I've been a long time lurker on here, and I've recently registered. Posted a few times asking for help, and the more I read, the more I've noticed myself increasing my confidence, and generally being a bit brighter and more outgoing.

I've done a few things recently which is so much progress for me, but the success isn't quite there yet. I've never opened anyone in my life, I've always had approach anxiety, so these will sound small, but represent a big deal to me.


1. Opened a HB8 on the train who had sat next to me. I'd said nothing to her for about 15 minutes which was a mistake, but it was me plucking up the courage. I couldn't think of a single way to start the conversation. In my head, I thought about saying "Hi" and taking it from there, but I imagined her saying "Hello", and then I'd have nothing to carry it on with! In the end, I got my phone out, then turned to her and said "excuse me, where are you heading to?". She said "Bristol Temple Meads", so I came back with "Ah right cool, me too....do you know how long it'll take?", pretending I needed to text someone that information. She told me, and I said "Thanks, that's pretty quick, quicker than I thought. So, you live around Bristol then?", and she said "No, just visiting for the day.". I was then a bit stuck. I'd have liked to say "It's a pretty nice city, do you need a tour guide", or something a bit cheeky, but I couldn't really pretend to know Bristol that well if I'd just asked how long it'll take to get there, so I got caught up in my own lie, and just went quiet again and fiddled with my phone. Epic fail. Still, was pleased I'd gotten over the anxiety, even if I did suck at the conversation.


2. The following day, another train opener, this one went slightly better. I was on a train where 3 carriages were going one way and the other 3 another way when it got to the next station. There was a muffled announcement, and I was a bit confused. I then noticed a stunning girl, HB8, sitting 2 seats down, so I asked her what carriage we were in and where it was going. She didn't know, so we had a bit of a chat about how confusing the trains were. When it stopped, we both got out and figured it out, and we were now walking together and sat next to each other in the new carriage. Chat was going reasonably well, she was studying at my old uni, but again, I completed froze. I asked her what course she was doing, and she told me biomedical sciences, and all I said was "that's pretty impressive", and then had nothing else to say. For some reason, I couldn't think of anything interesting. I had to get off the next stop anyway, so I was really annoyed that I blew it. Need to work on not freezing midway through chats. To be honest, she didnt seem that interested - I always had to start the conversation again, and it felt a bit flat anyway.


3. This one was another epic fail. I decided to take a risk and try and get the number from someone at work, who I'd seen once or twice before, enough to knew her name, and we would occasionally nod a hello, but she definitely wasn't a friend. I approached her one day in the canteen, and said she looked terrific. She smiled and said thanks, and then some of her friends interrupted us and took her away. Still, I thought it had gone reasonably well, and the next day, I saw her from a distance and waved hello, and then sent her an email to say "Hope you don't mind me saying, but you have outdone yourself again today, you're looking beautiful". Little bit of a wussy email but from what I know about her, her self-esteem isn't high so I wanted to be a little bit respectful and gentle. The response I got was "I don't think that's appropriate for the workplace, making me feel a bit uncomfortable". I felt that was a little over the top, but I guess some people don't like compliments! I really don't think I was being seedy or anything, but maybe her self-esteem is so low, she gets freaked out by compliments.


4. Online, I set up a profile on POF and OKCupid to test whether I could attract people with different things I was saying and I've had a bit of success, managed to get 5 people's numbers. There's one in particular that's confusing the hell out of me. She's so hot, about a HB9, and is leaving to live abroad in 2 months. That's fine, I thought maybe I could get some fun before she goes, and we've met up a few times. We've had some awesome evenings, and the chat has been flowing and fun. She was on POF for "friendship", but I assumed that since she met up, she might be interested in having some fun for a while. She then texts me randomly and says "what are you after with me. I'm OK with friends". I took that message to mean she might be interested in more but if I wasn't, that was fine too, so I took that as a bit of encouragment. I wasn't sure the best way to play it, I'm sure there was a cheeky response which might have raised attraction (I toyed with saying "My intention was to sleep with you and never call you" in a cheeky way as I'm sure she'd have taken it in a funny way, but decided it wasn't worth the risk). I went with honesty, and said "I'm not after anything major obviously as you're leaving. Just catch up every now and then, have some fun until you go." She seemed to accept that and carried on texting me, but I'm not sure if she took that message as fun=fooling around or fun=friends nights out.

