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(#21)
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Default 16-03-2020, 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
couldn't tell you, but you get an awful lot of incels with incel talking points popping up on your videos. You even had Keno (assuming it wasn't just a sock account, probly was) rushing to your defence earlier with an eliot rodger profile pic. You attract an awful lot of incel attention for someone who doesn't associate with incels
It's quite simple, some incels linked one of my videos on one of they're forums as an example of an "ugly guy" trying to meet women. I am in incel in the sense that if I hadn't resorted to prostitutes, I would be a virgin to this day.



Quote:
I can. Because people have and still do complain about that.
But there is no value for those private companies to capture and store pictures of everyone who walks past they're cameras and yet CCTV still hasn't been made illegal, has it?
End of the day, I'm wearing a camera on my chest, they can question it and walk off if they so wish.
There really are no huge moral or ethical concerns. You're attitude in regards to this is quite strange really. It's not like I'm secretly filming my "lays" like a lot of mainstream pickup artists have done.
[quote]

Quote:
Actually no. The majority of my posting on here is giving advice. I just have no financial stake in it. Makes me inactive, but also impartial.

I've told you what the help you need is. As have other experienced people on here. You just don't like what it is, because it contradicts your preconceptions.
I have no preconceptions. I had never spoken to women before the age of 28 and 1/4, when I started daygaming. I had to push myself for every approach. I had to push myself so so hard. I hated every session, but still I FORCED myself to go and approach.

So does everyone need therapy before interacting with women!? Why me?

Quote:
Consent.
Not required when out and about in a public space. You act as though I am a rapist just for filming myself talking to women, you really are a deranged individual, you just express your derangement more subtly than I do.


Quote:
I was speaking generally about toxic behaviour in the community. But you don't care about these people. Or you'd be able to empathise with why they might not want their faces on your PUA channel.
There are loads of women with they're faces on PUA channels, channels that actually make money. This channel is about MY journey, it's not exploitative in the slightest.

Quote:
The everyday sexism project is a site that deals with street harassment. I wouldn't have to paint anything, just share the vid. Not that I'd necessarily jump to there, just an example that popped in my head.
Show them ANY day game vid and they will call it harassment. Share it if you want, it will just prove that men are under attack for being men. I am never rude nor harassy to any of the women in my videos. But because it's a man talking to women during the day they will deem it harassment.


Quote:
Ethics is actually a very important part of the game. It's widely ignored, and that's the reason that a lot of people either get nowhere or end up unhappy despite getting what they thought they wanted. Good intentions create good game, and a happy life to boot, and the golden rules for that are respect consent and do no harm.
You definitely promote a mixed message for being on a pickup forum. You don't need consent to video someone in public. We keep going round in circles. Maybe write a post in the general forum about you're principles and how they apply to everyday pickup?

Quote:
See, despite the protesting you know that what you're doing is unethical - that's why you'd be uncomfortable with it being publicly associated with your actual identity. But you just don't care because you're desperate. You also have a lot of warped ideas about one night stands or seducing women being immoral which you've talked about before. Your morals are out of whack and you're ignoring it like you ignored the initial advice you got.
I'm not ignoring anything I simply can't understand or process you're objections. They don't make any sense whatsoever. I don't think seducing women for casual sex is immoral myself, they know "what's up" so to speak, but feminism paints it that way. And if we are talking about morals and ethics, surely that's worse than just filming yourself talking to one.

Quote:
Ignoring the fact won't help you through. The cognitive dissonance comes through in every interaction because despite trying to act like you don't deep down you don't feel like you have good intentions. It'll fuck your game up, and if you could ever get your game past that without fully correcting it, it'll fuck your life up too. Trust me.
What you are saying is too vague. I don't understand it. My aims are simple. I just want a fit young girl to call my girlfriend. Game promises that. I don't understand all this. What is this. Why can't I even get laid from talking to women. Why do others have it so easy? How could anything I'm doing fuck my life up? This is all so vague and weird. That's one of the reasons I filmed my infields, to cut through the vagueness and actually show the reality.

Quote:
It's like a personal trainer with years on experience insisting you do exercises to stabilise your rotator cuffs on knee ligaments. You don't see the point or benefit when you're new, but it will improve the important lifts and stop you from snapping your shit in the long run.

