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Default Jiu-Jitsu/Grappling - 03-07-2014, 11:12 PM

Been thinking about training recently.

I'm a stand up fella, love boxing and muay thai. I've always hated grappling. In the "real world" would anyone consider BJJ or wrestling super effective? Taking someone to the ground always seem a very risky move in my eyes. Don't get me wrong, if someone took me to the ground in a gym I would be fucking putty in their hands. I just don't see it happening like that in the street.

BJJ guys always seem smug as fuck too.
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Default 04-07-2014, 03:49 AM

Grappling is gay as fuck.

If it's not toe to toe fist to face or foot to face shit. It's gay.


You can't win if you don't play
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Default 04-07-2014, 06:57 AM

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Originally Posted by dan300 View Post
Grappling is gay as fuck.

If it's not toe to toe fist to face or foot to face shit. It's gay.
Try telling that to a heap of well built MMA guys who pulverise you into the ground whilst you sit there unable to move as they break your arm.

There's some guys here I know well into, I wouldn't fuck with them.
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Default 04-07-2014, 10:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
Been thinking about training recently.

I'm a stand up fella, love boxing and muay thai. I've always hated grappling. In the "real world" would anyone consider BJJ or wrestling super effective?
Depends what you mean by super effective. By 'real world' I'll assume you mean the street.

If someone just trained sport jiujitsu and tried to use it in a street situation I'd expect them to get smashed.

Going to the ground in the street is one of the most dangerous things you can do, in my opinion. Especially if your retarded enough to pull guard or something like that. Anytime your back is against the pavement you're in a very vulnerable position. If someone your fighting has mates around you'll just get your face stamped on if you didn't already knock yourself out jumping to the ground. Also just because you know an armbar or a heel hook doesn't mean you can incapacitate someone.

If someone's coked off their tits chances are trying to armbar them will just infuriate them more. Jiujitsu guys also forget that in the street people can bite, pinch and grab your bollocks. There's no better triangle choke escape than grabbing a guy by his balls.

This being said however, most of the street fights I have seen have gone to the floor one way or another, be it from being dragged there, or someone falls over or they get dropped by a punch and the guy then mounts them. In all these circumstances knowing just a little bit of jiujitsu would have helped them. Whether its just understanding the mechanics of getting their body off the floor or the best defensive position they can put themselves in. Knowing a basic mount escape would have saved loads of people taking more punishment when someone is on top of them dropping bombs.

From my own personal experience knowing how to choke someone out has saved me from getting in a fist fight on a couple of occasions. One guy a couple years ago got in my face and said he was going to 'knock me out', straight away I arm dragged him, stepped around to his back and standing rear naked choked him. He dropped to the ground like a sack of shit, his mates and his bird thought he was dead. When he came round he didn't know what had happened, he had a dumb, confused look on his face and promptly fucked off.

Grappling isn't for everyone, but it is a viable and effective form of the Martial Arts. To think otherwise is ignorant and retarded. Even if its something you don't like I'd at least try and understand the rudiments of it, even if its from a defensive point of view such as getting back on your feet as soon as possible if you got taken down.

The way I see it is it's all Martial Arts and knowing it is better than not knowing it, even if its not something you choose to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
BJJ guys always seem smug as fuck too.
I've noticed this too and I consider myself a BJJ guy. I think a lot of guys that come to BJJ having no prior Martial Arts experience feel like they've been shown some magic red pill with BJJ. When a 60kg guy can train for a year, get a blue belt and can armbar a 90kg white belt they get a weird sense of false confidence. They seem to feel that because of this they are suddenly 10 men in the nightclub. What they forget is that when they arm-barred said white belt it was on the nice soft mats, wearing a gi and the white belt wasn't a pissed up coke head throwing hay-makers from all angles.

I've been guilty of having this mindset in the past, I'm just grateful now that it didn't get me in any trouble at the time. It's a very dangerous attitude to have and a lot of BJJ guys will have a very rude awakening one day.

It also fucks me off how elitist some BJJ guys can be towards other Martial Arts, especially the traditional ones. That being said I've met loads of Thai guys and boxers who have had a similar attitude towards grapplers so it works both ways.
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Default 04-07-2014, 02:17 PM

I'm not actually calling big guys gay. It's just the concept of rolling around the floor straddling each other makes me cringe.

Beating the face off each other though.....rawr


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Default 04-07-2014, 02:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenom View Post
Depends what you mean by super effective. By 'real world' I'll assume you mean the street.

If someone just trained sport jiujitsu and tried to use it in a street situation I'd expect them to get smashed.

Going to the ground in the street is one of the most dangerous things you can do, in my opinion. Especially if your retarded enough to pull guard or something like that. Anytime your back is against the pavement you're in a very vulnerable position. If someone your fighting has mates around you'll just get your face stamped on if you didn't already knock yourself out jumping to the ground. Also just because you know an armbar or a heel hook doesn't mean you can incapacitate someone.

If someone's coked off their tits chances are trying to armbar them will just infuriate them more. Jiujitsu guys also forget that in the street people can bite, pinch and grab your bollocks. There's no better triangle choke escape than grabbing a guy by his balls.

This being said however, most of the street fights I have seen have gone to the floor one way or another, be it from being dragged there, or someone falls over or they get dropped by a punch and the guy then mounts them. In all these circumstances knowing just a little bit of jiujitsu would have helped them. Whether its just understanding the mechanics of getting their body off the floor or the best defensive position they can put themselves in. Knowing a basic mount escape would have saved loads of people taking more punishment when someone is on top of them dropping bombs.

