Ok so you have opened!! Now what??
 

I seem to have come across a sticking point. For a long time i was using alcohol to open and chat to girls but now i have decided that im not going to drink as much anymore.

I have no problems with opening - I never have but now im gettting all nervous these days because of lack of material I suppose.

For example I open a girl with one of the fancy openers we all know. I have their attention and she is waiting for the next topic of convo to come up but nothing - I dry up and then comes the uncomfortable silence.

Help me out guys - whats the next step?

Read books... and basically it has been said somewhere that - SILENCE IS NOT YOUR ENEMY... you have to use it for ur advantage, by mastering feelings and mb even some kino/k-close in the moment when it starts :) Hope it helps...


Cheers


LL

It's time to start facing up to the fact all the lines and pre-planned material isn't you. You need to start learning to trust yourself and that you are worthy of normal converations with girls. The problem with the 'material' is it still has you believing that you are not interesting enough for hot girls... when in fact most people are, they just need to believe it!

Have a listen to Natural Tim and The Blueprint. These helped me a lot in understanding that it isn't that complicated.

I agree with the comments above but you have to have something ready before you open! Especially if you are just starting. Something like:

"Hi, have you seen that 7ft woman with a mohawk in here tonight?
"No"
"Ok she must have hit her head and left"

She may laugh but either way you're in.

Then ask her for advice on something ridiculous. Like your best friend is thinking of dating a woman taller than him or a bisexual woman and is a bisexual woman twice as likely to cheat than a straight one. She will respond then you can get going. Then notice something about her and tease her a little, something like "My nan has hair like yours, it's ok though. She's quite hot"

As time goes on you will feel more comfortable and relax then it will come naturally, but never go in dry.

Lines do work if you deliver them properly. Nothing wrong with having something prepared, until you are more experienced.

You can never run out of anything to say, just as you can never run out of thoughts to think.

Its more that your too scared to say most of what you think because your afraid it will go down badly.

Once you stop worrying about how other people will perceive you and think more about how you can get the most fun out of what your doing the better you'll find your interactions go.

Maybe so, but if you are a beginner I would advise it. There are different ways to approach it, it's a matter of finding what works for you.

He's not asking for beginner's advice though. He has seen the flaws of pickup material and routines and now wants to move on.

There is no method better than trusting yourself to take the right course of action. We all have the instinct in us, we just need to let it happen.

all very very helpful advice.

I think this

If you feel more comfortable going down the routines route, then the answer is simple - learn more stuff. If you are saying your problem is running out of routines, then all you have to do is learn more of them and stack = problem solved. And yes....you do have to study your material over and over unless you have a fantastic memory.

Or if you want to go the natural route, do as the others suggest.

What a boring way to spend you time, and a girl's (who's heard the same line from 5 other PUAs that evening).

Lol I sense an argument of natural vs routine brewing, but I'm not gonna bite :D

Yes it can be boring to memorise stuff, but some of it works.

And your comment about it boring the girls...in some cases it will, in some cases it won't. Probably just like the natural approach, sometimes it hits, sometimes it won't. Not everything is so black & white dude!

One guru even points out that good naturals use the same 'soundbites' again and again (to a degree). So that's a form of stacking, just in more natural flow of things.

Hey dude, I don't see natural as a 'method' so this isn't a debate I'm willing to have either.

When you say 'works', you mean you have something to say to the girl? Like Darood said - 'You can never run out of anything to say, just as you can never run out of thoughts to think.' It's essentially impossible!

Hey, if guys say stuff they enjoy then that's the coolest thing in the world, natural or planned, story or joke. However if what you're saying is meaningless to you, then you're wasting your's and the girl's time. It's basically just bullshit. Do you really want to be a bullshitter?!

Either way you're in because.. guess what? You're talking to her! Its got nothing to do with what you said. A nice girl will most of the time respond and have a conversation with a nice looking confident guy.

I'm not enveloped into PU properly yet but going down the canned/routine-based route isn't for me. Some jokes, games, ideas, topics of conversation and lines I hear on the forums really interest me as I find them entertaining. However, I disagree with basing a large portion of your interaction on canned material because some of the crap is boring and wierd as fuck. Have more faith that you're better than the halfassed bullshit which some "master puas" put out. I'm not trying to discredit or disregard any methods (I respect a lot of them), but when you have to ask the question on what to say next after opening a girl, something should be addressed.

If you're running out of things to say, ask her questions, talk about yourself, talk about hobbies, talk about anything! For example, I watch this japanese anime/cartoon called Monster. I guarantee if a nerdy guy spoke to a girl about it, she'd lost interest. However everytime I've mentioned it, people (ranging from hot girls to medical school interview examiners) have been "hooked"... why? Because I'm genuinely enthusiastic and interested in it. I have the upmost confidence in discussing it with anyone because I honestly think its amazing. That kind of passion and enthusiasm can't come through routines.

