.

Other thoughts surround the Hungarian girl I made out with (and a bit more!) I felt as though to give myself a shot at taking her home, I had to build some sort of comfort and rapport, but she didn't really want to talk. Everytime i asked her a question, she just wanted to kiss! I managed to isolate her, but again, she didn't seem interested in talking. Not sure what the solution is there. I know it's common for girls to kiss guys, but not sleep with them, and I guess it's usually down too a lack of really knowing much about the other person, but with her, it felt impossible to break that barrier.

Also thinking about the air hostess girls. I think they were receptive, but that my general conversation skills let me down. It seems that i'm unable to really improve much in that area despite my best efforts and practice. Like it's an innate gift I don't have. I sometimes think of better responses and more interesting questions the next day, but it's too late by then :) - Little things like even finding out about her job as an air hostess. There's probably interesting questions I could have asked based on that, but nothing sprung to mind. My other mistake was not physically escalating with them much after they grabbed me on the dancefloor. Or even verbally. Just telling her that she is hot and then see what her reaction is like would have been better than just small talk, and then just dancing near them


edit:

OK, new memories are creeping in. Nothing much to write about, but I like to 'put it all out there' so that I can refer back to it.

I made an approach on a gorgeous gorgeous girl who was sitting down as I came back from teh rest room. She seemed to be in a group, but isolate - on the outskirts. She yawned.

I approached her and asked if she was bored. She smiled but didn't really reply. There were a couple of guys in the group and I felt them looking at me. I nearly got attacked for merely talking too a girl recently who was wih her boyfriend, so I was maybe a bit weary.

I can't quite remember what I said. I think I asked her who she was with, and possibly told her I thought she was cute. Either way, I wasn't getting much back from her, and I just smield and told her i'd see her around and ejected.

Another memory is from the 2nd Hungarian girl. The one who seemed to like me, but had seen me making out with her friend earlier.

We'd been talking for like 15 minutes and she said something like ''You just want sex for one night''. I said ''What makes you say that?''

She said ''Because you never asked for my name''.

I'm thinking ''Shit....how did I forget to ask for her fucking name!!? I'm an idiot''.

But I tried to reframe it, and I said ''Why would I ask for your name? What is in a name?? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet!''

She cracked up laughing and I kind of passed that little test I think!

Anyway, just wanted to update with that as it made me chuckle a minute ago when I rememebred it

Anyway. Failed to get my 2nd bang of the year.
Goal is to get laid once this year, but not feeling confident AT ALL if i'm honest, but you never know! I'll keep trucking away!

hey there. I'll try.
I just wanted to make sure that I write how the actual conversation went, but I guess I could just be more laconic along the lines of ''Opened girl at bar but fizzled out after a few mins'' kind of thing, as opposed to going through what was actually said and stuff. I think other paragraphs are just my own thoughts on the interactions, but i'll see what I can do!
cheers

Ah, OK. I just sometimes put that sort of stuff in as I just know that people would say ''Why did you leave her at that point!!?'' and then i'd have to make a separate reply saying ''because my brother was being thrown out and I needed to back him up'' kind of thing :) (but yeah, some things could certaonly be cut out without much of an effect)

OK, went to a different town last night.
Immediately different, less hostile vibe in terms of the girls. It's a posher town.

I know people say you shouldn't blame your logistics etc, but I live in a rough area and It often seems like if you aren't 6ft plus and haven't got a skinhead and neck tattoos and an extensive criminal record, then girls dismiss you quickly or feel entitled to be rude. They aren't like that with intimidating looking guys, though.

Anyway, in the first bar there was LOTS of beautiful young girls everywhere. I had bad AA, although, once again, I was able to notice that the source of it was more 'my friends' as opposed to 'the girls'. I fear them watching me get rejected more than the girls rejecting me! I don't approach. Feels bad. Did I mention that there were 8's/9's everywhere!?


