Recommended material?
 

Hi Guys,


Total newcomer here, so bare with me . . . . . . .


I dont really have the time at the moment to go onto an NLP course, and as Sync already noted in his sticky, I should avoid broad NLP courses that are not specifically catered to this area. I was just wondering, is there any PUA specific material that you fine peeps would recommend that would help wet my appetite and at least help me garner a basic understanding of this area? I'm not naive enough to think there is any "quick path" (christ . . . see how many star wars jedi references I throw in here), but If I ever do pluck up the courage to find a mentor in this area, I would at least like to feel confident enough that I have a basic grasp of the subject. Many thanks in advance.

I agree, if anyone can recognise a Jedi reference, it’s Jesus, however, if your appetite was any whetter, you'd be shitting razors :)

Ross Jeffries is the guy who first put NLP and Seduction on the same plate and his is the most thorough menu of uses, however, he does have something of a reputation for linguistically smashing skulls. Obviously, the application of the tool is your own responsibility and will ultimately reveal your intentions. Add to Google and lightly pepper in “NLP” and “Seduction” to get enough articles to scrum yourself to bursting.

However, before you expend precious time and energy seeking and preparing ingredients, an important question might be, "At what point do I feel confident that I have achieved a basic grasp of the subject?”

“When I can…..”

Your answer will clarify what you actually want to eat, how much energy is actually worth putting into preparing this meal, when you’ve decided that you’re fed and if you’re that hungry in the first place.

A crafty snack might be instead to set time aside each day to sit quietly and practise, remembering the quality of, and then, lengthening the time you can, spin in your body feelings of calm, power, playfulness and joy. Your most magic words and actions will flow effortlessly from here.

You’re doing it already.

Yum.

I would recommend 3 books:

The Game – Neil Strauss
The Rules of the Game – Neil Strauss
The Mystery Method – Mystery

All available through amazon start here once you get these down then you will be ready to move onto Ross Jeffries and NLP/Seduction.

Double O,
I would add to that Tony Clink's "The Layguide." Sort of combines MM with SS.

Steve P and Hypnotica the Masterfull Inner game gurus. They use powerfull language patterns and deep trance phenomenon to effect change at deep deep level within you.

If Frogs is the best thing you've read on the subject of NLP that tells me that you have obviously not read any other book on NLP, plain and simple. You certainly haven't read NLP: The New Technology of Acheivement, or The User's Manual for the Brain. I would even argue that Unlimited Power provides a better overview. Also, there are NLP techniques/exercises as part of Rules of the Game. Although I believe that anybody on this forum would benefit greatly from a practitioner training, I think they are more interested in the applications to seduction than an all out course on NLP.

That's sad because it is an amazing book. There are some truly excellent exercises in there to improve inner game.

Hmmm, more detail required perhaps.

Structure of Magic 1 & 2 was the first but reads like an academic thesis on transformational grammar. Basically, it’s Bandler and Grinder geeking out hard over the baby.

Once the initial models were put together, a few books published and a few prodigal students trained (Robert Dilts, praise be upon him), Grinder and Bandler split as, for those who don’t know, Bandler is a touch crazy. Don’t hold that against him though as the man says himself, “I may be crazy but I know what I’m doing.”

You better believe it.

A good metaphor for the early NLP scene would be hacking. You got your super ethical White Hat hackers, your Call em like I see em Grey Hat hackers and the No holds barred Black Hat hackers.

Bandler, being the Grey to Black Hat pattern recognising genius went on to develop more stuff solo while making a shit load of money and then got involved in some seriously nasty shit while Grinder, being the Grey toWhite hat academic, went on to develop, synergise and formalise many new patterns, with the help Judith Delozer, Carmen Bostic and Dilts, to create New Code NLP.

Then lots of other people got involved.

The Andreas’ (New Technology of Achievement), Tad James, Michael Hall (teaming later with Bodenhamer – Users Manuel) and Anthony Robbins are but a few of the earlier ones. Together they created and added to the NLP field from their work and experiences based on the basic template patterns modelled by Bandler and Grinder.

Bandler, being the NLP creative equivalent of John out of the Beatles, tried to slap everyone else with a lawsuit to trademark NLP. Obviously, this failed so he went on to create and copyright Design Human Engineering and taught it with John La Valle. Basically, while NLP chunks down to sequential patterns DHE chunks up to simultaneous principles. DHE has remained very pure in its copyrighted state, requires an expert of NLP to teach and is nothing less than epic when properly executed.

NLP, however, was getting big.

Enter Ross Jeffries…

As you can see, the field is massive. Many of the books published all have valid multiple perspectives, from different points of development, on a very subjective field and have different variations on the processes involved. Amid all this good stuff there’s also plenty new age bullshit out there being milked too.

Understandably, the aspiring PUA may be reaching for the Vaseline.

If your outcome is greater success with women then centre on pick up focussed NLP, whoever it comes from. IF you feel a general NLP book is necessary I’d say Jaz is on the money with Joseph O’Connor - Introducing NLP or NLP Workbook as its format makes it highly accessible to the learner. Many of the others, while very relevant, read like academic papers (incredible really when given the subject matter).

