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Default 29-12-2020, 06:14 PM

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Originally Posted by kowalski View Post
Dude, no way you reading War and Peace in a week though. It takes about 50 hours of actual reading time and although it isn’t difficult to read it’s slow af.
Yeah I know man there's quite a few on there with 1000+ pages and that's one of the reasons I'm glad it's been reduced down to a list of 40. And even at that, this list is still a tall order. I think it's probably doable though. Or at the very least, there's a bit of leeway from the pressure of reading one every single week.

Very much looking forward to War and Peace though, and The Brothers Karamazov. Did you ever get around to reading the latter by the way?


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Default 29-12-2020, 11:36 PM

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Right, so I went through my list, removed a load of the shit, and replaced the shit with much better material. Think of the first list like a rushed, rough draft. There's some classic works of literature in there now that had been on my radar. It's also been reduced from 52 to 40. Quality over quantity.

I had 125 books in my eBook app and I deleted 51 of them. When I thought to myself "do I really give a fuck about El Chapo, or the true life account of Pablo Escobar's brother?", the answer was no, I don't give a flying one.

You'll see one self-development style book in there by Robert Greene. I figured that since I claim him as my favourite author in this genre, I'd delete everything else in the genre and only keep his work.

It feels great to have removed all those books. One of my problems was that once I'd download a book, I felt some sort of obligation that one day I'll have to read it. It gave me an overwhelming anxiety that I had all these books building up, but now I've been relieved of that burden and will never again read books for the sake of reading them.

I'm much happier with this list..

1. Totalitarianism in the Twentieth Century
2. A night to Remember (Titanic)
3. The Kreutzer Sonata (Tolstoy)
4. Dear Leader: Poet, Spy, Escapee (North Korea)
5. The Laws of Human Nature (Greene)
6. The Road to Wigan pier (Orwell)
7. Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin
8. The Nemesis File (SAS vs Provies)
9. Shantaram (G. D. Roberts)
10. Nothing to Envy (North Korea)
11. South: The Endurance Expedition
12. The Years of Extermination 1933 – 1945
13. War and Peace (Tolstoy)
14. Auschwitz: A Doctors Eyewitness Account
15. KL: A History of the Nazi Concentration Camps
16. The Brothers Karamazov
17. Ratline: Soviet Spies, Nazi Priests
18. Hitlers Willing Executioners
19. A Clockwork Orange
20. The Night Lives On (Titanic)
21. The First Circle (Solzhenitsyn)
22. Anna Karenina (Tolstoy)
23. The Origins of Totalitarianism
24. One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest
25. Dear Reader (North Korea)
26. The Time Machine (H.G Wells)
27. Nazis on the Run
28. Catch-22 (J. Heller)
29. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich
30. The Girl with Seven Names (North Korea Escapee)
31. A New World (Huxley)
32. The Science of Evil
33. The Choice: Embrace the Possible (Auschwitz Survivor)
34. Beyond Good and Evil
35. Under the Same Sky (North Korea Escapee)
36. The Gulag Archipelago
37. Island (Huxley)
38. Escape from Freedom (North Korea)
39. The Black Count (The real Monte Cristo)
40. Meditations

Some might think it's still heavy on the totalitarian and Nazi stuff, but as I said before I'm deeply interested in this.
I don't read as much fiction, but I really rate "A Clockwork Orange", I prefer it to the film, probably my favourite novel/novella. "A Brave New World" is good, I remember enjoying it more than "1984". Have you read "American Psycho"? Starts off a bit slow, but I found that quite entertaining. I've read "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" as well, but with that, I preferred the film.

In terms of self-help books, have you tried Alain de Botton? Of the little I've read from Robert Greene, (which was about half of "The 48 Laws of Power") I wasn't that impressed, but I suppose it's personal preference.
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dan300 (30-12-2020)
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Default 30-12-2020, 12:09 AM

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Originally Posted by HaveACuppaTea View Post
I don't read as much fiction, but I really rate "A Clockwork Orange", I prefer it to the film, probably my favourite novel/novella. "A Brave New World" is good, I remember enjoying it more than "1984". Have you read "American Psycho"? Starts off a bit slow, but I found that quite entertaining. I've read "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" as well, but with that, I preferred the film.
I watched A Clockwork Orange years ago but I was a stoner and had zero fucking clue what was going on, but now that I'm into dystopia novels I think I'll finally appreciate it.

I tried the audiobook of Brave New World a while back but my audiobook mission didn't work out, it's too hard to stay focused on the story when you're doing other shit. I'm just sticking to podcasts and lectures on audio.

Haven't read American Psycho, nor seen the movie.

I believe I've seen Cuckoos Nest years ago too but again, I wasn't into reading then so it's going to be brand new to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveACuppaTea View Post
In terms of self-help books, have you tried Alain de Botton? Of the little I've read from Robert Greene, (which was about half of "The 48 Laws of Power") I wasn't that impressed, but I suppose it's personal preference.
Having spent 10 years reading self-development, I'm surprised to have never heard of him. What do you recommend?

I read 48 Laws of Power. I actually like the way he writes, I find his use of historical anecdotes to emphasise his points and theories quite engaging. As well as giving me ideas for historical figures to research in future.


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Default 30-12-2020, 01:33 AM

(I don't know how you quote specific points on here)

Definitely watch American Psycho, if you like that, then read the book.

Of de Botton, I quite liked "The Consolations of Philosophy" where he uses some of the Philosophy/wisdom of people like Epicurus, Seneca, Montaigne, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, and how it may help you in your daily life, I read it about 20 years ago, it's a quick read, not too in-depth. "How Proust Can Change Your Life" was another decent read, "Status Anxiety" wasn't bad either. I kind of liked his books more for the other writers/artists he turned me on to.