Next bar//
My friends are all outside smoking and there's a hot girl near me close to the bar. I open her:
''Hey, you! I need your help''
''What's up?''
''Where's good to go In this 2-horse town? I'm not from around here''
She laughs.
She asks me where i'm from and stuff and I kino her a little bit immediately. She asks my name and I tell her that I can' tell her because I don't want her stalking me on facebook. She seems to find this hilarious and is kinoing me. Then she tells me that she's married but that she's got some cute friends that are single. I tell her that she's the only one for me and hug her. She's super giggly. My friends come back in from their smoke and tell me they want to go too a different bar. I say goodbye to the girl.

next bar//
It feels like them sort of bars you see on PUA vids in Eastern Europe. once again, my friends don't want too approach, I see a gorgeous blonde girl with wavy hair sitting down and she's glued too her phone.
I open her.
''Hey! It's a great app, isn't it!?''
''What is?!!''
''Tinder!! I saw you swiping away. You can't fool me!''
''haha!! No!! shows me her phone and she's messaging her boyfriend
Pretty much a lost cause but we chat briefly. I tell her she's cute and that's why I approached her and she lights up. Genuinely pleased. She asks me questions and says that i'm cute and that she's flattered. I guess I left her better than when I met her which is better than nothing. I go back to my friends.

next bar//
My friend is at the bar getting served and there's 2 girls near him. THEY kind of open HIM (he's pretty handsome and married. The rich get richer!! Smile).
One is fairly pretty but is a little bit fat. The other isn't my type at all.
I open the prettier, fatter one.
''Hi! Are you being nice to my friend??''
''No! We're being mean to him''
''I've met girls like you before. Bullies!''
We kind of hit it off immediately and they follow us back to our part of the bar where me and my friends were prior. We branch off. The girl in the glasses is talking to my other AFC mates, and i'm flirting with the prettier (yet fatter) one.
She's asking me lots of questions. I accuse her of flirting with me and fancying me.
She plays along and sort of roleplays? ''Yeah, I think you'er amazing!''
I say ''Tell me the 3 things that you like so much about me'' (i'm just being a dick, pretending that I love myself and putting her under pressure like i'm interviewing her)
She tells me that she thinks i'm smart and a few other things.
I'm kinoing her a fair bit now. Unsure how to gage her since she isn't touching me back at all, although she hasn't left (which RSDMax says is the biggest IOI)

It's late and we all leave together, I assume to get a cab (remember we're away from out town) but than the girl with glasses mentions that she has some drinks at her place. (these 2 girls live together)
I'm walking with the prettier one. We are laughing and talking and we slightly 'fall back' from the rest of the group.

I go for the kiss. Denied!!! (she pulls away and turns her head)

I made it a resolution to be more brave in terms of going for the kiss so that I don't wake up with regrets. To be honest, It wasn't that bad. I just laughed it off and then started talking about something else that made her laugh whilst also kind of touching her and pushing her away from me in a playful manner.

We get back to their place and i'm sitting on the couch, flirting with my girl and the other girl is kinod of sitting on her own and my friends are all just sitting around not doing much, and almost immediately they talk about getting a cab home.
There's no way I can afford a cab home on my own.
They all leave the room to do something (I forget what) and the girl asks me if I'm staying or going. She's basically asking me to stay. I tell her i'm not sure.

I go for the kiss again. Success. We kiss for a bit and it's nice.

I let down my fellow posters here as I end up leaving with my friends.

I feel it was basically 'in the bag' but between the skinful of alcohol, the fact that she wasn't completely my type, and the fact that I didn't want to be stranded out of town and pay a fortune to get home on my own meant that I decided to turn down the 80%+ possibility of sex and share a cheap cab with my friends.

THOUGHTS:
Fairly successful compared to usual in terms of zero bad reactions to my approaches. However, I can't pat myself on the back too much as i'm certain it's down to location.
It's why i'm so jealous of the US guys here. I'm instinctively certain that i'd do so much better over there based on what I see. Just the social willingness to talk to strangers.
I wish I could remember more of exactly what I said in the interactions since it was all positive last night. It's weird how sitting here now I kind of can't imagine being able to sustain a long conversation with a stranger and don't know what to say, but in the moment, I was on fire last night. I just remember lots of talking/flirting/and laughing on the girls part.

All of those interactions sounded really good - good stuff!

