Over 30 and never had girlfriend or sex - I need some advise
 

Dear all,

As you can see in the topic I'm 30 years old and never had a girlfriend or sex. I moved last year to a new city and I don't have many friends here. I have a successful job. Also in the past I don't have success with women. It's a bit complicated because I'm not so shy. I have often a date but I know this women's from Facebook etc. The most time it's the same I dated her one time and than she don't have time etc. Also sometimes I have date with women's date I know from daily life, there is it the same. I don't know how I can change it,maybe somebody can give me a advise. I friend from my hometown means, I must be more open and tell the women's what I want. I'm a normal guy, 168 cm tall, sporty figure and good clothing style. I think the most people think that I'm from Italy, because a lot of work colleges ask me, if I'm from Italy. (Brown eyes, dark brown hairs, good teeth and a very good style. Also I think it's not that way, that I'm just looking for models or something like that. I would say maybe 4/10 Hb. What you think is the problem, that I have often date but nothing more.
Cheers Paul

So, where are you from?


Peace,

kowalski

I'm from Germany

Cheers Paul

And you live in Germany or somewhere else?


Peace,

kowalski

Yes, but I had in the past a lot of dates with women's from different countries. So I prefer this English page

I'm going to assume that your primary goal here is just to have sex, not necessarily to get in a relationship or anything like that.

You mention you get dates via facebook. If you had to explain how A --> B --> C you would get laid doing this, what would it look like in your opinion?

Was asking because often being foreign, depending on the nations you are from and in, can either be an advantage or a disadvantage. If you are in your own country and are of that nation's standard ethnicity, then it's not a factor.

Was it very clear, to both parties, that these dates you have gone on were dates?
Have you been kissing these girls on your dates?


Peace,

kowalski

Hello,

I think for the online dates it was clear that this meetings are dates. But I only kissed one girl. With the offline dates maybe sometimes it was not so clear, because I meet for example one girl from work and I think it was not a real date. The date is very often the same, we talk, laughing etc. Also very often the women make plans for a new date or say, yes we must meet again etc. but normally after yhe first date the don't contact me again. Maybe you can tell me how I can make it for her clear that it's a date, How I can show real interest and what could I change (my behaviour) on this date(s) because as I said, normally it's always the same.

Stein asked a great question that you should also answer.


Peace,

kowalski

Maybe I understood the question wrong, because I think I answer already. But if you mean how I do it, it's very simple. I just wrote her a message on Facebook about a topic that I saw on her profile than I had a small conversation on FB with her and ask her for a real date. In real life, work for example. I also talk with the women a bit and ask her than for going out and her number.

I'll try to steelman what was asked by Stein and illustrate it with an example.

You've described what actually happened on these dates. Whereas Stein is asking what you think the pattern of actions and events would be if they successfully lead to sex.

First, he assumes that your primary goal is sex as opposed to a relationship. Is this assumption correct?
Second, he wants to know if the assumption is correct, what has been / is your plan to get from chatting on Facebook to having sex?

If I wanted to eat scotch eggs (which are not available readymade here), I'd need a plan on how to get from being sat in the kitchen with that desire and no ingredients to biting into a home cooked scotch egg.

"Well, last time I tried to make scotch eggs I went to a shoe shop and they didn't have any eggs or sausage meat and then I went and got drunk instead" that's a description of how I failed to make scotch eggs not a plan on how to make them.

"Go to a shoe shop. Ask for eggs and sausage meat. Buy them. Take them home. Seperate the sausage meat into balls..." that is the first part of a plan on how to make scotch eggs.

And with that plan laid out, now anyone who knows anything about making scotch eggs can help me and say "oh, dude, they almost never sell eggs and sausage meat at shoe shops. You should try a butcher shop and you should probably get some more ingredients like salt and bread and..."


Peace,

kowalski

Nice example ;)
Yes my goal is to getting sex. I tried to pick up some girls with FB, but I also asked some girls in real life for going out. It's not that way that I'm only looking online.
As you said, I heard about sex but I don't know the receipt to get it. Also I think something on the date is wrong because I never (only one time) kissed a girl or have more.

