It's another discussion thread from yours truly!

This has the potential to be a fairly personal topic, but it'd be good to get the lie of the land. I remember discussing this matter with Hustler when I first met him, and finding that we had both very similar and very different experiences

I've always had a difficult relationship with my dad. The reasons are far too numerous to get into in one simple post, but they boil down to:

1) Me being the male form of my mum - extremely chatty and personable, prone to having blonde moments, and being never quite sure of what's going on
2) He is controlling to the point of being ridiculous. He feels that, because he failed all his A-levels and ended up doing something he hates (being a teacher) that he has failed at life, and is determined that I succeed where he has failed. Determined with a will of stone and a ruling fist of iron (remember GCSEs? I wasn't allowed to see my best friend at all for the entire duration of revision and exams. Adequate revision time was deemed to be in excess of 3 months before the exams. This is but a taster of the discipline I'm talking about).
3) I am the most chilled out, easy-going person I know - this in itself is enough to drive him up the wall because it appears that I do things without putting my best effort into them.
4) My dad is very insecure when it comes to such nancy-boy things as "feelings" and "quality father-son time" (he's an extremely Yorkshire person) and as a result has never related to me on an emotional level.

I wonder if it is because of this uneasy relationship with my dad that I have found my abilities with girls to be lacking in the past few years before joining the community. Whether the deep-seated, core-level confidence that has been missing has been missing for precisely this reason - a basic lack of proper relationship with my dad.

Interestingly, I've found that since joining the community, and especially in the last couple of months, my relationship with my dad has improved no end. Coincidence? Perhaps. Maybe it has to do with my deep identity-level change that I'm going through, maybe to do with the fact that, as I enter my 21st year, I'm maturing as a person anyway.

I'd like some stories from you guys. What are your relationships with your fathers? Do you feel it's affected your personal limitations not only with women but also with life? Have things improved since you joined the community and decided to sort your lives out for the better?

Indulge me and spill the beans fellas.

I think your onto something here regarding parents etc.......however regarding relationships with my parent I get on with my dad very well, however me and my mum dont normally see eye to eye, because we are both quite similar, stubborn and wont back down.

However I think my rocky start with women can be linked with my dad, he married the first women he dated and therefore I believe never played the field. I believe this has had a big impact on my female success, whilst I have a sister which has made me very comfortable around women it has also meant that I have been LJBF'd alot. I feel that if my dad had learnt more about women, and had more relationships then he would be better able to advise me (if I ask him for advice now, he hasnt got a clue). My father is also very traditional in the sense that he doesnt understand having fun with women and playing the field. He also find this stuff (self-improvement) funny and useless, however I believe that to some degree it is due to his lack of experimentation, that I need to learn this stuff.

On the contrary, my mates dad did play the field alot and his mum says he was somewhat of a player when he was younger, he is now quite successful with women and the relationship with both parents is very good.

I remember that conversation we had. I do believe the relationship you have with your father and both parents affects you profoundly. Similarly Alex, my relationship with father echoes that of yours. My father also feels he has failed at life, is full of regrets bemoans his current circumstances yet doesn't have the drive to take right action. He is a rather bitter person and quick to judge, he struggles to say anything positive or give encouragement to people. It is a shame because as a single-parent to me and my brother (my mother left him, I don't blame her) he was the only role-model we had. We to began developing his character traits and a pessimistic view of the world.

However for me, since going to university and more recently joining this community I have become more broad-minded and independant, my confidence has improved, I have my own values and I do not need the validation so much from him to tell me that I am doing the right thing. Whereas as a child he would dictate to me and I would be a quiet well-behaved boy I can now stand-up for myself and express my own view if we are in disagreement. By his nature he will argue despite being in the wrong, I will just smile and pity him to the point I will call him out on his bitterness or pessimism, then he usually shuts up.

Here's an extract from the book 'The way of the superior man' by David Deida. It's helped me with taking a more spiritual view toward life despite the americanised wishy-washy language. It's been good for my inner game.

'LIVE AS IF YOUR FATHER WERE DEAD

A man must love his father and yet be free of his father's expectations and criticisms in order to be a free man.