Anyway, she's always pretty unresponsive to flirting - if I tell her she looks hot, all I get is a thanks. I met up with her again, another cool night, ends up being late. Choice is between going back to hers and me getting the train home. I mention that to test her reactions, and she's pretty quick to choose the train. Might be a bad sign or might be cos her house was genuinely in a messy state which she didnt want me seeing. Anyway, we walk for the train and miss it, so her house is the only option now. She's open to inviting me now saying "yeah stay at mine, it's fine" but not overly enthusiastic. Anyway, get to hers, and there's no signs at all from her, we sit and chat for a bit, and every time I think about kissing her, or making a move, she says something to make me pull back, like "I've met a couple of cool friends from POF" like friends is all she wants. She says stuff like "I don't want to be a cock tease" - I can't really figure out what she wants.

I'm torn at the moment between just going for it and seeing what happens, or playing it slow as I think she's a girl that has to feel close to a guy, to trust him before she'd think about fooling around safe in the knowledge he wouldn't get in too deep and cause problems. At the moment, I'm playing the longish game and staying friendly, but I'll probably try and force the issue soon.

She's displaying massive IOIs like always touching me, pushing me away playfully, laughing at my jokes, texting me first, etc, but then on the other hand, she is always just friendly, never really flirting, not giving out any compliments, and not inviting me to stay herself, and making a big show out of giving me the spare room, etc. Confusing!

Anyway, at the moment, I'm classing this as a success that I talked to her, and got her out into real life, and have got her texting me regularly. Friendly or not, that's a success to me.


5. In Tesco - HB7 was working behind the till, and there was no customers around so she looked bored. I was buying stuff, so put it through, and then said "Hey, you looked bored, thought I'd give you something to do". She smiled and said thanks in a sarcastic way which was cool, but I had nothing to follow up with. Again, my stupid mind can't think of ways to continue the chat!


I've had zero success at all, but I'm strangely pleased that I've approached people. My confidence has risen, I'm interacting with friends better, and I feel brighter and more outgoing.

It's a small-scale victory and people will probably read this and think it's been a total failure, but it's a small starting step.

My problems now remain conversational skills, having things to say, and ways to build attraction. I'm still not convinced I'm that attractive so I need to work on improving my confidence in that area.

First of all, I don't think thats a failure at all, and I doubt everyone else will either.. everyone starts somewhere...

Don't beat yourself up if you can't find anything interesting to say. Its not just a one sided conversation. She has a mouth, a brain, and thoughts, she could also come up with something to say.

Just try and think to yourself, to be situational. If she has a book, talk about it. Also, make your life more interesting so you can tell her stories about things you do. Start some sports, go travelling, go camping, or something cool. That way, you'll always have some backup topics to talk about, also showing her you ain't boring like everyone else talking about the weather.

The girl in the workplace, I say.. don't shit on your own doorstep. But fair play to you for trying. Just smile to her in a non creepy way from now on, and if you really wana pursue it, wait for a work party! Make sure you don't creep her out so she grasses you up to the bosses...

Don't worry too much about this chick from the online sites.. get yourself in abundance with women, don't focus on just one. Go out and sarge some more and forget about her, and when you're fucking some HB10 or whatever, you'll totally forget about the bird thats now fucked off abroad.

None of that is failure, its all small steps to your overall success.

Concentrate on your image. Get a better haircut, do something to get fit and active, buy some nice stylish clothes, feel awesome in yourself then go out and pickup some more women

danieljamie has it straight what you've done is ace and his advice is spot on. To throw my 2 meagre points of advice on top:

Take it a step at a time but always stay on the edge of your comfort zone. Firstly get used to opening (which you already have done). For me I went out with a friend over several nights and I opened and opened. Next few nights I worked on conversation and building attraction (be natural with this, i.e. flirting), then i worked on my closing by finding good ways to get numbers and non-flakey day 2s. don't rush to do it all at once, step by step on the edge of your comfort zone

Secondly your compliments are to vague and AFCish. Girls hear "oh you're hot" or "your so beautiful" all the time - you need to tell them why they are beautiful. What is it about them that attracts you. I opened the HB10 who I just had a day2 with by telling her "Your smile brightens the world just by being in it" cheesey. If she's your style tell her " damn I like your surfy style" or "I wish all girls dressed as smartly/ casually/ sporty/ hippily as you!"