But you still haven't answered Stein's question?


Peace,

kowalski

In my opinion, I think at first you must build up trust. After this you can try to get body contact with her like hold hands and after this kissing. Than it would be good to date close to your apartment, so you can go home. But I don't know how I can create this points. I mean online I don't talk about sex and I think this step you must doing offline.

I'm going assume you come across pretty normal conversational and that you look decent, just based off what you said. That's the reason I asked this, as once we've got the act that you might be socially weird out of the way then 90% of sorting this stuff is just nuts and bolts logistics. This is also the most explicitly gaming thing I'm going to have written in a while

So for your idea of the process of getting laid we currently have:

Facebook chatting --> Date ---> Build Up Trust ----> Hand Holding ----> Kissing ----> Going back to yours ---> Sex

So at the moment each one other than Facebook Chatting and Dating are basically road blocks that you have no idea about.

The good news is we can throw out build up trust and hand holding straight away. If a girl is willing to meet up with you all that needs to happen for her to trust you is that you don't act like a weirdo, and you definitely don't need to hold a girls hand first to make out with her.


So let's start with what you're doing already. You're having trouble moving things to a sexual level on these dates. This is probably either because you're not setting this up as something that could potentially lead to sex on facebook in advance, or because you're not leading things in that direction on the date. Most likely it's both.

Can we see an example of what you'd message a girl to set up a date?

Okay, I understand. Thank you.

Often it's a basic conversation. At first I wrote something like I saw you in ... I'm new here. Than I write something about her profile . I can see you are from Mexico for example. After that we have a normal conversation but not to long maybe for a half day - 2 days. Than often I wrote like this. (She was in vacation)

How are you?
In addition, are you coming back this weekend? Because I want to meet you for a drink in the city. For me it would be a pleasure to know you in person and more about you.
Cheers

Paul,
I'm German and live in London. Your problem seems pretty obvious: you don't escalate sexually and therefore you get friendzoned. Its what I did most of my life. But there are good videos and articles out there to help you. Check out the guys from Maennlichkeit Staerken on youtube. I'll also be doing a seminar in London about how to avoid the friendzone, etc. With a few twists I am sure you can make it quite far.

Hello Artigian, vielen Dank ;)
Thank you very much for your advise, I will check this out. But what I can't understand, How can I produce sexual escalation "online" and when this women only see me in frindzone why the don't contact me again after the date. Also , I make them compliments before etc. It's not that way, that it looks like a typically friendship. You think it's better to escalate sexual on first date?
Cheers

Ok, so escalating online is nonsense in my opinion. The only objective when chatting online is to get the girl to go on a date with you. You don't need to compliment her and you don't have to make her feel anything for you. All that happens when you meet. That's when you have your chance to make her feel that you're worth it.

With regards to why they don't contact you again: if they friendzone you, it doesn't mean that they want to be friends with you. It means that they don't think that you're sexually worth pursuing. And that is normally because you fail to escalate. There are lots of tutorials on the internet on how to do all this. Or you can get a mentor for about EUR3000 and they will fix this problem forever.
I learned all this very quickly and have reached a high level of confidence when I go on dates. It is definitely doable.

Yeah, sure. Just spend 3k and all your problems will go away. What a retard. Fuck this guy.


Peace,

kowalski

Hello again, So that means you "must" escalate on the first date? I'm watching some videos on yt, I think some of them are helpful. With the mentor, I don't know, I'm not a fan of this service. In this week I got 4 new contact on FB and will date one of them next week. I hope it will be more successful.
But what I don't understand, is with the friendship. ;) Because as I said a lot of them don't contact again after first date, so the have a opinion after the first date if I'm interested in this women sexual?

Cheers Paul

Erm, no. If you're looking for something where it's just having fun and possibly fucking on the first date it should at least be implicit in how you communicate beforehand.

Like a clear problem with how he's setting these up is exactly that, especially since he's doing this via facebook. There's like zero fun or flirtation to it. From a girl's point of view if someone's inviting you out for a drink saying:

That doesn't communicate "this is going to be luagh, I can be sexual around this dude and it's all good, there's a possiblity we might go back to his and bang". I mean a girl will assume it's a date but it comes across v serious and long termish. Like that could easily be a meet up as friends thing, hell it reads like an invitation for a job interview almost.

