Race and DHV
 

Can of worms...here we come...

I'm olive skinned (think David Blaine coloured). I have this ability to kinda look like I'm from a whole load of different places. Growing up I had a bunch of hang ups about it. And I used to resent the way in which girls would want to know where my parents were from so they could slot me into some kinda of 'social/cultural box' accordingly.

Since then I've dated/bedded Girls that were among other things:

English/Spainish/French/Norwegian/German/Black English/ Brazil/Irish/American/Belgian/Indian/Russian/Chinese/Greek/Mixed race.

I tend to go down better with foreign girls in London.

Though my significant exs have been English (x2) and a Beligian. Oh and I tend to prefer blondes.

I started getting into the habit of asking the girl I'm speaking to where she thought I looked like I am from ethnically(early into a pick up). And over the years I've noticed some interesting patterns...

And this is gonna be highly controversial, but imo some 'guesses' seem to consistently turn out to be IOIs, while others consistently seem to be a sign that the girl I'm speaking to isn't attracted/interested in me.

IOI countries:
-Greek/Cyp
-Spainish
-Italian
-Turkey
-South/Latin America

I think men from these countries/races must tap into certain seduction/romance/sexual archtypes? And usually if a girl guesses I'm from one of these it usually means she's sees my 'exotic' appearance entirely in a posetive light.

Neutral countries:
-Arab
-Mid East

This seems to cut both ways. I think girls that guess I'm arab as a posetive seem to always be making assumptions about my material wealth/'security based' attraction value as a result of my ethnic appearance (and my designer labels or whatever). When it's a negative I figure it has something to do with the assumption that I'm muslim/misgynisitic/sexually repressed/airport bombing demcrocy hater or whatever other negative anti-arab stereotypes some people out there ascribe to? :pound:

Indicators of disinterest:
-Indian
-Pakistan
-Algeria

At the risk of offending anyone, in my experience if a (non asian) girl guesses that I'm indian or Pakistan it's almost always (99% of cases) proved to be a sign that she's not interested in me sexually. I don't know why, but you asian guys seem have a really bad rep with non-asian women atleast in london?

Again this is just a pattern I've noticed no offence intended.

And before anyone mentions 'limiting beliefs' I don't believe the issue of race is one of these. But rather that it's a double edged sword which can create instant higher or lower value. Some girls simply don't/won't even consider men of a different race (and in the extreme cases no amount of game will ever reverse that).

And further more I don't think said girls are nessarily 'racist'. In fact I've dated and slept with the occasional 'reverse racist'...An white english ex of mine used to openly say stuff like 'white men aren't attractive. Not to me.'

So it's all very complicated. It's not that black and white (pardon the awful pun). I think we all have a predispostions to PRE JUDGE all sorts of different people both posetively and negatively as a result of a load of external superfical factors (one of which is race)....

I don't want to offend anyone with this post, but rather to open up a discussion on how you guys feel that ethnicity/race can influence one's attraction value both posetively and negatively, (as I certainly think in my case over the years this has certainly cut both ways for me).

This post is entirely based on assumptions drawn from my own PERSONAL experiences (primarly in London). I'm just wondering what you guys might make of them?

And what experiences you guys have had either as a guy from an exotic/ethnic minority or as a white english bloke overseas or anything else inbetween...

Cheers in advance.

I am personally a fan of the exotic I look very pale skinned with light brown hair and the blondes don't really do it for me due to genetics. different DNA = attractive.
I think it's to do with upbringing cos I've always been brought up to think no race is better than another but some guys I know wouldn't shag a black or Asian girl.
you have an advantage really because the one you miss out on are gonna be idiots anyway and all the others will be drawn to you.

Well, i think that Bangladesh ethnicity people have a big disadvantage in their game :P

Black guys seem to be able to achieve a muscle bulk that white guys just can't seem to get without steds. Kinda off topic but fuck it

That's possibly down to the slave trade.. Selective breeding and the hell the race was put through could have theoretically created a stronger/more athletic gene pool.

That's not to say that there aren't some huge black fatties though.

