Bro's before Ho's???
 

Most of us have probably been there once or twice or before, a girl comes between you and your buddy, a love triangle develops and friendships become tested. I am not in this situation personally at the moment but in the past I have been and this is a common situation I see among guys unaffiliated with this community.

So guys, whats your train of thought on this one? Bro's before Ho's?? or 'All is fair in love and war'?? No sitting on the fence please...

Bro's before Ho's.. wouldn't even entertain the thought if one of my friends was interested in a girl.

Retro

Well put. Nothing more to add. x

Interesting, gotta say personally I share Jaz's point of view in that women come and go but your closet pals will (should) remain so. My own moral stance on this is don't hit on a friends girl, even if a guy isn't with a girl but has claimed first dibs to have a crack at her I'm not going to stand in his way. This is a belief I vehemently subscribe to. To do otherwise and go behind a buddies back is sly and says alot about a person in that they obviously don't value your friendship as much as you thought.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who subscribes to the train of thought 'All is fair in love and war' and regardless of potential messy situations with friends will plough on and go for the girl if thats what he wants.

In PU I think sometimes you have to be ruthless to get the results you want, is this a step too far?? Are guys who abide by the brotherly code of honour 'bros before ho's' suckers, does this believe serve them well and are they missing out on potential poontang because they possess loyalty that may not be reciprocated by their buddies??

This is correct. Each situation is different, and when a 'love triangle' develops all three parties are never on the same terms with regards to the relationships they have. One of you might be closer to the girl, for example, than the other, which can produce a different dynamic.

However I would never jeopardise a friendship for the sake of a girl, and I would not expect friends of mine to put our friendship at risk for the sake of a girl. As Jaz says, girls come and go, and can largely be replaced. However your friends are people you should value higher than your relationship with any girl, and as such they should come first.

Its happened before that I've been interested in a girl, and a 'friend' has come in and gone with her. In that situation, I made my feelings to the 'friend' clear, and we have not been friends since. Even to this day, I do not consider someone who put our friendship at risk for the sake of some girl worth my own time or effort. Once a dog bites once, and all that.

There are nuances and shades of grey. But broadly, I would apply the principle that you should put friends first, and that friends should put you first.

Word. Lovin it. x

And just as an addendum, and possibly to clear up a slight bit of ambiguity from the earlier part of my post:

Scenario 1: I am involved with a girl or else have made my feelings for a girl known to my friends, but one of my friends also begins to get close to her, I'd expect him to speak to me about it. I'd then have the option to either say 'Cool man, go for it' in which case I have nailed my colours. Or I also have the option to say 'No man, back off please', in which case said friend should respect that decision and find another girl to chase - of which there are many.

Scenario 2: One of my friends likes a girl, is with a girl, or has else made his feelings and intentions clear, but I decide that I also like the girl. I should feel close enough to that friend, and be man enough, to speak to that friend and explain my feelings. If that friend says he doesn't mind if I take a shot, he has made his position clear and cannot then feel harshly done by if I make an approach. However, if that friend tells me to stay clear, I respect this decision, and back off.

As a real life example, one of my friends (J) used to like a girl called Emma. She was pretty, and he'd done well to get her. They fooled around for a while. Things eased off after a few weeks. Another of my friends (D) - a genuinely good feller, and among my best friends in the world - got close to her a few weeks later. D asked J if it was ok to proceed, and J said it was cool. So he did.

After they'd been messing around for a few weeks, J confided in me that he wasn't happy with D. Similarly, D confided in me that he felt slightly harsh towards J. In both cases, my advice was the same. J had the opportunity to tell D not to get too close, and he did not take it. Therefore, Emma became fair game, and J could not complain for the consequences.

Then again, a few weeks ago, another of my friends (J - a different J) kissed a girl that another of my friends (D - a different D. Why are all my friends Js or Ds?) had a thing for. He told me one night, and asked me to keep it to myself, as he did not wish to tell D. Obviously I didn't say anything - its not my place to gossip. But I gave J a very hard time for it that night, and told him I thought he was a shit for doing it.

this is a top post...

gonna reply to it properly 2moro.... :)

Pic.

Quality Archer quote LOL

Excuse me for re-hashing a month old thread. But I have a bit of a scenario on my hands.

So I got new flatmates about 6 months ago. I get on well with them all. One guy I get on with but would only tentatively call a friend because he isn't around that often. He is sort of seeing a girl, they have been together for about a month. They both get very uncomfortable when I use the term boyfriend and girlfriend around them. I think he is fairly into her. I know she is fairly into me.

Last night I was out for a drink with them both, I was doing pretty well for myself. I am new to the game but it seems somehow my inner game has sky rocketed. So all evening I have had this girl eating out of the palm of my hands. She declared her interest in my and her lack of interest in my flatmate. I made my position clear, but kept flirting with her because it was good practice.

My opinion is full on Bro before hoes. It always has been. If this guy wasn't a flatmate, maybe it would be a different story, after all I don't know that guy that well. But at the end of the day I have to live with the guy, and I don't want to have to start locking my bedroom door at night. And I do have to live with myself.