But wait, can't he just escalate and get this shit going in a sexual direction when they're out. Eh, maybe, but 2 major problems:

1. Incongruence. She wasn't expecting this to be a meet up have fun have sex kinda situation. So even if she likes you and is attracted to you, it feels kind of weird and inconsistent. For a girl to go home with you on a first date she has to be sure that you're not a weirdo, that you'll be cool about it and all that, and being inconsistent like that sets them back on their heels. It's exactly while guys who do canned game can get good short terms reactions but rarely actually get laid.

2. Logistics. If a girls showing up expecting to meet as friends or as a long term dating peck on the cheek situation she's not expecting to fuck. Which means she might not be in a logistical position to go home and fuck you. Maybe she's got work tomorrow, maybe shes meeting someone else later, hell I know girls who went on dates and it got sexual but didn't fuck because they hadn't shaved their legs. The logistics have work, and the best way to ensure that is for her to at least have the gist of what's up.


Also no. Problems like this are never fixed 100%, they are only mitigated. You're game will never be good enough to have 100% control over how all dates go. Anyone who tells you anything different is trying to sell you something. You want to blow 3000 euros on game, set it aside and use it as funds to go out a few nights a week and work on your game. Way more value in the long run.

Dear Stein,

Thank you very much.

But what is a good text to ask her out with sexual reason?

I don't know how you should write this in a indirect way.

Only idea would be, for example , Hello you like to come tomorrow evening to watch (movie) etc.

In addition, if you ask her out like me and the first date was good in your opinion, what would be your next step?

:puaforum:

Stein, your post has a lot of validity, but it is tailored to an experienced guy. If someone says they have never had a girlfriend or sex, I would not start with the expectation of getting laid on the first date. It took me half a year of dating until I finally had sex on the first date and even now it's far from guaranteed for me.

Obviously we have to come across as fun on the chat. But once she agrees to go on a date, I think it's best to shut down communication via chat and only talk about logistics there.

With regards to paying for mentoring, I would say one thing: whether you pay or not, it doesn't matter, but you do need a mentor. This is exactly what I didn't have when I was young and so I would end in the friendzone on every date I had because I had no clue what to do. And then I read tons of stuff and watched videos and started improving quickly. If you have someone to show you the ropes, things become much easier.

Like there's not too much wrong with that specifically, like you can lead a little more but just asking is fine. You aren't getting laid going to the cinema either. Go to a bar. Just something like "We should grab a drink sometime. What you doing Friday?". Simple like that.

It's not about when specifically ask them, it's all the shit up till then. Like the stuff, you've written so formal and lacking like a feeling of spontaneousness.

I've kind of hesitated on explaining the specifics of the language you should use, because basically, I'd have to break down all the facets of how flirting works and that's a ridiculously long conversation that probably wouldn't be too helpful in practice anyway. Here are some basic ideas to bear in mind though.

• You're setting up the frame of how the conversation goes most of the time. This means whatever vibe you give off, they'll generally give off back. If you're stiff and formal, you've established that it's a stiff formal interaction and they'll behave that way.
  
• Girls are very rarely openly sexual with people they don't know well, way too much stigma and risk attached. So as a culture, we have a proxy, which is flirting. You rib each other back and forth, create inside jokes, say sexual shit with a joking element to it. Hell, I hope I don't have to explain what flirting is.
  
• I really don't want to give specific examples on what to say, because frankly doing that won't work. This shit has to be your own, and it's something you have to work on developing, kind of like learning balance. But the main things to work on is lowering your filter. Quit trying to say anything you think will work and start saying shit you yourself find amusing.

Are you doing this all in English?

Like to get laid on the first date or after?

What I do is this anyway. I'm always going multiple places on the first date. That's like an old PUA idea but I've always done it and it makes sense. You go more places it varies up the experience and you're also both comfortable with going to a bunch of different places, which makes going back to yours easier. If you want to pull back to yours ideally do this not far from your place. Be prepared to stay out late too.