You really should have stayed, she was your type enough for you to go for the kiss twice, go back to hers & flirt with her. Fuck the taxi home,you could havefigured that out in the morning after a night of sex.

Yeah, after a few weeks since then of pretty much pure rejection, I am regretting my decision if truth be told!

My goal is to get laid once in 2017, and I think I may have threw my only shot away! D'oh!!

Nonsense - theres a new girl around every corner!

To get laid once is a pretty limiting & precise goal, that doesnt sound very confident. Why only once? Why not get laid 100 times?

More specifically, how about just aim to have as many flirty interactions with women your interested in & then see if the potential for sex arises afterwards? If all thats on your mind is getting laid you may come across as desperate & that goal puts a lot of pressure on you if you dont get sex- bothof which wont contributemuchtoward sex.

Had issues with this years ago.

Then i realised you don't really need to talk.

Just smile and do random stuff... watch loads of TV shows like friends, scrubs and just be like a TV sitcom for a bit.

When they ask what u do just brush em off... once u do this for about 5 mins and use kino u can start being normal

Stop talking, have fun

Dude, what? Lol. I ain't watching Friends and Scrubs for no fuck.


Peace,

kowalski

listen, that american sit com behaviour is now part of my personality.

I'm like a mix between

Chandler,
Ross,
peralta (brooklyn 99)
JD
Schmidt (new girl)

and a series of other stolen jokes from similar shows...

i have an arsenal of comebacks in so many scenarios... and sometimes... i mix comebacks...

Oh yea! Some call me the comeback mixer...(i dunno)

I'm too cool for that, bro.


Peace,

kowalski

Because I just can't force my brain to be completely illogical.

If i'm like 30 and have only slept with a few girls in my whole life despite my best efforts, on what basis would it be that I can convince myself that I can sleep with 100 girls in a year? I understand teh sentiment and the 'shoot for the moon' philosophy, but I think it'd be like a business who made 10k in year 1, 9k in year 2, 11k in year 3, and now they aer giving themselves a target to make 13 million in year 4!! :) - It just seems daft to me

I'm only cool when I'm sussing someone out, or angry.

otherwise I'm a bit flamboyant like an american.

Most of the bars were fairly quiet so I only started making approaches when we got to one of our regular bars that is a bit more like a small club as it has a dancefloor and stuff.
There were 2 girls by the bar. One of them was a 9. Easily. As hot as hell. My brother said she was like the prettiest girl he'd seen all year, lol.
My bro and the other guy I was with never approach so it was down to me.
I opened her. I can't actually remember what I said. I think I might have just stolen the default opener used by Vadim of honestSignalz where he just describes her, so I might have opened her by just looking at her and saying ''Girl in the yellow dress!!''
She didn't give me an instant rejection which was nice and we started talking a little straight away.
I heard my brothers friend behind me, talking to my brother about me just after I opened her, and he said ''He's good, isn't he!!'' lol. Made me chuckle. I think he meant 'brave' as opposed to 'good' as he's well aware that I NEVER get laid.
We spoke for a bit. Since she was so hot, I thought i'd take some 'game' advice and use some mild negs like how MaxRSD says to assume that they have a crappy job, so I think when she told me to guess what she done for a job, I said ''Waitress??''
She acted offended. I'm not sure whether she was actually offended or she was kind of playing. Turns out she is a lawyer in training and a stripper/dancer!
Once we'd exchanged basic info (age, job etc) and done some light teasing, I couldn't really think of what to say and the interaction kind of fizzled out.

After that, I tried to game her friend. Not as pretty, but good enough. I tried to build a connection in terms of working out what sort of person she was. She told me she'd been travelling and then I said she must be an adventurous person and I tried to guess what she was like when she was younger and what she was like in school and stuff. All things I've read about in pickup books. But after a few minutes her sister turned up (super hot and barely legal) and then she didn't seem to want to talk to me any more.

