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Reaching Mastery - MM -
31-08-2009, 12:14 PM
Hey folks,
From a guy called Uncle B. Makes sense to me. Anthony --- It also helps me to write my thoughts down and peoples responses help expand my mind and help me see what I may be missing. So please, comments are very welcome. I love reading the direct vs indirect, Mystery Method vs everyone else debates. I think one thing that people are missing is the context of which method is being used and what is the social situation. I'm going to talk about MM as a tool for a specific social situation. I got 99 problems but a bitch aint one. Maybe i'm in a unique position to see this in a different light because I'm not coming at this from the "get more women" position. I've found the seduction community, the "game" etc from a desire to master social dynamics, not get laid. So when looking at MM, direct, indirect, etc it all has to be taken into context. Mystery Method is a tool invented for a specific social situation. If you read what Mystery originally said, it was about getting 9s and 10s. But wait... where are 9s and 10s? As Mystery said over and over again hot women are often NOT found alone. So, MM was created to get hot women who are in groups (3 or more). Evidence in his books are his direct approach (or neutral) for singles or 2sets. MM has however been sexed up and commercialised so it can have applications for helping Newbies get over approach anxiety and other social defects. Hence why Iceman (I think) say's its for Newbies first then Intermediates drop it. Why do Intermediates drop it? Cos to simply get women you dont need it. Once you get to a decent level and your not a complete AFC, there are many easier methods for getting laid consistently and there is a lot of disconnect from MM from people who feel its not natural. Now here's the "MATRIX" as its been referred to. Social context. 9s and 10s in groups (people in groups generally), are in a cloud of socialisation. All MM allows you to do is to systematically deconstruct the social dynamic of a group to gain access to the hot girl there. Think of the following group. 5 set. 3 hot runway models, and 2 very good looking alpha males. (The alpha males are fucking the 3 models btw) Now approach... Anyone read that and feel a tightening in their chest? Some of you did. Some because you're scared shitless others cos you're relishing the coming challenge. I know many many naturals, and they would flounder in a situation like that. Not because they don't have game, but because they don't have the skills to deal with the context. Put them with the hotties one on one...game over. A skilled Venusian Artist, a MM gamer, will effectively be able to disarm all those obstacles making friends of the high value alpha males in the process. Why? They see the social matrix. They understand the dance that must be done in order to talk to the people behind the social masks. The skilled MM pua is a social puppeteer, pulling strings of the individuals they're interacting with. This is not manipulation. If you think that you don't get it. To the untrained eye (newbies) what does it look like? A bunch of routines one can use to make people laugh and remove anxiety. To the slightly trained eye (intermediate) what does it look like? A over the top way of getting laid through manipulation, when there are easier options round the corner (fallacy of abundance mentality). Not many people search for mastery of social dynamics. Because it requires much cognitive effort and determination. This is my path. If you were to map out the path from newbie to social master what would it look like? Newbie reads game Newbie learns MM and begins practicing Newbie starts getting #closes Newbie starts getting k-closes and dates Newbie starts getting laid Newbie becomes comfortable with women and attracting them and is now intermediate level < Most people can go from Newbie to Intermediate very easily and quickly. The problem is going from Intermediate to Master > Intermediate internalises success with women and becomes confident. Confidence allows Intermediate to go direct and get results This is easier so Intermediate goes direct (people will tend to choose the option with least amount of cognitive effort i.e. path of least resistance) Intermediate has much success going direct and being natural Intermediate has much "quantity" due to abundance mentality Intermediate skips "quality" or sometimes difficult women, due to abundance mentality Intermediate starts to desire quality over quantity Intermediate starts to desire those sets which he can't get Intermediate hits sticking points < The path to mastery. When you're getting really good. You're performance will temporarily drop. Do you sit in your comfort zone and go back to sets you can close to keep your ego intact? Or do you grab your balls like a man and come out of your comfort zone? This is where it's more than being confident with women. This stage separates the men from the confident boys. This level requires DEEP INNER GAME > Intermediate goes back to MM or similar methods Intermediate starts running routines and learning again Intermediate starts having success with top "quality" women and busts through sticking points Intermediate sees the "Matrix" Intermediate sees quality over quantity Intermediate masters MM (or similar tool tailored to group dynamics) Intermediate adds MM tools to his data bank of direct game, indirect game, day game, night game, phone game etc. Intermediate masters all tools MASTERY This is just a crude example but hopefully it illustrates my point, and helps to make elegant what Iceman originally proposed in his post. MM isn't an overarching all powerful solution. It's one tool in the tool box. Seeing the Matrix is being able to use the correct tool in the correct situation to be able to have the desired effect in any social context. The reason why some people are missing this, is because they are looking at "game" through the filter of getting women. If that's your reality then MM is one tool in many for achieving that goal. For an intermediate gamer, it's actually a lengthy drawn out tool that doesn't help you get to your goals. That's fine. If women is your end game then that’s your prerogative. What few have proposed and what many don't get is that there is a bigger picture in the social domain. For unlocking social layers, MM is a very good tool. That's all it is...a tool, effective in certain situations. I consider myself a natural. There are many situations where I'd be like "Fuck MM" I can close this chic direct. And it works. But it won't always. I have had really good success with women, but I understand there are certain social situations where I falter. I've winged with KingOfHearts a few times and he's been teaching me how MM works. He keeps saying "dude, you're doing fine, you're doing fine, you're being hard on yourself" Why? He's a good teacher. He's not placating me. I just don't think i've expressed to him articulately what I'm trying to achieve. He's seen me game girls easily in one on one situations or in high end clubs, where I have insane social proof. That's easy for me. That's my background and my comfort zone. What KOH doesn't realise is that I see the ease at which he goes into a 3, 4 or 5 set of girls or girls and guys, and completely controls the interaction. I see that and i'm like, that is a skill I don't possess. He does that through his own personality AND MM skills. I could easily sit on my laurels and keep banging chics till i'm blue in the balls. But if I want to manage a group, or get a woman who's in a group, save waiting till she's on her own; I need to be able to control the group, the challenges, and all the obstacles of group dynamics. MM does this very well. Understand the context fellas. Learn all the skills and master any social situation. I've written this partly for my own benefit and any of those thinking like me. It helps to get thoughts down. Hopefully it helps clarify things for a few out there that don't see why MM or any method has its place. Some won't understand what i'm saying. Maybe, when you're on a different path you might remember this post and read it again. For those who get this, stay on the path to mastery and learn every tool, regardless of how mundane it seems, it may be useful in a social situation you have yet to encounter.     