Imagine that your father has died, or remember when he did die. Are there any feelings of relief associated with his death? Now that he is dead, is there any part of you happy that you need not live up to his expectations or suffer his criticisms?

How would you have lived your life differently if you had never tried to please your father? If you never tried to show your father that you were worthy? If you never felt burdened by your fathers critical eye?

For the next three days, do at least one activity a day that you have avoided or suppressed because of the influence of your father. In this way, practice being free of his subtle expectations, which may now reside within your own self-judgement. Practice being free in this way, once each day for three days, even if you still feel fearful, limited, unworthy or burdened by your fathers expectations.'

Agree with you totally Blanca... Our core values, the ones that form our deep identity level are those that are picked up from our parents, we get others from our friends at teen age years and then we form final set in our early 20's but the strongest ones are the values that rooted from our parents..

Parents dont ever really see their own behaviour as a form of value, they see it more as in the lessons they teach e.g. dont steal, dont be nasty to people etc...

My Father sounds very similar to yours, he feels cheated by life, thinks that councillors, chief executives, therepists etc are all tosspotts that are out to fill only their own pockets and dont care about anyone else.. I remember my ex wife used to say I had the qualities of my mother and the "other stuff" (crap) from my dad and she had a fair point.. If I reacted to something in a certain way I would literally imagine that I was looking through my dads eyes and that was at 28 years old. I now live back with my parents and plan to for another 8 months and my dad still hasn't changed, he's extremely controlling of my mother, flies into ridiculous rages and is completely perplexed that I couldn't give a damn if Labour get's in at the next election or the local football team I support looses. He also thinks I'm a bit weird for using moisteriser and hair straighteners (I can forgive him on the hair one). He also doesn't get the self development thing.

I started deep identity level change after the breakdown of my marriage, I expect the old man wont until his breaks down too and I know that there is a strong possibility it might!

Interesting topic!!

Yep,
Very difficult relationship wiith my father. Shame really, because he's a natural with women, could have taught me alot. He became more violent when I was a teenager, then my mum, took us away from him when I was about 16. Mad, I as a teen I felt like a worthless piece of crap, who doesn't deserve to waste anyones time by talking to them, especially women I fancied. My childhood kinda sucked.

But that was passed. Present is what counts now

Easy.


Yeah I've never been that close to my dad. Never been with him for a pint in the pub, or to a football match, that kind of thing. I sometimes think about it and it makes me feel pretty sad. I would like to think that before he croaks it we will get on better and have more to talk about.

I think that your relationship with your parents undoubtedly has an effect on your overall well being. I often think to myself that the reason that I am quite distant from people that I don't know very well is because of my unfulfilling relationship with my dad. I'm pretty damn lucky that I've got an extremely loving mother, otherwise I could have ended up a pretty miserable character.

I had a pretty easy childhood and I think it only got a bit tougher when my parents divorced when I was about 14, I lived with two women (my mum and my sister) so that might have helped me being around women but my mum might have been too lenient on me and didn't really tell me not to do things in my teens. So that might be why i'm lazy at times.

BUT I think the important thing is to not use it as an excuse as to why you have certain faults and to just say "it's due to my parents" instead of actually taking positive action recognising your faults and doing something to change them.

I agree with Tom here. Dwelling on the reasons behind any potential flaws in your 'game' with women is futile. Through learning to better myself I can identify how my Dad is not the best role model in many ways, but it's my life so it's up to me.

Aye, I agree with what Tom and Nova are saying. Whilst those of us who have not had the best relationships with our parents can recognise and identify why and how these relationships may have affected us and perhaps even shaped us (to some degree) it's all too easy to put the sole blame on our up-bringing and these sorts of relationships alone.

Just because your dad can be abit of a twat and is crap with women, doesn't mean you necessarily are. It is not inhereted, if anything it is only a memetic behaviour you have adopted and if you wish, you can change those behaviours. My dad is by no means good with the ladies, therefore I do not seek his advice or look up to him as a role model in these sorts of dilemas.