This is however just an assumption, I've never done reading on it, it's something I've heard others mention before though.

It doesnt matter what you look like! It only matters how you carry yourself. That is it. If ur socially adjusted and mentally strong u r in, if nervous and odd you r out. Simples.

In an ideal world this would be true. But I don't think any amount of 'carry myself right' or 'social or mental adjustment' could have gotten me 'in' with the girl that once told me (after an innocent indirect opener) to 'fuck off' because she 'doesn't do pakis'

That's a blow out, from a racist. Made doubly annoying as I'm not in anyway shape or form from pakistan.:pound:

Obviously I chalked that silly bint up as a racist and moved on. But I think this issue is a bit more complex than that. And it's NOT a state of mind/limiting belief thing. Afterall it's not nessarily 'racist' to have a 'preference' and very often race is a factor in that preference for some girls/guys (and it can cut both ways).

Example:
I went on holiday with a bunch of mates. One of whom is black, tall, sporty and proper stacked. There was this group of older white english women on the beach and staying in the place opposite...and they were literally salivating over him the whole time. We called them 'the fan club' and he literally could have banged all of them. I have never see sexual interest this telegraphed from a group of women in my life. It honestly boarder on sexual harrassment...But he's a bit of saint and outrageously picky so he didn't take any of em up. He was just embarssed and kinda annoyed. And the rest of us found the whole thing hillarious and kept telling him to just pick one of them get it over and done with...

They weren't even esp bad looking, they were just like in their 40s/50s. But he was having none of it. The joker. :pound:

Why do you assume that all DISCUSSION topics must always be resolved/resolvable? And that if they can't be 'resolved' then simply sharing opinions and experiences on them isn't inherently of value/interest in and of itself?

If you want things you can 'resolve' go do a Sudoku, isn't this supposed to be a DISCUSSION forum afterall? Just sayin. ;)

Limiting beliefs joker, if u get the racial brush off its becaus you went in wrong. You not only have to go in with total confidence but you have to show cultural calibration and shared commonalities in ur demeanor. EXAMPLE, you go up to some girls and they say 'fuck off she only does white guys' they are probably assuming u barely speak english, u are culturally alien to them, ur mindset does not correlate with theirs. If you turned out to be born and bread American, 'ay I'm from a wealthy family in New York, born there dude' do you think they would give u the brush off. I bet they'd suddenly be more interested because to them ur now a completely different guy to what they had assumed. You have not only a cultural match but u are offering high value bcaus America is kind of idolised in our culture. Hence its not ur appearance, its attraction and what you offer that is the only f-ing important thing. (I'm in no way saying u need to become an american) My mate Sam is Indian and he pulled the other week. This girls friends leaned in to me and said 'its weird, she's usually really racist' But becaus he had built so much attraction through being fun, dominant and plowing (strong frame, taking what he wanted) SHE WAS ALL OVER HIM. He was carrying her around the bar, pinning her on walls and making out etc. ITS ALL IN YOUR MIND. Avatar is irrelevant.

Look i differ with some of this RSD shit in a couple of ways -- i can see the glory message and reality it is trying to paint and agree with it-- but there are other factors out in the real world.

I typed a load of stuff decided not to post it-- so i`ll have another stab at it.

White Guys (me, master race and all that)
Race has No issue for me with girls--
White Girls -- fuck white guys, take them home to meet parents for LTRs - no social stigmatisms
Black Girls -- in my experience i get black girls for fun -- often they have multiple degrees work really really hard because they have a limited reality that they are not as good as white girls -- they always love fucking and having LTRs with white guys

Asian/indian girls -- seem to like white guys too but with some issues-- Pakistani Girls often like to fuck white guys BUT wont LTR them as family disaproves

Chinese girls -- ive never ever managed (and ive tried a lot) to bone chinese girls -- as a culture they tend to be heavily racist and promote same race LTRs and sex

Eastern Europeans - love white guys for sex and LTRs -- i suck Rusksi/poles etc in for fun
Russians tend to be quite anti anything other than white-- but poles etc dont mind what race you are

Black Guys - sexually white girls love them-- there is a stigma that they all have huge cocks (not always the case) and their family would 'disaprove' of bringing a black guy home which makes LTRs a no no but sex even more of a go

Asian Guys - Sorry but its a fact loads of white girls will not go near Asian guys


There are just some factors in life that WILL nuke your chances with a girl if thats how she is conditioned and there is a scale-- for instance if you are a god of a pua then you can plough through a lot of it but its an uphill struggle.