Canned opener or not, i reckon there has to be an element of improv and vibing in there or it will come off a bit forced, which is the last thing you want. Feed off their reactions to your opener a bit, theyll respond to a decent opener and if you put your mind to it there's an interesting response to pretty much anything they say that can keep a conversation going (except if they give 1 word answers maybe). It's almost like doing a mind map in a conversation, everything connects to something you can bring up.
Im not exactly an expert but thats the way i keep conversations moving in general interactions as well as pickups and it seems to work for me.
It always comes off well as long as you keep cool and just try and have fun above all else, its the natural way conversations work really. Canned responses are nice as a safety net but like aofelix said, theres no substitute for enthusiasm :)

Agreed that if the canned stuff you have is meaningless to you then it will not come off right. 99% of the canned stuff I have (and it's not a whole load tbh!) is definitely self-amusing, else I wouldn't say it / do it.

Also totally agree about canned stuff being a 'safety net'. Certainly at the stage I'm at it helps to have a few little things if you feel you're not getting attraction.

Anyway, addressing the original post, the 'Magic Bullets' ebook has a pretty good section on transitioning from your opener to other threads of conversation + it doesn't have to be canned.

Wicked, i use to have the same problem, you could have something else scripted to say after the opener, but scripted will only get you so far.

A good opener and a good transition, can get you into a social hook point, once you have that,you can get to no her, but just don't be boring or your lose her.

A good second thing to say, is guessing something about her, the more spontaneous you are about it,the more natural it will seem.


Violence,

Zone

Be Fake

same story
 

Hello,

Funnily enough I was going to open a post tonight on a similar thing...some ideas would be good.

I was out sarging with Captain Freedom and another pua (not on the forum) in our small town last night.

So far this was our best night so far, in short, in the last 3 months, myself and the 2 other guys have managed to get to a level where we can more or less open any set, (so long as its about 5 and under) we can stay "in set" for about 10 minutes.

We also work very well as a 3 man wing team, (and we are all starting to do things sub consciously without even thinking about it), we are helping each other in set greatly.

I think last night we all opened at least 6 sets each whereas 3 months ago it would of been 2 or 3...The great thing is we have more or less stopped worrying about state and AA, we are just doing it, the AA is still there, but no so much as it was.

This has helped by all of us going natural and also, we have one back up opener which Freedom came up with, and it opens nice about 80% of the time.

Now.. this is where it stops, and where I need to learn where to take it from here,

So to clarify, we can open, no problems, we can keep in set for a while say 5-10 mins,but then we start to loose them, and dont number close, kiss close, escalate or iscolate..

I came home last night, not as frustrated that I didnt do enough approaches, that isnt the problem I can approach no problems, It the after approaching and staying in set and from then on.

If any of the experienced guys can lend their thoughts be amazing, or even better still any of the experienced London guys want to wing one night in town I reckon it could help..

Muchas thank you Tebbs

sounds like your not getting the attraction, would advise to study attraction/attraction switches from different sources, so you have a real good understanding.

In my experience, the best way to get attraction is to be direct, show interest, be confident about it, but don't be pushy,maintain comfort levels

keep yourself looking good, and you could have a few routines as back up.

I no theres a bit of a divide between Natural and Scripted on here, but there doesn't have to be.

Yep...

You could be right... from watching some more blueprint tonight on a very quiet nightshift (im now on part 15) I also think it could be down to the fact that Im expecting too much too quickly..

I only read the Game In May, so in theory have only been been into pickup for 3 months.

But also looking back on the 3 months to see where I have come from to where I am now, Im not just more very happy with my "women skills" but also life in general.

For example, I remember standing on a train platform 3 months ago, trying to remember to keep my hands out of my pockets and, remembering to look people in the eyes. Id not done approaches, and was trying to remember to use my hands more when I was speaking to people...I would also try to hide my "the game" book from people as I read it on the train !!!

So thinking of how far Ive advanced since then in the last 3 months is the most encouraging part, and even since my boss said to me last week " you like a changed man" (he doesnt know about pickup)

So i guess the moral of it is, keep trying, keep trying, keep trying and I will become more better at it

It was over 12 months before i started getting results, sounds like you have already made good progress.

Your get past those sticking points in time, yeah keep trying,but make sure you give yourself enough time to reflex over your approaches, so you can work out what went well, and not so well.

For me i felt approaching 4 - 5 times a night was enough, then i would reflex over them.

Somthing i found very helpful was watching the pick up artist series/keys to the vip, pausing them at certain parts, understanding why somthing worked or didnt, and adding my own input.

Just b u

Be your best u.

Can i ask EdHyde, what success you have, that gives u the right to interrupt.

I recently slept with a stripper,ex pole dancer, currently seeing a young attractive intelligent women, that i met while out on my own, i approached a 5 set of young attractive women to make this happen.

Can you justify your comment.

This is an open forum. Dont think he was interrupting. Anyway, success is relative. E.g. I might not like to sleep with an ex-pole dancer, etc.

Maybe i was alittle bit harsh.

A little? :p