Also, don’t do the courses, at around a grand a pop and the majority of trainers clueless you will get totally rinsed of your money. Again, if your outcome is more success with women, take that money and go on a good boot camp, not a general NLP course.

Word :)

I am certain you'll be glad you did.

Sync, I really like O'Connor's book, but Double O doesn't, and I understand why. That being said, I don't think it's the right book for a complete beginner. I think Unlimited Power is better for someone with no knowledge whatsoever of NLP.

There are a lot of things people on here don't know about Ross Jeffries. One thing I will tell you is, he is a very intelligent, very well-learned man. He learned NLP from Kenrick Cleveland, who you may or may not know, is all about covert persuasion and makes no excuses for it much like I make no excuses for myself as a man.

I am of the philosophy of reading anything you can get your hands on and allow your abilities to analyze to decide what benefits you and what doesn't. That being said, I am very cautious what I recommend to noobs because some things, although very good, can do more harm than good to a noob who is still lacking a foundation in the principles. The original Trance-formations is an example. A brilliant book for someone with a background in hypnosis. It does absolutely nothing for a noob PUA, however.

Got that, also Josh Seymour and also Hypnotica's stuff. Atcually been watching Hypnoticas Inner game, and I have found it to be brilliant, not just for seduction, but for everything.

It may not be "fun" but it certainly good and extremely helpful.

<shrug> You’re obviously entitled to your opinion :)

Personally, I think Unlimited Power is comparatively dated and written in a meandering, text heavy, conversational style that works well to accommodate Robbins’ irritating motivational Americanisms.

However, Joseph O’ Connor – Workbook is simple and to the point. Its format and structure is done with the visual and auditory learning styles in mind and has kino exercises throughout. This allows the learner to dip in out without losing track of “the story” inherent to the conversational style. However, “one thing that I will tell you” when “that being said” is your style appears to be auditory, so I can understand how this approach might ring true for you. Give the workbook a try and it might tell you things that previously you hadn’t heard phrased that way. :D

I would be surprised if Ross Jeffries was anything less than intelligent considering the position he has created for himself. However, Ross has admitted to treating his students like shit in the past and has had a redemptive experience regarding this in his own personal development through exercises that he describes have, “opened his heart,” which have a had a profound impact on the way he teaches. As I’ve previously mentioned, what really counts are your intentions for the other person. Is the intellect lead by itself or by the heart? I can covertly gift someone with a new understanding or state that can enrich their life and be the silent hero or overtly strip them of a cherished belief if it means getting what I want. Your intentions will ultimately reveal who you are.

I too am of the philosophy that forming an opinion should be based on as much relevant information as possible. Trance-formations is indeed a brilliant book and one of my favourites (I often loose my place cause I’m trancing out so damn hard) but it certainly wouldn’t harm the noob. As long it’s not total new age bullshit, I think if any harm comes to the noob it’s more about a lack of judgment than the information assimilated, and this, I believe, can only be remedied by more information and experience. My original point of centring on PUA focussed material is simply to save the aspiring PUA time if his outcome is more success with women. If his outcome is a comprehensive understanding of NLP then I’d say read it all, even the bullshit for contrast, just as long as you’re getting laid already. :)

OOPS!! Well that will teach me to read the posts properly I just assumed that it was about PUA well it is another acronym after all....lol

Actually dare I confess this but I am a licensed NLP trainer, have been apprenticed directly with the big guy himself (RB) both in the UK and the US and can train people with his endorsement.

NLP Books I would recommend as a starter are:

Users Manual for the Brain Vol 1 - Bodenhamer, Hall

NLP: The New Technology of Achievement - Andreas, Faulkner

Teach Yourself NLP - Bavister, Vickers

I personally do not like this book, it may be that I find O'Connor dry as a writer and trainer, however it is a well structured book and worth ignoring me and reading it anyway:

NLP Workbook - O'Connor

Once you got the basics then I would move onto Bandlers and Grinders work The Structure of Magic Vol 1 & 2 and also the Milton Erickson Books Vol 1 & 2 as well. Also Sleight of Mouth by Dilts and Mind Lines by bodenhamer and Hall

This was a really personal moment for me because along with bear, I was one of the students he treated like shit although Orion and Riker got the worst of it because they stepped into Ross' limelight. The smartest thing that I did was stay in the shadows.

Actually Ross' redemptive experience happened when a few of us called him on his own bullshit.

Later I finally got him to read the Middle Piller and The Garden of Pomegranets by Israel Regardie and after he really worked the exercises in the books he had a bit of a revelation and got all remorseful. Which is a common experience of people who practice Kabbalistic meditations it opens you up to all sorts of shit.... Good Shit but still difficult to take sometimes.

OO

This was a really personal moment for me because along with bear, I was one of the students he treated like shit although Orion and Riker got the worst of it because they stepped into Ross' limelight. The smartest thing that I did was stay in the shadows.

Actually Ross' redemptive experience happened when a few of us called him on his own bullshit.

