Masculinity, confidence and becoming a man

[Simply David]

Well hello guys…. hi…. looking good…… hey… x

(A bit of play to start but this is going to be a long post so bear with me as I try to articulate what I’m trying to say)

Recently I’ve been thinking a lot about masculinity, what being a man means to me. Maybe its because I’m going through a career change or maybe it’s because I’m 27 staring at 28 and for some reason I feel conscious that I really cant be as immature as I like to be… damn!!

This Friday, I went to Exeter to see my good buddy’s passing out ceremony from the marines. It was something he wanted to do since he was a lad and had put it off as you do, partly due to self doubt, partly due to change in priorities/life situation etc.. but he decided it was what he wanted so he got into training last year gave in his application form and 36 weeks of training later, he’d done it.

Visiting the commando training centre was an experience, it was fucking awesome, this place is like a factory for turning boys into men. Walking around the complex, you see boys in tee shirts being marched in the rain for hours, running around assault courses with 100 pound sacks on, being pushed physically and mentally by their instructors and generally being shouted at a lot.

The final part of the ceremony was a speech by the big cheese (im fucked if I can remember his title, he was a big fucker with a sword…) He was talking about their training and how they are well prepared for what they are going to have to do when they’re dispatched. He also discussed the values they should now have; courage, unity, determination, adaptability, unselfishness, humility, cheerfulness in the face of hardships, professional standards, fortitude, humour. (It’s a lot to live up to.)

But the bit that stuck in my head was him saying to the families, your sons came in here as boys – today they are leaving as men. And it was true, you could see it in them, the sense of achievement, they had something that could never be taken from them. They were proud, but not arrogant.

The other thing that has got me thinking about masculinity is the girl I’m currently seeing. I really dig her, she’s cool. Shes a couple of years older than me, has her own business, has the sexy body any good eastern european chick should and is one head strong woman. I’ve learnt a lot about myself the last 3 weeks being with her, going out, doing fun stuff, talking crap..**I was round at hers last night talking and mid conversation she says,

Her: I’m having a cup of tea, do you prefer tea or coffee.

Me: I prefer tea.

We chit chat for a bit and she notices I’ve not drank any of my tea.

Her: Don’t you like tea?

Me: I love tea, but I didn’t want tea now, you just gave it me…

We we’re laughing around on the floor for about half an hour…

She’s an extremely confident/forward person and has achieved a lot. Then she said to me that she wonders if I’m more confident than her because I stand up to her and she likes it. This threw me a bit, because I don’t think of myself of a confident person, but then again I don’t see myself as not confident, if there is something I want to do or achieve I will go for it, and I love taking risks. But at the same time I think I have repressed parts of myself and hold back a lot because it can be intense when I assert myself, I’m not that good at controlling myself when I do. (It’s fucking weird)

So anyway, I’ve been thinking all this stuff and then been like WTF, why am I like this. Everyone is different and my life experiences will be different to yours. But then I’m thinking philosophically about it, maybe we repress parts of our masculinity as a mechanism of dealing with living in a capitalist consumerist economy, where we buy buy buy crap because we’re conscious of our image and what we posses and not what characteristics we embody.

Or shall I point the finger at the matriarchal world we live in, Hollywood bullshit, celebrity culture nonsense, but then that’s because it sells.

Are we redressing masculinity, is this part of pu. Are we redressing the imbalance in the sex wars. (Duncan would be proud…)

How has your concept of your masculinity changed or has it? And for you guys who have passed 28, is it an age thing?

Hope this has been relevant to you and not just incoherent ramblings. I would love to hear what your masculinity means to you and what you want it to mean.

[Retro]

I don't think it is an age thing mate.. I've got a couple of years on you but i defiantly don't think i was mature until very recent, i could act like a petulant child at times when things were not going my way, but now, i don't tend to raise to a challenge, just appreciate that people's views are different to my own and deal with it in a very level headed manor.

I still fail to step up to the plate on occasion, if its not night game then i have a real barrier with it (even social circle game.. i want to ask a girl out at the moment and letting myself down), so i don't think I'm the full masculine, dominant alpha male yet, so i disappoint and let myself down. Once i can full embrace who i am and thrust that on the world then i would say i'm there...

so yes, not an age thing.

[Tom]

Some nice questions posed Mr D.

As to the cause of the repression of masculine traits, I think that might be hard to pin down to one cause.
Although the most important thing is we have sought to address a problem in our lives, getting desirable women, have taken action and now along the way we have discovered much more than we expected and have fundamentally changed for the better.