Next I saw a girl I who I actually briefly mentioned in one of my previous FR's. Someone who rejected me a different time :)
I spotted her and I could tell that she didn't recognise me (it was some months ago) so I though 'fuck it' and tried again!
I opened her by saying ''You look like you're from (xxx part of town)'' (I remembered from out previous interaction)
She was like ''Yeah!! How'd you know?''. I said ''It's written all over your face. It's a gift I have''
Then we started talking a little bit and I told her I've spoken to her before. She had an equally gorgeous friend with her and I think I tried my luck with her after the other girl kind of stopped talking to me. She wasn't interested either, though.

Then I went into a different part of the bar to get a drink and there 3 chubby girls dancing around, and one of them started grinding on me. I kind of spun her around being playful. Then her friend started grinding on me and she was prettier, although still fat.
We were kind of holding each other and I after a while I though i'd kind of 'test' her reaction/feel her out. Basically something I read recently where you come close to kissing her, under the plausible deniability that you actually just want to talk into her ear. You gage her reaction as you get close. As I got close she looked really freaked out like she was horrified that I might be going in for the kiss, so I bailed soon after. She must not have been into me and was maybe just playing with me.

I probably approached maybe 5 other girls after that on the dance floor, but nothing came of any of them.

Went out both Friday and last night.

FRIDAY
———
Worst part of the night was not having the balls too approach two gorgeous young girls who were sat outside in the beer garden fairly early into the night. A blonde and a brunette. Both my type. Young, slim, pretty faces.

i’ve experienced lots of ‘instant rejections’ from hot young girls recently, and I just couldn’t stomach the kick to the ego of having it happen again, especially so early into the night. they were gorgeous, though!
It was also partly a ‘competence’ based fear/approach anxiety.
Like, I looked at them and tried to work out what I was going to say after I opened. Usually people advise some sort of cold read or a comment on something they are wearing or something, but nothing was jumping out and I didn’t just want to do what every other guys does and just be like ”how is your night going?” as people tell me that that is NOT a good thing to say straight after opening. Still not really sure what the best ‘post open conversation starter’ is, really.

Anyway, after that place we went straight to some smallish club with a dancefloor.
I started approaching on the dance floor.

I tried a couple of ‘hand of God’ type moves and trying to make Eye contact and pretend to pull girls towards me with an imaginary rope (has worked before for me) but none of them wanted to play.
Then I tried a few verbal openers Like commenting on a girls dance moves or something. Most kind of ignored me. One of them talked back a little, but I ran out of things to say very quickly.

Then I went and stood near like a pillar close to the dance floor and drank my beer. There was a girl sitting next to me who was OK looking, but nothing special.
I opened her with ”I can tell you’re dying to get out there and dance”. She actually laughed even though it’s hardly a hilarious opener which made me think she might be interested.
We started to talk a little. I ran out of things to say a good few times, but I DIDN’T eject, which is something i’m trying to work on! There were some awkward silences as I was thinking of what to say next, but luckily she filled in the gaps a few times. Turns out she is a GRANDMOTHER at 37 years old! haha. Quite funny that i’m only in this to get hold of young girls, and here I am hitting on a grandma! She was actually OK looking though, and I assumed she was maybe 26 when I approached.

Then her friend turned up and done some mild cock blocking and kind of tested me.
Funny how it’s often actually the friends that try to make me look bad and test me. Happens a fair bit. It’s usually the targets friends who shit test me as opposed to the girl herself.
This friend was giving me shit about being young and not being able to grow a beard! I’m 30 but look about 24 adn that’s usually the age I tell girls I am.
Having no facial hair (genetics) is actually something that I used to hate and even looked into facial hair transplants at one point. However, I made my peace with it some time ago and now I actually kind of like having smooth skin as it make me look younger which is probably for the best since i’m always lying about my age to young girls and they seem to believe me!
I laughed it off and agreed about not being able to grow a beard and even grabbed the friends hand and made her rub it against my soft skin and I told her ”you love it!”. Meanwhile, the girl I approached seemed to be enjoying me teasing her friend and her attraction was growing.
I done some light kino on her.
Soon after she got up and was like ”listen. I really have to go! It was fun meeting you” and she walked off outside. It was close to closing time. I didn’t really care, obviously and just said ”Cool See ya!”

