I understand when you first start out that using routines & openers makes it easier & less terrifying to talk to women. But after say the first 10-15 girls you talk to or the first couple of weeks of makig a dedicated effort to do so, they don't really serve a purpose after that. They don't help you get laid/dates/relationships any more so then how you would fare if you didn't use them.

If you genuinly want a girls opinion on if phone sex is cheating/who lies more, men or women etc etc, thaty's totally cool. Ask her the question and when she gives you the opinion, thank her & be on your way. That is after all all your doing - your using that line to ask her an opinion, she gives you an answer - job done, mission accomplished. You've got her opinion on your question.

If you want to chat up a girl or be social or show her some interest, why on Earth would you ask her if phone sex is cheating? That's just fucking weird. If you happen to be in the middle of a conversation about phone sex or you overhear one that's different, but to go upto someone and just ask that out of the blue makes you look like a fucking nutter. To come out of the blue and just ask someone that question - you'd be as well asking her if in her opinion global warming will be the death of mankind, if she prefers reading paper backs or on a kindle or what in her opinion is better: leaving School straight away & getting a job or going to College first. They are all the same thing: completely random questions out of thin air that don't really do anything. What's wrong with saying any of the below instead?

Hi, whats your name?
Hi, my name is x, whats yours?
Hey, I love that jacket, it's totally cool
What is the deal with ths drunken dancing guy over here?
Have you guys had a good night tonight?
Hey guys, where have you been tonight?
Hey, you look pretty cool. Whats your name?
Hey, my name is x. I think your really attractive so I thought I'd come say hi.


It doesn't really help though because your just on autopilot. Your not going to get very far if you can't think for yourself, you'll get found out pretty quickly. Why not tell your wing to just go up to her and introduce himself & ask for her name instead? Or tell her he thinks she's hot?

Yeah they are meant to be, I understand the purpose of them. Make yourself look different than everyone else & come across as cool & interesting. You can do that by simply saying hi & asking for her name. None of this really has anything to do with the words that come out of your mouth. In some ways your also using this weird & wonderful opener to impress her, and you should never be trying to impress a girl. Get her attention or let her know who you are, yes, impress no. What happens once all the canned lines & routines run out & you can't think of anything more cool & flamboyant to say? Your going to be totally fucked and she's going to see right through you & realise your a complete fake.

You mentioned in your previous post that you've realised the most attractive thing about yourself is that your a singer. That's cool that your a singer & you have a hobby that you enjoy, but it's also a bit sad that you think that's the most attractive thing about yourself. Dig deeper and find & look for something more. How would things be if you weren't a singer? What would be attractive then? If you weren't a singer, how would you talk to girls & without singing, what instead would it be that women find attractive in you?

Feel like I'm jumping on when the conversation has already bolted, but broadswords is right in his first line.
routines just get you to start talking to people.
technically though everyone is using routines to some extent - they're not ubiquitous but called your highlight stories

I agree with this a lot. That's why I like personality Games. I've also heard Any Schemer refer to that sort of thing as a date question. Just building comfort and rapport.

It depends. A few gimmicks and routines aren't the end of the world. I know a normal guy who uses them as he finds the funny and actually has an attractive personality to go with it.

The problem is they are often used as a crutch. Like this is all you have to say and the reactions they get define whether the girl likes you or not.

And thats why they shouldn't be used for people trying to learn 'from scratch'.

Rather than being a social, cool, good looking guy who can flirt whilst being normal and a bit of a challenge or at least having a spark.