As you're talking on the date set up something that gives a credible reason to go back to yours. Provided she actually likes you anything works, I always use cocktails or weed or we'll talk about a movie and go back to mine to chill and watch it or something like that. This just gives her a plausible, comfortable way to come back to yours without it being a sex thing. Like this is all implicitly understood but the slut-shaming is real.

So if the above doesn't go down for whatever reason you just invite them to yours the next time with the same reason or similar. If you've come across normal and they've had fun on the last one that generally works.

That's the long and short of what I do from a nuts and bolts perspective, and it's always worked well for me

In what way does that contradict what I'm saying. Dating to get laid on the first date and dating with the general goal of getting laid don't look very different at all. Again, congruence. And there aren't different rules for advanced people and beginners, what works works and what doesn't doesn't. No offense, but you admit yourself you don't get laid consistently, so it isn't like what you're doing is working consistently.

It's like saying to a personal trainer "back squats are all well and good for advanced people, but I'm new. I can only squat 55kg and I've got skinny legs". You might, but if you want to get strong and big you should still be doing squats, not a zumba class.

You said on your last post that nothing mattered provided you get them out on a date. How doesnt that fit with "you have to be fun" all of a sudden? And why shut down communication? What's your logic here?

Hello Stein,
Yes I'm very often do it in English sometimes in German. It depends on the women.
Thank your for the advice again, sometime I think that I don't know how to flirt good. :/
I mean I had a lot of dates in the past but never something works, maybe because this women are not so sure what I want and then they don't have a reason to see me again. I want to change it now in the way that you explain maybe I have than more success

I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts but don't want to derail the thread...

Hello guys,
Today one woman I meet 2 weeks ago sent my a message. She don't believe in friendship between men and women. Furthermore for a realtionship I'm to young for her (she's 6 years older) and she would prefer a men with a higher level in career.
Okay, I accept this. But what I can't understand, I told her before we meet how old I'm (and know her age) Also I don't tell her so much about my career, only that I'm working in ... Industry. I also don't like everything about her, but for me she was interesting.
Is it know again the point that it was not clear for her, if I want a friendship or a relationship?

In addition, yes we can include the topic how to Flirt in this thread, because I think also I don't know so good because if I flirt good, something like this shouldn't happen.

Guys, I'll just take myself off this discussion. I genuinely tried to help, but there are other people more qualified to comment on this. I actually need help myself. Nontheless, Paul I hope you can master this problem soon.

Hi Paul,

The reason your having dates but nothing more is because you must look for the signs of what she needs to get intimate, you must maintain your manly status and focus on her, look out for signs where you can get playful and in a scenario where she feels safe, comfortable etc.. This varies massively woman to woman but thats your challenge.

Good Luck

Nope.

I have never looked for signs of what the woman needs to get intimate. That's gay as fuck. And you don't need to have or maintain any manly status. Nor do you need to be focused on her.

We don't deal in dogma here.


Peace,

kowalski

kowalski --- how can you be so cruel? Lorenzofuego is right: a mix of paying attention to the girl while retaining one’s manliness is just what one needs to approach a girl. Lorenzo, pay no attention to Mr. Kowalski -- he must have been having an off day.

I'm thinking about expanding on the whole flirting thing in this conversation since it's something I brought up, but to be honest what I'm talking about is sort of an experience learned skill, something you develop by spending time working on game. It's contextual to the point where examples and instructions are useless. I'm trying to think in terms of providing useful stuff on here right now, and I should be able to write something useful that expands on it, but I'm going to take a while to think about how to unpack it in an applicable way before I write anything.

Also, just in case anyone can't realize it, DuncanButlin has no idea what he's talking about. He doesn't even know what the word approach means in terms of game. If you'd like further evidence just google him and check out his website. It speaks for itself, and is interesting in that internet weirdo rabbit hole kind of way

*finds his full street address on twitter*

Goto Amsterdam, get a hooker so it'll be out of your system. Then raise your fucking standard (not 4/10). Ask a 10 out. It's a numbers game. Over and out blud.