About 5 minutes later I was in the same spot, just talking too a friend and felt a tap on my back. She had come back. She pointed to teh corner of teh bar, as in she wanted me to follow her.
She asked the bargirl for a pen and told me to write my number on a piece of paper. Told me she thought ‘we had a connection and you have good banter” lol. We walked outside to meet her friends, but whilst we were on our own, I went in for the kiss. Just to practice escalation, really. She didn’t pull awy and we made out. Then she left.

SATURDAY
—————

Interesting night. Both frustrating, but possibly a few positives, too.

I’m out with just 2 friends. Both AFC’s but my attempts at pickup, despite generally failing for the last 9 months seem to have inspired them to try (a little bit!)

They leave to have a cigarette outside. I’m now sitting near two hot ‘2-sets’ in close proximity. I’m desperate to open one of them, but I just don’t have the balls. I think about saying something like ”Hey. My friends just left me to have a smoke. Keep me company for a minute!”. I don’t have the balls, though. Partly because both sets seemed to be so engrosssed in conversation and giving me zero kind of IOS/invitations to approach/eye contact etc.
My friends come back. After a few minutes one of tehe hot ‘2-sets’ get up and leave. I feel the sense of lost opportunity which inspires me to ‘man up’ with the other 2 set.

This 2-set is in fact a 1-set, temporarily, as her friend has gone too the bar. I notice that she is holding and checking 2 phones. Typing away.

I slide over to her and open with ”Hey! Are you texting yourself?” It barely lands and she just tells me she’s trying to find out where a certain bar is. I tell her it’s basically next door. She tells me she lives here, and I tease her for not knowing where the bar is and ask her if she’s been in prison for the last few years or something. She laughs.

At this point, even though i’ve opened her and she laughed, I find myself completely shutting up and it becomes slightly awkward. This actually happens a fair bit. I think, I notice that she is still slightly uncomfortable about talking too a stranger, and my INSTINCTS always seem to be to back away. I can’t seem to help it. It’s like, unless she’s asking me loads of questions straight away, I feel as though it’s a dead-set.

I re-ignite the conversation when her friend comes back. We small talk. She tells me she’s an air flight attendant and is 21. She guess my age to be much younger, and I go with it!
Soon after, she tells me they’re going to that bar. I’d told her that were were going there too, and she said ”Maybe i’ll see you in there”. I said ”Cool. See ya!”#

5 minutes later we leave, queue up at the bar. Suddenly the girls join us in the queue. We talk a little bit. We all enter the club together, and then the girls spot a massive group of HOT girl who they know! I’m talking gorgeous Spanish air hostesses. One STUNNING blonde Russian one. A like 6 others! They tell us to join them and their friends!! ��
We all start dancing. I keep trying to ignite small talk with my one. The 21 year old girl from France (but she has an English accent).

We are all dancing together. The hot blonde Russian girl is basically being raped by random guys. It’s amazing how creepy some of these guys are! I actually almost respect their balls, though! They are just groping her. She pushes them away. They come back 2 seconds later and grope her again.

She kind of has herself to blame, though. She kind of grinds up on random guys and flicks her hair in their face. She actually done it to me. I tried to open her on the dancefloor (I never know what to say in these situations….HELP??) and she blows me off. She’s kind of rude and has an attitude in the way she does it, but she is as hot as fuck.

I chat briefly with the Spanish one, but make a dick out of myself! Basically she tells me she’s Swedish. She’s being sarcastic because she obvsiouly isn’t, but i’m ‘in my head’ so much that I don’t get the joke/her sarcasm, and say some words in Swedish! She asks me what i’m talking about and I call her out for not being Swedish and then she’s like ”Obviously!”. I try to recover, but I feel like a complete moron, lol

I find my girl again and some guy is now creeping over her, but I can see she’s doesn’t like it. I step up to her grab her by the hips and pull her into me.
She asks me to go outside with her and her friend. We banter more.
We go back inside and carry on dancing together. I’ve got my hands on her, and she doesn’t seem to mind at all.

I think this is where I fucked up, because I didn’t go for the makeout at any point whilst we were kind of grinding.