For instance, i`ll fuck a girl with a kid and date her for a while but NO MATTER what- i will NOT have a long term relationship with her--i WILL not take on anyone elses child

I WILL NOT have an LTR and children with a black woman but i enjoy having sex with them and dating.

am i racist yes i am-- its not a hate racism its just my personal choice for what i want and my future

now all this is GENERAL-- dont take it as gospel its just a guide to the social conditioning on our society from my perspective and experience.
there are gazillions of exceptions to this all around you but you will encounter this

You can say its a limiting beleif all you like but ive seen it as a limiting FACT

Touchy topic, but I'm glad someone brought it up. I actually had this discussion with my old housemate who was half black pua and he actually totally agreed that women are more responsive to him just because of it. Concluded it's positive social conditioning with media and black music like rnb and hip hop having a very alpha image.

'Asian Guys - Sorry but its a fact loads of white girls will not go near Asian guys' - i kind of agree here, but go to south east asia and the guys that get most laid with hot swedish and other european women are the beach hut workers and weed dealers in tourist areas. But then again when travelling abroad, people's social conditioning and sense of reality tends to get distorted.

In Thailand the majority of actors on tv and commercials are half european, it's just what is considered attractive over there.

Put it this way, imagine Al Pacino in the body of a disfigured old midget. End of the day he's still Al Pacino. Do you seriously think he wouldnt be the coolest mofo and get loads of women? He's not that good looking now, I bet he gets and has gotten a lot of attraction.

What's that got to do with anything? Al Pacino is famous. Fame is a unique type of DHV on that allows you to DHV to people you've not even met in person.

How much 'game' would Al Pacino need to get laid at all ever, IF he was just a humble carpet fitter from Dagenham? :hihi:

Race is one of the factors that effects/influences perceptions of social value. And it cuts both ways. This isn't a limiting belief....it's is as Refl3x says...a limiting fact. (accept it's not nessarily always 'limiting' imo- since it can cuts both ways - and might get you 'in' as often as it might get put you 'out'- depending on the girl in question).

It's no more a limiting factor than height, weight, age or anything else. I would go as far to say that social class is a bigger factor than race.

Here's some more interesting things I've noticed from among my circle of friends...

White guy mates with 'some' game tend to want to seek out and date/bed increasingly more exotic variety of women. They seem to reach a point where they get bored of white middle class averagly attractive birds and decide to branch out and 'test' their ever improving game on girls increasingly outside their own racial/cultural bracket.

The asian (indian) bloke I know with the most game, (and I mean a fuck ton of the stuff), doesn't go anywhere near asian/indian girls. I don't know why. Also my black mate that's handsome, loaded and stacked doesn't date black girls.

Also another mate of mine who is half white/european half singaporian and pretty good looking (in a girlie/anime sort of way), was a bit of an aquired taste out on the pull in the uk and certainly no cad...but in Japan he literally models for a bunch of different cloting companies and is considered by Japanese birds to be be sooo ridiculously good looking that they literally throw themselves at him- and he pulls stunners with zero effort on his part. Whatever he's got goes down well in that part of the world.

p.s Yes I've checked and thank fuck he's alright despite the shit going on there at the mo.

............

I too am glad someone did a thread on this, and I'm even gladder that we've been able to have a civil discussion on this for 2 pages without anyone posting anything offensive or getting offended. Before the thread turns to shit I'll put in my two cents.

Personally I think race, like any kind of looks, only matters initially in the approach. I don't agree with the cliche that first impressions last, on the contrary I think people get over first impressions very quickly. Someone of a race thats viewed unfavourably by the target might have a harder time, or even a much harder time, approaching the girl. But if he approaches indirectly and she likes his personality I don't think it'll matter after then. Women are generally a lot less about the visual.