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02-09-2009, 11:08 AM
A few points I noticed
One man's 10 is another mans 5 so claiming you only use it when approaching really hot women is subjective to you as a person. I think a skilled natural could succeed if they were in the same situation (3 hot runway models, and 2 very good looking alpha males) claiming they don't have the skills with no evidence or theory to back this up is a lazy argument. I'm not saying MM won't work there but other methods will too. Some people may find MM easier than others for cracking that situation so use it but to be a master I don't think you need to know MM or similar methods. Unless you are talking about the mastery to learn every technique out there not every situation but then I don't think anyone can actually achieve this because some will methods will conflict and other methods 'the mastery' will keep changing it's definition. "It is if he puts his balls between the strings, and strums himself to ecstasy!"
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kowalski (02-09-2009) | ||
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02-09-2009, 01:02 PM
Very curious take on things
I feel that starting in natural game has taken me further than if I would have started MM style. I got into this community when I bought the "art of approach" by Thundercat, one of Mystery's students. Attempting to use those canned openers seemed so unnatural and hence uncomfortable. With natural I can approach using whatever, get my internal state up etc. Being Natural has pushed me into sets I wouldn't have normally dared to approach back in February when I started. I'm getting makeouts with women I just met, which was FAR FAR out of my reality a few months ago. However- the scenario "3 HBs, 2 AMOGs, and both AMOGS are fucking the 2 HBs".......this is a FUCKING SKILL!! From what I have read MM deals really well with Group Dynamics. I say Keep progressing and push the boundarys. Natural is really good for the beginner, because it pushes him into sets and progresses him quickly with the "abundance mentality". He is then able to internalise concepts quickly, especially by constantly being out in the field. This develops "inner game" well. Once he is consistently pulling - hb7s, hb8s etc there is no harm in using deeper techniques to deal the the scenario mentioned here. Using more complicated techniques from the likes of Mystery/style, may suit these situations better. You're able to play the set like puppets and do what you want. Once I get more success, I may look at these deeper techniques. 
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02-09-2009, 10:24 PM
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Some guys get nervous opening big mixed sets, hence why we need the framework of MM or whatever...
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03-09-2009, 08:14 AM
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I find it strange how it says you need deep inner game to achieve mastery but then go back and do MM or similar techniques which are based around the idea that you have lower value than a woman. "It is if he puts his balls between the strings, and strums himself to ecstasy!"
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kowalski (03-09-2009) | ||
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(#7)
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03-09-2009, 09:52 AM
kowalski - we were both chatting about this the other night. We both agreed that MM is more effective than natural game.
In terms of actual end results (women), and in terms of consistency. Mystery talks about '5 for 5' - five sets, five closes. His game is that tight. Because it gives you a pretty standard and effective way of dealing with social situations. You use 'chick crack' like the cube - pretty effective stuff when delivered well. negatives: slightly disingenuous, may temper your ability to improvise when needed. Natural game depends on your state - if for whatever reason you have a shit day, then you are obviously not gonna do as well in set as a trained MM guy. Obviously though it helps develop more rounded skills. I have yet to see either a natural deal with the above situation. I have used natural game successfully in difficult mixed sets - but not as tough as the above scenario - but ironically what I was actually doing is MM to a certain extent - dealing with obstacles, being cool to the entire group etc. But then, in other occasions, the cool stuff just hasn't come out of my head (maybe even it wasn't in there that day), and sets have not gone as well. I have yet to see either a MM guy deal with the above situation. But I have yet to see a well-trained MM guy. I want get good in all scenarios of game. I hope just being natural is enough, but I'm not convinced of it yet. I suspect that MM is some good ammunition for me (to have in my pocket, interspersed with natural game). Thoughts welcome
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03-09-2009, 11:02 AM
You don't want to fuck twats!? You gay!
 "It is if he puts his balls between the strings, and strums himself to ecstasy!"
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03-09-2009, 12:06 PM
I understand this might be an emotive topic, but I honestly think there is some middle ground here.
I act in a slightly different way, a way that is natural to me. I don’t immediately dismiss girls for acting like twats. Maybe I have a higher tolerance level. I sometimes understand why they do it (even if it due to their own lack of social intelligence). I love turning these girls around, watching as your behaviour and coolness changes them. Having this mentality, even with men too, I’ve seen some really incredible sides to people that I wouldn’t have seen otherwise. Also, with this mentality I pretty much never get into fights or confrontations – it just doesn’t happen. We operate in different ways. Quote:
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03-09-2009, 12:21 PM
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I am LeGeNd...
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