HOWEVER, It was partly on purpose. I read a lot recently about how making out in the club can decrease your chances of getting laid. PLUS, I was having difficult isolating her and didn’t want to try to kiss her in front of her friends since she’s feel like a slut. However, lets not lie. I was also lacking balls! Classic case of not wanting to ruin a set that seems to be going ok
A few minutes after she walks past me and tells me her and her friend are going home ��
Feels bad. She was hot and young. Like a decade younger. And I was basically the only person all night who she SEEMED to somewhat like.

I don’t go for the number, either. Error again on my part.

I spend the rest of the night trying to open girls on the dancefloor, but 100% failure rate.
Lots of girls seem to dance real close and you think they want you to open them, but when you do, they look at you like you’re on fire, lol.

It was a fun night, but teh interesting thing is that if I hadn’t have opened them girls (albeit it was a kind of awkward open) then the night would have been CRAP!
All of the girls in the group were nice to us since we were kind iof WITH the other girls.

AA has been bad recently, but made an attempt to fight it head on and took action last night

I made about 15 approaches, but lots of them were short sets, instant blowouts, non verbal openers etc, so i’ll report on the few that stick out in my head.


Approach 1 – was dancing in a bar and there’s two hotties next to me. I open with a mystery method opinion opener. (recently completed the book off of the back of a recommendation on this site). She starts to talk a little but is being quite laconic. I remember to involve her friend and high five her and introduce myself. The thread ends and she isn’t talking. This is usually where I bail, but I tried my hardest to ‘plough’. I start to make a few assumptions about her and try to tease her. She laughs, but again, she isn’t talking. I ask her what she is up too tonight and ask her how she knows her friend. I” trying my best to ‘plough’ and not let the conversation die, but it’s a bit like talking too a chair at this point. I struggle on, though! At this point they both just turn away from me and walk outside.



Approach 2 – Walk in too a different bar. Spot a hot black girl standing with a friend. I look at her, point at her and say ”I want that one!!!”. Kind of a ‘self amusing opener”. She smiles. I offer my hand out. She takes it and I pull her towards me. I say ”Do you like white boys?!!” She laughs and is like ”I guess”. I say, ”Cool. ‘Cos i’m super white….I can’t dance….I’m good at math.”.. She laughs. I say ”Who are you?!”. We speak a little bit.Do the usual getting to know you stuff. I think I threw in my ‘mystery’ style opinion opener (even though it wasn’t the open, but I think you are allowed to do that in order to help the convo along). I t felt like it was going rather well. Then some guy turned up and she looked at me and said ”I’m with him!”. haha. Big guy, too. I laughed and high fived him. He was actually friendly, and then they both went and sat down


Approach 3 – Spot another girl. I look at her and smile and just say ”hi!…I’m Chris. I’m pisces. I like long walks on the beach”. It was just what came into my head. I didn’t want to use canned openers ALL night. She laughed and introduced herself. I done some assumption stacking and also asked her a few questions about herself, but the set just never ‘took off’. She never asked me anything about myself. Don’t know if I could have done more, or whether I was simply flogging a dead horse and she would never have been into me no matter what I said/done. It fizzled out.


Approach 4 – Interesting one. I made a Field report a while back about a girl who I met in a bar in a different town – done well with, then went back to her house where we made out and she asked me if I was staying. I didn’t stay because I couldn’t afford to get home by myself as I was away from where I live and shared a cab with my friends. Anyway, I saw her again! She recognised me! I grabbed her and instantly flirted. It was easy because we actually had something to talk about and we spoke a lot about the last time we met. She accused me of not remembering her and said I was ‘a player’, lol. I was ramping up the kino LOTS. I was also thinking about my mistakes last week with a different girl where I never seeded the pull or went for the kiss – both of which I feel hurt me. So I asked her whether she had any drink at her place, trying to kind of invite myself back. I isolated her, and we carried on talking, and I went for the kiss and she turned her head, Denied. If you read the last FR with this same girl, you’ll see she done this that time as well until my 2nd attempt where she complied. We went and danced with her friends..
She was slowly paying me less and less attention. I started talking too her more attractive friend. She was very pretty indeed! Just done some light flirting. Just being fun and physical with her. Anyway, the whole group then decided to go home. I think I might have made another last ditch effort to invite myself back, but no luck!


