Hey guys,

Wanted to post a few recent learnings I've had around dating.

I had been out of the dating scene for a few years and started back into it - was getting ghosted a lot, even by girls who, tbh, I felt were "beneath" me looks wise. These were Tinder dates (obviously haven't had much action in bars until pretty recently).

I think I had been applying a lot of "bar game" to dates. And tbh thinking back I'm not sure if the "bar game" I was using in the past was even my best style for bars.

I was always very heavy on the escalation / sexual tension vibe, and it worked at times. But recently for Tinder dates it was falling flat. Sure, I occasionally was sleeping with women, but then they ghosted me. Even the ones I wasn't sleeping with were ghosting me. When I turned off that vibe they always said there was "no spark".

Here's a few things I learned. Feel free to question/challenge/critique - this is only my current understanding and there's always more to learn!

1. If you're an attractive guy and you're going in all sexual/escalation, she's gonna be on red alert - "Player!"
2. Connection is super important
3. If you escalate too quickly without a proper connection, the vibe is gonna be all weird, unless she's just looking for sex
4. "No spark" doesn't necessarily mean she's not interested in you, it can mean she thinks you're not interested in her

So I changed my approach - cut out all the kino, cut out all the sexual tension stuff, cocky/funny, etc. Just be relaxed, properly connect with the girl, appreciate her as a person, learn about her deepest feelings, ask her about growing up, what makes her tick, her hopes and dreams. Lots of questions. Open up about all of these myself - she might not want to share first.

Sprinkle in some compliments and light flirting to show my interest, but don't try and get close or touch her or anything like that.

Basically cut out all the "game".

The transformation in results has been amazing. Much more interest - girls jumping on me and kissing me, much less ghosting.

The reason (I think) - less player vibes, less pressure, showing more balanced interest (ie. balanced between sexual and her as a person).

IMO shows that sometimes, "less is more".

Anyway, this might be obvious to some of you guys, but it wasn't obvious to me. Interested to hear your thoughts on this.

It reads like you used to be doing instead of being. Then you started just being. But now you are analysing just being so that you can repeat it thus transforming it back into doing. This will eventually lead to the same issues you were having previously when you were doing and not being. And it'll circle around like that.

I think you should stop at just being and thus be present in and adaptable to whatever the vibe is.


Peace,

kowalski

Yeah, good point, I think you're right.

Do you think there are times where you have to be "doing" to an extent, if there's something you want to introduce into your conversation that you're not used to saying?

For example, I had to specifically think in order to introduce flirting/compliments, because it's not something that comes naturally to me, but it's something I know I have to do.

Or should that work come beforehand, thinking/rehearsing, so it flows naturally when you're actually in front of a person?

Obviously if you're thinking atm then like any "skill" with decent practice it should be come more automatic, analagous to learning how to play poker (I was going to say driving, but game has variable returns).

I suppose this' why advice for beginners is often to improve fundamentals and looks, to make it easier to reinforce/learn flirtatious behaviour. That way once you've got the vibe evened out, then that takes over.

Z

Yeah definitely important to have fundamentals in place first. Otherwise it's just a cycle of fail, fail, fail and you get zero feedback from that.

It's only really recently I've gotten to a place where I'm succeeding enough to get decent feedback on what I'm doing. Before that I was mindlessly following (some) pickup stuff and I think tbh the vibe was just weird.

What you say also reminds me of this: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence[/url]

So you spot something you need to change, you consciously change it, you start to do it unconsciously, you get good at it and then you spot something else you need to change, and.... repeat.

But I think it's important to be doing stuff unconsciously well before trying anything new, otherwise you start cramming too much stuff in consciously, like me with the pickup stuff, or what kowalski mentioned above... then the vibe is just... weird.

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Reflection is great thing. Like you, I also recently cut out some "gamey" bits on dates because I thought those were causing failure.
I realised later there were a few fundamentals I had dropped off over the last year or two through developing bad habits.
I recently added the more timed kino/routines/escalation back in and it is fireworks.
The key is timing and understanding what stage you are at in the seduction.

Is being called a player a common theme for you? If that is how you are perceived, how do you use it to your advantage?