Later I finally got him to read the Middle Piller and The Garden of Pomegranets by Israel Regardie and after he really worked the exercises in the books he had a bit of a revelation and got all remorseful. Which is a common experience of people who practice Kabbalistic meditations it opens you up to all sorts of shit.... Good Shit but still difficult to take sometimes.

OO

You are obvioulsy still harboring resentment toward Americans for defeating your precious empire 230 years ago. This is obvious from the mood of your post. I'll have you know that neither I nor my family were responsible for that. My anscestors were enslaved in the Russian Empire at the time. So do not include me in your anti-American rhetoric.

You're right, O'Connor is the best because he's English and we all know the English are the best. Robbins book is out of touch with modern society, you're right. Thank god the basics of NLP are no longer relevant. Hey, what do you think of Bandler having replaced some of the earlier techniques with new, more effective ones? Out of date, perhaps?

I won't comment on the Ross thing. Double O already did and he has intimate knowledge, as do I, which we prefer to keep to ourselves.

I remember one time we were partying hard in Chicago and Double O had rented a car. So, I'm at McDonald's ordering food at the counter. I can see through the drive through window and he pulls up to receive his order. The entire time a woman is sucking his dick and the attendent must not have noticed cuz she's asking him about his accent, how he likes America, blah, blah, blah. The funniest was she asked him about the differences between the U.S. and U.K. and he says, "Well, you know, we drive on the other side of the road." She goes, "Really!" Like the typical, dumb American (In Sync's opinion, which he's entitled to). He responds, "Yeah, our steering wheels are even on the other side of the car. I'm not used to getting road head on the left side of the car" and then he speeds off. Nobody in the restaraunt could possibly understand why I was lying in a puddle of my own piss in the fetal position laughing so hard I had tears streaming down my face.

My obvious resentment?...

We interrupt this delusion for a brief news flash.

The motivational Americanisms that I refer to are an American cultural phenomenon predicated on a predominantly Towards pleasure motivational meta program (you know, in NLP…). The British culture is mainly Away from pain and, as many other researchers have pointed out before me (just look at the difference in British and American sitcoms), each style irritates the other.

So, really, the speed in which you manage to personalise what I say, assume it’s true, put words in my mouth (sweeping generalisations like all Americans are dumb) and then base your post around it, really reflects on your own projected insecurities.

I have good friends that are American, Bandler is American, NLP is an American discovery. I couldn’t give a fuck about the British Empire, it's traditionalist bullshit conditioned in to people to get them to draw some faux sense of national identity to maintain archaic methods of government so we don’t wise up and get a Democratic Republic with a Constitution and a Bill of Rights….like America.

People are people, isn’t that the point of NLP?

Think before you point next time please.


Double O – I’ve heard Anton Wilson mention good things about Middle Pillar when he was alive, I’ll see if I can get a copy at some point. Cheers for info.

We now return to our original programming.

Me thinks polarity responder. :bukkake:

"2 + 2 = 5"

"No it doesn't"

"Polarity Responder!"

:D

Deviating from our original programming for a second..

Robert Anton Wilson is like my Idol. I Got into him through Bandler and since then I've never looked back, He really opened my eyes to alot of things. I was really quite upset when he died.

Definitely, I'm a big fan of RAW myself. Fascinating guy and a top class orator, held you with his presence.

"Who is the master who makes the grass green?"

You are ;)

If you guys like RAW then I would also check out Christopher Hyatt and S Jason Black.

The late Chris Hyatt (what is it with these guys dying all the time) was a good friend of Israel Regardie, there are mixed reviews of his books but I completely love The Psychopaths Bible and Energising Hypnosis. I think that anything that assists you to expand your mind in new directions is a good thing. Keeps the thought Police away...

OH and yes I would include all of these in my NLP training......

Fixed Your Post

Hey Youtube "Derren Brown NLP".. pay close attention to his hand movements and when he touches the subject on the right and left shoulder as an "Anchor".. this doesnt apply to sarging, or PUA technique.. but will give you a visaul of how NLP is done... really all you need to do is switch the verbaitim..

I have full on geek level crush on Derren Brown as well. I have all his DVDs his books and online material. If I could steal his brain I would.

I hate to get off topic here, but Derren Brown's uses a lot less NLP/hypnosis than you would expect. He is a mentalist and his techniques are pure mentalism. Check out the fourm "the magic cafe." They discuss this at length in many, many threads. He is a master at misdirection, do not forget that. Having said that, my best friend in all of the Commonwealth gave me "Tricks of the Mind" as a Christmas present. I would suggest reading it.

I agree. I already knew he was gay when I read "Tricks" but I thought the whole time I was reading it, this man would be one of the greats in Pick Up if he were straight.

Pick your dad's brain and share some secrets with us then, mate. Magic is DHV.

I just want to buy nice stuff with paper. I know how to do it with hypnosis, but I am curious how the mentalist does it.

After all these years this stuff just comes pouring out from me and I don't even notice anymore because it has become second nature.....;)

From what the ladies tell me, that's not the only stuff pouring out of you.

No, no, no, no, no....purely hetero here.

Really!!?

I can honestly say I have never once desired to stick my dick into a man's hairy ass.