End of night. Happy that I found my balls, I guess.

Ventured out to London last night for only the 2nd time in my life. Had high hopes, but it was an awful night in terms of 'game' for me.

Not much of a Field Report to post really, unfortunately, since there's just not much to mention in terms of the interactions.

I opened a Canadian girl in a bar for my first approach with an opener about her checking her tinder when she was engrossed in her phone. I tried teasing her and stuff but she told me pretty quickly that she had a fiance.

I opened another girl in a club who also turned out to be Canadian. She had one friend with her who was busy hooking up with some random guy next to her. I tried gaming her, 'making assumptions', asking her questions, etc, but she was just not really responsive. Fairly cold towards me. There was at least one really awkward moment where I ran out of things to say, she didn't talk either, and we both just stood together in silence awkwardly watching people dance. She didn't leave me, but I think that's just because she couldn't really since her friend was busy getting dry-humped so after I ran out of material I bailed on her.

I opened a girl on a Hen night. Asked her which of her friends were getting married as my opener, but I couldn't get her to talk to me, really. I made assumptions' about her and stuff, but she didn't bite at all. Was mildly awkward. Her body language was not remotely welcoming, lol

I opened a couple of older women who were some what responsive and started asking ME questions and stuff, but I didn't actually even find them attractive. I just wanted to keep the momentum going.

The only remotely positive interaction (which was also a very short one) was the second I walked into the club, going down teh stairs, and made eye contact with a pretty young thing. I pointed at her and smiled. I stopped her. Asked her who she was. Spun her around and then hugged her and she complied with everything. But she was on her way out as I was going in and her friends were calling for her to hurry up.

I got one of my harshest ever dancefloor rejections too, lol. Some girl in a group kept kind of half grinding against me. Not full on grinding, but dancing super close to me despite there being space on teh dancefloor. I kind of put my hand on her hip and then she spun around, slapped my hand as hard as she could, and then pushed me with all her force! I didn't really care but for the fact that my friends all saw and laughed, lol!


Sight seeing:
I did see some of the prettiest girls i've ever seen last night, though! When I first got there, there was a group of Russian girls. They looked about 17-18, and they were all 10's. All with their young boyfriends.

I saw a barman who probably gets laid every night running his game which was fun to watch. Looked like he had a system/routine for banging tourists in his bar! He jumped into their photo when they were taking one, told his bar staff to 'cover him' (they looked at him like he does this every night) and then he jumped over teh bar and started chatting the girl up and kinoing her, and then got her a free drink. I wish I could have evesdropped in on his conversation to learn what he says/talks about.

I also saw a blonde STUNNER who I keep thinking about in the club.She was part of the hen night group I mentioned before I think. She had on like a sports bra and looked like a model. Gorgeous face/eyes/teeth. Young too. Some guy was all over her. I thought he'd ruined it for himself since he was so KEEN/needy? She pulled away first on every kiss. Every time he went straight back in, hands all over her. PULL, PULL, PULL....No 'push' - Just seemed super try hard. When I do that teh girls tend to lose interest, so I thought he'd ruined it, but then I saw him grab her hand and march her off somewhere. Player!! Probably banged her in the tiolets or something. I don't imagine she would have left her friends for the night since they were on a hen night, but who knows...

posted that latest FR on a pickup blog, and i'm told that I need MORT STRUCTURE and that I should be using the mystery method.

So I read the book on the back of that advice.

I've approached a few girls trying to implement the ideas in the book.
But I get very confused in the moment. Forget what i'm supposed to do. Forget what i'm supposed to say since it's all so structured and exact.

I'll Open with an opinion opener. (Do you think 'Justin Beiber is hot', or whatever)

I think after the opener i'm supposed to 'neg' her, but i'm not sure what to neg her about (assuming nothing obvious stands out), and I have a bad memory so find it hard to memorize certain 'negs' i've seen online (not to mention they might not be congruent)

I think this is still the 'attraction stage' and I need to do more things like tell DHV stories about myself (such as saving my ex stripper girlfriend from some guy or whatever, to show 'leadership' and 'pre selection' etc)

Assuming she now thinks i'm hot (not entirely sure how I know when to move on, but maybe she's giving me IOI's?), Now I think i'm in the 'male to female' stage (a3) what if i've used up all of my attraction material and she still isn't interested, though?? Do I need to memorize about 50 DHV stories?)