From my own personal experience knowing how to choke someone out has saved me from getting in a fist fight on a couple of occasions. One guy a couple years ago got in my face and said he was going to 'knock me out', straight away I arm dragged him, stepped around to his back and standing rear naked choked him. He dropped to the ground like a sack of shit, his mates and his bird thought he was dead. When he came round he didn't know what had happened, he had a dumb, confused look on his face and promptly fucked off.

Grappling isn't for everyone, but it is a viable and effective form of the Martial Arts. To think otherwise is ignorant and retarded. Even if its something you don't like I'd at least try and understand the rudiments of it, even if its from a defensive point of view such as getting back on your feet as soon as possible if you got taken down.

The way I see it is it's all Martial Arts and knowing it is better than not knowing it, even if its not something you choose to use.



I've noticed this too and I consider myself a BJJ guy. I think a lot of guys that come to BJJ having no prior Martial Arts experience feel like they've been shown some magic red pill with BJJ. When a 60kg guy can train for a year, get a blue belt and can armbar a 90kg white belt they get a weird sense of false confidence. They seem to feel that because of this they are suddenly 10 men in the nightclub. What they forget is that when they arm-barred said white belt it was on the nice soft mats, wearing a gi and the white belt wasn't a pissed up coke head throwing hay-makers from all angles.

I've been guilty of having this mindset in the past, I'm just grateful now that it didn't get me in any trouble at the time. It's a very dangerous attitude to have and a lot of BJJ guys will have a very rude awakening one day.

It also fucks me off how elitist some BJJ guys can be towards other Martial Arts, especially the traditional ones. That being said I've met loads of Thai guys and boxers who have had a similar attitude towards grapplers so it works both ways.
Thanks for your reply man!

I guess It would be good for me to attend a beginners course in BJJ, there is a six week one coming up at an MMA place near me. There is no doubt it would be better than being clueless.

Personally, I have done some wrestling as part of the JKD curriculum I study. There are also a set of 12 ground locks, I've always just not felt comfortable doing it. Simply put, I do not enjoy it at all. I have been taught again as part of JKD (which is purely a street combat art) to implement Kinimutai. Which basically means, bite them. Paul vanuk does a series on it -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX1glZtZejs.

Yeah, I know. Fucking nut case.

But going back to "the street". I think when trying to take someone down for a lock or a choke could well end up in yourself being injured on the concrete or even in a venerable position to other attackers. But you are correct, most fights do end on the ground so I will look more into ground training!

I stand corrected on the BJJ comment, now I think about it, the Muay Thai gym I go to, the fighters there are smug cunts too. Think Muay Thai is some sort of unstoppable super art that is totally perfect. I remember getting reprimanded for implementing a side kick in sparring once, it would be "frowned upon" by the judges in the ring. Fucking stupid as you well know, side kicks are devastating.

I guess martial arts just brings that pack mentality out in people, protective of there own little group. That is probably why MMA is best. Then again, the MMA guys are know for being quite cuntish in regards to traditional arts. They don't realize without the "classics" MMA wouldn't even exist.
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Default 04-07-2014, 05:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
Thanks for your reply man!

They don't realize without the "classics" MMA wouldn't even exist.
My sensei was legit. He always said "We do not train to be merciful here. Mercy is for the weak. Here, in the streets, in competition: A man confronts you, he is the enemy. An enemy deserves no mercy". Good trainer.


Know Thyself.

Have fun.
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Default 04-07-2014, 05:31 PM

And "Strike first. Strike hard. No mercy!"


Know Thyself.

Have fun.
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Default 04-07-2014, 06:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
I guess It would be good for me to attend a beginners course in BJJ, there is a six week one coming up at an MMA place near me. There is no doubt it would be better than being clueless.
Certainly can't hurt. So long as it's taught by a legit instructor and the price is right, why not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
But going back to "the street". I think when trying to take someone down for a lock or a choke could well end up in yourself being injured on the concrete or even in a venerable position to other attackers. But you are correct, most fights do end on the ground so I will look more into ground training!
If it's a street fight, literally anything can happen, I agree that you could get hurt trying to choke or joint lock someone but equally you could hurt yourself just as bad with an ill timed punch or kick. I think having the awareness and knowledge of what to do and where to be "if" a fight should hit the ground is well worth it even if you never intend it to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
Then again, the MMA guys are know for being quite cuntish in regards to traditional arts. They don't realize without the "classics" MMA wouldn't even exist.
Exactly. I've been guilty of slagging off some traditional Martial Arts before.

Perhaps some of them aren't so applicable now but at one time they were and were probably really innovative at the time and as you rightly point out without them we probably wouldn't have MMA today so they deserve some respect in my eyes.
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Default I bjj... - 05-07-2014, 07:38 PM

I'm also a brown belt in Judo. If you want to take up a tough sport then it's great. It's tough. And it will defo get your lungs burning.

I'm not going to do the "Will it make you 'ard" sales pitch but a fact about Street fighting. 9 out of 10 street fights end on up on the floor; two guys grabbing hold of each other throwing haymakers will eventually mean that one (or both) will end up on the floor. Your boxing / muay thai won't be much there. Mind you, BJJ won't stop his mates tap dancing all over your head when you're rolling around like a couple of gay lords.

Saying that, this is the best sum up of BJJ usefulness in a real fight. Ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8q6vTijil0

(Good old Simpsons)

If you want to get fit BJJ will get there. Plus there's always one prick that want's to flatten you out so it will toughen you up. I can vouch for it. Because I'm not fat. And I can walk upstairs without losing my breath. Nuff said.

If you want self defence. Join a running club. Can't hurt you if they can't catch you. Also, checkout some of Geoff Thompson's earlier work... pretty relevant here.

p.s. still here!
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