I think things like Masculinity used to conjure up images of aggressive, repressive, macho type stereotypes but now I think it's linked with honesty, taking right action and standing by your principles.
Although this then can lead to heated debate, (just take some of the topics on this forum) but I'm trying to take a less emotional way of debating like in a recent post from Covert Ops (which I would have gone mental at if directed at me) and from the example set by you Dave.

Another thing is that don't take this the wrong way but your mrs sounds as though some of her characteristics (eg being head strong) could be seen as masculine but is it? Is it just being sure of yourself because you have experienced and learnt things that strengthen your character?

As for the age thing I don't think that's true but then again we don't get many 40+ guys here, apart from kowalski

[Simply David]

Thanks Retro, Tom.

I want to reply to your posts properly but am posting off my mobile (internet is down - doh!!)

Come on K, tell us what Sartre would say about masculinity. x

[Darood]

This is weirdly timed; I was actually having a discussion with a girl at work about the masculine archetypes portrayed in films. Like for example the commonalities between films like The Matrix, Star Wars, Count of Monte Cristo, Harry Potter, and Stardust even the Lion King.

You see a young male facing difficulty and hardship. Eventually he meets a mentor or mentors who teach him new skills and a new way of seeing things.

Eventually though courage and overcoming his fears and using the wisdom taught to him. He’s able to ascend to Kingship where he often in the process gets the girl.

I fully believe this is what can be found in the community.

We have people starting off with AA often coming out of serious relationships, through reading of pua gurus and methods and help from buddies your able to perceive things differently. The more you’re out in the field training in way the more you change.

Through your actions and values you ascend, you become the King of your Kingdom of all your reality.

P.s this post made me want to reread Iron John book about Men
Iron John: A Book About Men: Amazon.co.uk: Robert Bly: Books

Its terrific book about the masculine journey.

[Tom]

Can I be the girl you get then K?

[Skills]

This post makes me incredibly jealous. I intended to join the Royal Marines when I was 18, I completed 30 weeks of training before gaining a back injury which forced me to leave, all forces do not accept anyone with a back injury in their history - even if said injury poses no more problems.

Good luck to your friend when he is deployed.

[Simply David]

Roody!!! Roody!!! I want to be Symba and roam around the plains and water holes. x*

@ Retro, thanks for your reply buddy, but don’t be so hard on yourself, you know what you’re doing wrong, that’s half the battle won. And personally, I’ve got no inclination of becoming what people call an “alpha male”. I could discuss this more but essentially I want my masculinity to be centred around positive character traits and a general feel of comfort with myself and not centred around dominating people. Make of that what you will chaps.*

@ Tom, you are too kind sir. But I'd say she's just thick skinned. When I look at her I see a vulnerable 12yr, she's cute.

You’re right, a lot of us got into this to take right action, which is spot on.*After thinking a bit more, I think a lot people put their masculinity on the line with the pressure of gaming - I have to approach this girl and get an outcome or else I’m not an alpha male. Really, is that right? It’s like what Jaz was saying in his post about being indifferent, we’re all awesome so just be awesome.*

@ Kowalski, that’s great news!!! Good luck mate, I’m certain you’ll dazzle them.*

I read that post and it was interesting. I suppose I’m coming at it from a different angel, man the hunter vs man the social animal. The most successful business men I’ve ever met in my line of work (counting beans) aren’t necessarily the most dominant, but they’re were bang on the money with their social skills, being inspirers and uniters as well as leaders. The most dominant clients I’ve dealt with in fact tend to self destruct, alienating themselves from people, losing rapport and the emotional support we need. (Yes I am a big gay tree hugger.) x*

@ Skills, mate you did 30 wks training, you know you would have made it. x

[Retro]

Originally Posted by Simply David

@ Retro, thanks for your reply buddy, but don’t be so hard on yourself, you know what you’re doing wrong, that’s half the battle won. And personally, I’ve got no inclination of becoming what people call an “alpha male”. I could discuss this more but essentially I want my masculinity to be centred around positive character traits and a general feel of comfort with myself and not centred around dominating people. Make of that what you will chaps.*

Cheers mate.. i am nothing but honest, some times brutally, and my main problem is i am a bit of a perfectionist.. and i do need to let do a bit and allow myself to make mistakes. Again, i think that is also part of becoming a man.

Retro

[Skills]

Originally Posted by Simply David

@ Skills, mate you did 30 wks training, you know you would have made it. x

Yeah, I know I would of, I didn't see one person quit after 15 weeks; it was just injuries that forced people out.

It was something that, just like your friend, I really wanted to do, if he had been stopped at the last hurdle he would have been devastated I'm sure.