Interesting that two people brought up indian guys and that white girls wont go out with them. I think this is down to culture more than attraction. I think girls assume someone of indian/pakistani descent will treat women like shit and either expect her to convert religions or have an arranged marriage lined up. One of my colleagues is of Indian descent but interestingly he is a catholic and even has a portuguese name, he got so sick of people assuming he was muslim that he now wears a cross pendant to show people (girls in particular) that he is not culturally different.

Thanks so much for bringing this topic up and for having a civil discussion about it.

I would like to know more about girls who do not date Indian/Asians.

(I am one myself and have NEVER had sex with an Indian or black woman, but that is my personal preference.)

Can someone please fill me in on this, so there are girls out there who would just not sleep with an asian/indian? What are their reasons?

If this is the case then how can one spot these girls so that I do waste any time on them.

I must also admit that I also have difficulty with English women. I live in London and the majority of my successes have been with foreign girls. I do nto know what I am doing wrong but I jus tfind that english girls are just so much hard work and have a real up their own backsides, atttitude about them.

I am not say that I have never had an english girl, I have but they are relativly few in comparison with my foreigh successes.

I have reasonable skill level in game but not great. I would say that on a scale of 1-10 I am about 3.5-6.5. Sometimes I know exactly what I am doing but at other times I just bomb out, but that is another story.

Al Pacino would still be th fucking man if he were an asian carpet fitter from dagenham, thats the whole f-ing point. Its about who he is and how he behaves that makes him a strong leading male.

....................

Chinese girls are always afraid of me -- i dont think im their type, its an uphill struggle from a race point of view but also im a skin headed thug -- which i really dont think they go for.

When i was over in Ukraine in Kiev in the capital city for 7 days...i saw all of 1 black person!!!
I asked the girl i was seeing why there arent any, she was heavily anti blacks/asians/arabs etc and gave me the impression that was the accepted view.

I also asked her why everyone was looking at me, she said everyone thinks im in the Russian Mafia because ive got muscles, tattoos and a skinhead

I`ll say this Phenominally Beutiful Women, totally makes the uk look like a genetic shit heap from the female point.

She came to stay with me in the Uk for a few weeks- she hated Bradford with all the asians, kept asking me why everyone was looking at her eve the women -- i was like omg its because you are fucking beutiful without even any makeup on.

So are the Russians racist? That explains A LOT.

I have had a lot of difficulty with women Russians, especially the ones from Moscow. They have this real attitude about themselves. I find it almost impossible to get beyond even a 1st date with them, if that. I have reached the stage now that if I find they are Russian, I just move on.

To be fair I think if you're getting blown out after/during a first date, it's not gonna have anything to do with your race/appearance by that point.

Hey joker,

Thanks for your comment.

I am clearly not doing something right with the Russians. I very rarely even get to a 1st date.

MY game with them must really suck because I can always sense this attitude from them that I do not get from many other nationalities. It is almost as though they have their bitch shield up and all this is purely during day game.

The one time I was was doing night game and Russians were involved, I was acting as a wing man and was really being shat upon... They were not even particularly good looking. I would say that they were 5/6 at best.

I get this feeling from a lot of Russians that they think they are 10/11 and who the fuck am I to even be approaching them.

BTW, I no longer suffer from AA, I have not for many many years now so that is not the issue here.

I think that AFAIK I will not and do not need to waste time with Russians.

I did not know about the Ukrainians attitude either, although I did have a Uraininian several years ago.

this thread is disturburbing.

people talking about "Facts", what a joke. not cool and totally not in keeping with the spirit of self betterment and overcoming social conditioning. were all racist in some way, but that doesn't make it acceptable, its a weakness. so if some girls are overtly racist then there just stupid dicks...simple as

What about when it's not overt? What about when it's subtle? Just that general sense of what Refl3x calls an 'uphill struggle' in certain instances?

IMO there is nothing wrong/disturbing about a bunch of mates discussing this kinda stuff and plenty wrong with pretending it doesn't exist/make a difference.

That's my 2cents.