But maybe this sort of thinking is AFC. She deserves to get what she wants. His relationship is a sham - she is using him. So really maybe it is me being selfish, I don't want the trouble, even if it would be better for everyone.

Well I hope this has made you all think. I don't want to give anyone answers. I want to give you more questions.

Hanz, I'm concerned that you've not quite grasped the 'bros before hos' thing here. I think you want to believe it, but I don’t think you actually do believe it.

There's nothing wrong with liking a girl that your friend is into. We can't pick and choose who we like. The crux of the matter emerges when it comes to acting on it.

I’m not convinced at all by this, and actually think it’s a load of rubbish. You chose to flirt with her, for your own benefit. Don't excuse it as representing an opportunity for practice, and don’t abdicate responsibility for your actions. You didn't have to flirt with her. You chose too. Take ownership of that decision, because it was a decision you made.

Later on, your friend says to you ‘You’re a dick for flirting with her’. You respond: ‘I was only practicing’. Is this a reasonable answer? No? Of course it isn’t.

Take responsibility for your actions.

If you value your friendship with this feller, then speak to him about it and tell him what’s happening. He might tell you that he'd rather you backed off her altogether. Then: is it bro's, or is it ho's? And when is a bro a bro? If you value your friendship with this person, then you will respect his wish that you back off, if indeed that's what his wish is.

So, he isn’t a bro? Do you think you have any loyalty to him?

…which was that you have loyalty to your ‘friend’, and wish not to make a move on his woman… But then to continue to flirt with her, and then ask yourself whether it is AFC to believe in ‘bros before hos’? There is more than a dose of uncertainty here in whether you really do stand by the ‘bros before hos’ concept.

Its one or the other – it can’t be both. Which is it? Only you can answer that.

I further think you don’t quite get (or, perhaps, don’t quite believe in) the ‘bros before hos’ thing after having read the following contradiction in your post:

If you don't value your friendship with this person (not all male to male relationships have to be valued, remember), then feel free to act any way you wish. You will have made a decision to accept the consequences in terms of your friendship with this feller, whatever they may turn out to be.

If you do value your friendship with this person, then sit down with him and explain to him how you feel. The value of your friendship comes in telling him that you don’t wish to harm your friendship, and therefore if it is his wish that you back off (and thus no longer flirt with his woman), then you will do.

Worried that this approach might mean you’ve got to back off from a woman you like? That’s the risk you take, and the variable in whether you take it or not depends on how much you value your friendship with your flatmate.

I sense that flirting openly with this girl, in front of him, has already made it pretty clear where you are in relation to the ‘bros before hos’ thing: in this case, the ho is coming first. There’s nothing wrong with that – its your decision. And maybe he isn’t a bro in the first place.

If you do value your friendship with him, however, then you haven’t done a great deal to demonstrate it.

You definitely left me with more questions than answers!

What a detailed and well thought through response - I wasn't expecting anything so in-depth. Thanks for your effort. You make some excellent points which have really caused me to re-evaluate myself.

I feel I should remind you that there is two types of flirting: Flirting with intent and flirting without. Ever since this guy first kissed this girl - as far as I was concerned she was off the cards. Ever since then I have only flirted without intend. I flirt with all my female friends who have boyfriends that are bros: it is harmless fun. (but then I may need to reconsider this if I am learning to flirt more effectively)

It stopped becoming harmless when I discovered she was flirting with intent. I could have backed off faster when I discovered this, I didn't, and I feel a bit shit about that. (Well I did: I don't feel so bad right at the moment - I am more pissed off at both of them).

With regards as to weather he is a bro or not: The case is: not. He is not a bro. If he was a bro I would be comfortable talking to him about his relationship: I am not. But that doesn't make him a no-one who I can screw over either. He is a nice guy and I get on with him. We could probably become bros if we got to know each other better, but we are not there yet.

So basically in summary: I could have fucked his "girlfriend" and I didn't because I am a nice guy: case closed! (And fuck them both for putting me in this awkward situation)

it seems as it stands youve made the right choice


i was a little concerned initially, but what Covert said was pretty much spot-on, and your re-evaluation looks solid!

So good experience, and decision. And of course valuable information for the forum!

Cheers.

Pic.

Of course, Bro's before ho's. It's easy to say and easy to agree with on an intellectual level...

However, most pua's start "gaming" any hot girl they see right away, even if she's with a friend of theirs. It's like a sick habit. I've done that shit myself in the past. It just stems from needyness... and from one's ever expanding ego. And maybe, it's just a force of habit, lol.

We just have to control ourselves and get our priorities straight. Women ain't worth all that.

I always put my close friends before anyone (sometimes even myself) they are always there for me when I need them as I am for them. I would never let a girl disrupt my friendship as someone said on here girls will come and go but your friends will be there for you through thick and thin and it isn't worth jeopardizing that for nothing. Well in my opinion anyway.