OK, assume i she's attracted. A3 - I need to ask her questions about herself, get her to 'invest' and qualify herself and reward her with indicators of interest. Again, my bad memory makes this hard to remember this stuff in the moment - What questions to ask and to remember to 'hook, bait, release' and use 'push pull' techniques

Now that comfort and rapport are being developed, I can go for the kiss.

Then bounce her to the sex location and close the deal

It's just all super confusing in the moment, though. I kind of get the theory, but you still need to know what to say what if the opener doesn't 'hook' or she isn't interested in your DHV stories or gets upset by the 'neg' etc?

Do any of you strictly follow the mystery method here?

Or is it only for LA girls in VIP sections of clubs etc?

It just seems so different to what people like the RSD guys seem to do where every approach seems to be completely unique and improvised and doesn't seem to follow any sort of pattern. Sometimes direct. Sometiems indirect. Sometimes instant makeout. Sometimes lots of boring interview questions. Sometimes open with a weird funny roleplay etc etc.
But i've been told that I need more 'structure' (hence was advised to read MM)

I try to apply MM in my head to past approaches in hindsight and try to imagine how it might have went.

For instant, the dancefloor girl recently. I opened her by asking which of her friends were getting married.
She pointed. I told her she looked Italian and she didn't say anything. I asked her her name. She replied. I asked how old she was and then she kind of 'dance away' from me, lol.

Now, if I imagine I was using the MM on this girl on the DANCEFLOOR
How might it have gone? I'd have opened her by asking 'who lies more, men or women?' or something?
Assume she replies. Then I neg her about something? (When I neg UK girls, it never goes well by teh way...even playful ones...UNLESS THEY ARE ALREADY HEAVILY INTO ME!)

So should I almost go out with a certain opener, neg and then some sort of DHV story in mind, almost tattood on my arm so I don't forget?

So every interaction will look indentical?
OPEN with 'line A', she responds
NEG her with 'line B'
DHV by using 'story C'
etc etc.

Not sure what route to try next.

Does everyone here follow a strict model where everything they say all night is all planned - what they will say, and when??

Bro.. expect Kowalski to be all over this!
You need to read his shit, then answer your own question.
This planning strategy is just useless in my opinion. As soon as you run out of the canned shit, your back to your boring self.

Can I ask, do you just feel awkward in general around all people, as I get the feeling you do. You overthink every situation. If I start to think and believe my interaction with anyone is getting awkward of course it quickly becomes awkward. Whereas if I genuinely have a desire to know and learn about the girl in front of me as well as trying to either get a smile or bantering, the interaction will be so much more fluid.

Can you use your job to your advantage some how? Trying to get in more 'normal' social situations to enhance this?

Yeah don't bother with MM. Controversial comment but MM has loads of dynamite stuff in it that works but only if you actually have game already and can chat up girls.

Focus on being able to have a normal conversation, playful/flirty, and closing.

I followed it, but it wasn't working, lol. The advice was basically jsut be yourself and don't put any pressure on trying to entertain the girls. Lower the standard of what you think hyou need to say. I done that, but they got bored which lead to lots of instant rejections. Girls want fun. As per my field report, one girl called me out for boring her because I asked about her job! Hence I had to start looking into routines and stuff which is what lead me to MM

But yes, you're right about me talking to myself a bit on this thread, lol. Super quiet forum

i'll try my best going forward to keep the posts shorter) and to implement the advice about giving my own answer to my own question after she has answered (or even if she doesn't bother answering). And also always opening with '''Hey, what's up? How's your night going?'' as Stein staid to do (part of the reason I stopped doing that was because RSDJeffy said it was the worst opener ever and that your opener needs to 'stand out from the other guys') But i'll stick with it for this journals sake. 'But other than that, i'm obviously still gonna be 'winging it' in my interactions