I recommend Baltasar Gracian's book "The Art of Worldly Wisdom" (translated from the Spanish) which is basically the book Greene seems to have ripped for a lot of his 48 laws. It's a small book of 300 maxims, but does the job.

One writer I've read bits and pieces from is Michel de Montaigne, I'd like to read his complete essays but have never got round to it.
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Default 01-01-2021, 04:05 PM

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Originally Posted by HaveACuppaTea View Post
(I don't know how you quote specific points on here)

Definitely watch American Psycho, if you like that, then read the book.

Of de Botton, I quite liked "The Consolations of Philosophy" where he uses some of the Philosophy/wisdom of people like Epicurus, Seneca, Montaigne, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, and how it may help you in your daily life, I read it about 20 years ago, it's a quick read, not too in-depth. "How Proust Can Change Your Life" was another decent read, "Status Anxiety" wasn't bad either. I kind of liked his books more for the other writers/artists he turned me on to.

I recommend Baltasar Gracian's book "The Art of Worldly Wisdom" (translated from the Spanish) which is basically the book Greene seems to have ripped for a lot of his 48 laws. It's a small book of 300 maxims, but does the job.

One writer I've read bits and pieces from is Michel de Montaigne, I'd like to read his complete essays but have never got round to it.
Sounds like you've read a lot of philosophy. I tried Beyond Good and Evil and got about 30 pages in and found it difficult. I remember thinking, "What is this? What am I reading?".. As you can see I've placed it on my list, willing to try again. However, is there any of the books you named above that you'd recommend me replacing Beyond Good and Evil with?


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Default 01-01-2021, 06:48 PM

I've not read that much Philosophy to be honest, it depends what you're interested in. I suppose "The Republic" by Plato is a good place to start.

I recommend the book "The Grass Arena" (I've mentioned it on here before I think) that's an enjoyable read, it's the autobiography of John Healy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grass_Arena (he was born in London to Irish parents).
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Default 03-01-2021, 08:28 PM

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Originally Posted by HaveACuppaTea View Post
I've not read that much Philosophy to be honest, it depends what you're interested in. I suppose "The Republic" by Plato is a good place to start.

I recommend the book "The Grass Arena" (I've mentioned it on here before I think) that's an enjoyable read, it's the autobiography of John Healy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grass_Arena (he was born in London to Irish parents).
I don't know what I'm interested in because I've never read any philosophy. I believe Beyond Good and Evil was my first attempt at a philosophy book.

I'll maybe swap it for The Republic. Or maybe I'll give it another try. I'll see how I feel when I get that far on my list.


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Default 04-01-2021, 12:24 AM

It’s tough to dip into original long form philosophical texts. They tend not to be in the form “hey, this is what I think...” Rather they assume the reader understands the general history of the specific topic and has read the key texts. So right off the first page you are tuning in to a global conversation, which does not acknowledge you, and that has been ongoing for thousands of years.

It would be very difficult to do without guidance.

There are books explaining what philosopher X was saying but summary is interpretation and there are translation issues over what philosopher X was saying anyway. So they can’t really tell you what philosopher X was saying only philosopher X can, but they can give you enough background and some simplified explanation that could enable you to engage with the text.

And that’s the next part. Philosophy isn’t for reading, in the sense that you read it and think “ok, I have read and understood that”. It is a conversation and you need to join it. You have to engage with the text. You need to acknowledge and check each point in each of their arguments. What are the premises, what is the conclusion, are the premises true, are they necessary and sufficient, does the conclusion follow from the premises, etc.

I recommend reading some essays rather than full texts. They are more accessible because they are shorter, focus on a single interesting argument, are self-contained and tend to be of the form “hey, this is what I think...”

And maybe a good history of philosophy book or summary of a specific philosopher or area of interest to you. However, know that whatever you learn from the history or summary book is not an accurate representation of the arguments of any philosopher. However, it will give you enough assistance that you should be able to understand them when you later go read them.


Peace,

kowalski


Like a stray bullet, you niggas misled

Last edited by kowalski; 05-01-2021 at 09:13 AM.
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Default 07-01-2021, 09:44 PM

Awesome, that makes sense even though I've never even engaged in philosophy.

I was adding some philosophy to my list as Dr Peterson often talks about and recommends Nietzsche. But having tried Beyond Good and Evil, getting through about 50 pages before I had to stop, thinking "do I get this? no, no I don't get it at all", your explanation / breakdown of philosophy does make sense to me.

I'll seek out some popular or well received essays first then.


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Default 08-01-2021, 02:18 PM

Nietzsche had some groundbreaking ideas but it is notoriously hard reading.

To dismiss him offhand one would say that he believed that some special beings would emerge to rule over us who he called the ubermensch (almost definitely not spelled like that) who would mistreat us for their own benefits, that it is inevitable and will be the best thing ever. So the Nazis took his ideas and maybe misinterpreted them. And he definitely influenced that nutter Ayn Rand. Probably AI will turn out to be the ubermensch that he didn’t realise he was talking of. The end.

Which is mostly bullshit... but also a good debater could argue that this interpretation is accurate, plus it makes for a better movie plot or genocidal motivation than what he really said.


Mortal Questions by Thomas Nagel is quite a fun read. His most well known paper is in there “What is it like to be a bat?” which is great. His short book / long paper “The view from nowhere” is also interesting and quite readable if you enjoy his style.

Philosophy of mind: a guide and anthology by John Heil is a great collection of essays.
Philosophy of language by A P Martinich contains a lot of the stuff that influenced my own writings.

I can offer more suggestions in normative ethics or classical philosophy but I’m a philosopher of mind and language primarily and haven’t studied too deeply into other areas.


Peace,

kowalski


Like a stray bullet, you niggas misled

Last edited by kowalski; 08-01-2021 at 02:33 PM.
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