I think my interpretations af HB's are a little different from everyone elses. You guys are talking about HB8s, 9s and even 10s above quite casually. I labelled MISSTX a HB8. HB10 is top level no? Rare. Surely HB10 is Aniston/ Jolie/ Johansson/ Alba etc HB9s models/ strippers. HB8s the hottest seen day by day unless youre very lucky. Thats what I was always taught, maybe Im wrong...I guess it's the individual's standards.

Anyway your progress is good man...at least your doing it, in the first instance. Feel confident in yourself for actually having the bottle. But its my opinion that if all youve got are generic, obvious compliments, you may as well not say anything at all. All those things in your head that are cheeky are spot on. You just have to have the conviction but tranquility when you say them. Youre caring too much about what she thinks of you. You need to say those things like you dont care what her reaction will be. You shouldn't too much anyway, because whats the worst that can happen? She wont respond, as she didnt anyway. But i garuntee you'll get more of a response if you do. Say it with a toungue-in-cheek smile (not literally). Dont say 'do u need a tour guide?'.....tell her she needs one to enjoy the city properly.

Email will always come off like that, by sending it you just basically told her you darent go and speak to her face-to-face. You might as well have gone and admitted that to her face-to-face.

Those IOI's with POF girl though....that IS flirting mate. Definite flirting. You just need to escalate the contact. Push her back. Give her friendly hugs.... then play with her hair. If you make jokey contact into more caring, sensual contact....and she lets you, she will feel more like kissing. Time is ticking though by the sounds of it, im sorry to say, friend zone imminent unless you just go for it. Tell her "Do you know what? I havent been listening to a word youve said for the past five minutes...all ive been thinking about is kissing you..."

I have troubles approaching so I'm in a similar position to you.
I just wanted to say well done! As al_phaD said, we all gotta start somewhere!
Keep it up!

10s FAQ is a good place to start on why this is. And as far as your aforementioned 10s go you have to remember that they are filmed in different lenses, photoshopped, made up etc. so you have to take everything with a pinch of salt.

I love that thread on 10s !

That and Jaz's why you get rejected & 2-set routine. Sometimes it's a ball-ache going back through the old stuff but definitely worth it!

"fun" is chick speak for casual shagging when used in the context of a dating site or any interaction with a man.

In order for a compliment to be a flirt it should have some sexual context or overtone. It should be laced with hunger and lust, not aesthetic admiration which to women is generally very non-sexual.
An effective compliment is one that makes her feel like a tasty meal than a newly polished Ferrari.

A lot of chicks have to cope with this duality of loving sex but being also having this image of themselves as "good girls". This being the case you have to avoid putting her in a situation where she has to verbalise an overt sex/no-sex decision. Also you need to (kino) escalate and set a sexual tone to the interaction, so that by the end of the evening you should holding hands as you walk home to her place (without having asked her permission), any suggested unease or objection being dissarmed with "well thats what your spare rooms for - right ?". I can't stress enough how gradual physical escalation and non-verbal sexual intent is key in the case of a girl with "good girl" self image. Being too respectful is something I've been very guilty of in the past because in some of us its very deep social conditioning.

Its just "stage fright" and you'l naturally be better when you relax more as you get more practice. Also you are probably being overly stifled in conversation because your setting too high a bar, trying to make every word you say fascinating to her when in reality most women are happy to talk about random shite. Remember that talking releases pleasure chemicals in the their brains. I hesitate to recommend learning routines and stuff but one trick I use is to have a conversation topic for every letter of the alphabet in reserve, if I get stuck I just pick a random one. Like "m" is mars bars haha yeah seriously - you can have 10 minute conversation about mars bars (how they have shrunk is size by 30%, how the scottish batter and fry them blah blah).