So choose to ignore it if you like. But reality won't share your cognitive dissonance, and neither will I. Might share your videos though, so hey.
If you share my videos you might actually indirectly (and much to your chagrin) help me. But you'll probably post them to "feminists central" or some such place who will want me strung up for talking to women during the day time.

Last edited by femaleappraocher; 16-03-2020 at 10:28 PM.
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(#22)
Old
Stein's Avatar
MASTER PUA
 
Default 16-03-2020, 10:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by femaleappraocher View Post
You definitely promote a missed message for being on a pickup forum. You don't need consent to video someone in public. We keep going round in circles. Maybe write a post in the general forum about you're principles and how they apply to everyday pickup?
It's not an issue of if you "need" it. You seem to get super confused between things being legal and things being ethical. Illegal things aren't necessarily unethical and there are plenty of perfectly legal things you can do that are also extremely unethical.

I could see how the practical use of ethics in pickup is confusing, it might also be useful to other people if I did a big post on it. I've got a decent bit of free time what with the world ending so maybe I'll get round to it.

You're still banned btw.


Y'all think it's bougie, I'm like, it's fine
But I'm tryin' to give you a million dollars worth of game for $9.99
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dan300 (19-03-2020)
(#23)
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HaveACuppaTea's Avatar
Member
 
Default 17-03-2020, 01:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
See above. Good ethics creates good game. It's possible to have learned to be good at talking to women ethically and without being sexist. Shock.

And yes, they do. My girlfriend knows too.
No one said you couldn't. I don't believe you. I'm sure the feminists would love reading your journal entries and your examples of being "non sexist" whilst simultaneously treating them as objects. You're a hypocrite.
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femaleappraocher (17-03-2020)
(#24)
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Stein's Avatar
MASTER PUA
 
Default 17-03-2020, 08:50 AM

Believe what you want dude, but I haven't kept a journal in over 5 years, and who said anything about treating women like objects? What?

And overall it depends on the feminists, but I don't even see what you find hard to believe about this.


Y'all think it's bougie, I'm like, it's fine
But I'm tryin' to give you a million dollars worth of game for $9.99

Last edited by Stein; 17-03-2020 at 09:11 AM.
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(#25)
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Default 17-03-2020, 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
It's not an issue of if you "need" it. You seem to get super confused between things being legal and things being ethical. Illegal things aren't necessarily unethical and there are plenty of perfectly legal things you can do that are also extremely unethical.

I could see how the practical use of ethics in pickup is confusing, it might also be useful to other people if I did a big post on it. I've got a decent bit of free time what with the world ending so maybe I'll get round to it.

You're still banned btw.
Yeah, maybe you should clarify where you stand on the issue of consent. Is persuading a woman to have sex when she doesn't initially want to also consensual? Because that is a bit part of game and also more morally ambiguous than filming an interaction with someone in a public place.

I think things have been blown waaaaaaaaaay out of proportion with the unstoppable behemoth of feminism nowadays. It's basically disallowing men to play a numbers game, like they used to be able to do since time immemorial. You've got to give it x amount of tries before you succeed, but when everyone sees your persistent efforts as unacceptable harassment, you are breaking major "social laws" and putting yourself in the firing line.

Stein, I urge you to watch this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx7eVeumqWM

What is fundamentally different about what he is doing? Number one, he is horrendously good looking, so women are going to hardly ever be offended by him going up and telling them they are beautiful. But does that give him any more right to approach women during the day than I have?

Number two, he is very good socially, but at one point he would have had to practice in the same way I am practicing and he also used infields to help himself analyse his interactions, some of which he posted, but I think he took them down since that BBC documentary.

As for me still being banned, then how can I still post? I'm the only one bringing life and debate to an otherwise dead forum, and you know that's true
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(#26)
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Stein's Avatar
MASTER PUA
 
Default 17-03-2020, 12:10 PM

This is such a can of worms. This is tiresome, but I guess it's important, so fine. I'll have to talk a bit bookish to be precise, bear with me.

Obviously ethics is a huge topic filled with philsophical navel gazing. Generally the following two things aren't contentious though.

- Do no harm (which also implies minimising any necessary or accidental harm)
- Allow for autonomy (people should be allowed to live and self determine freely, as long as it doesn't cause harm or violate other people's freedoms.

Do no harm is the more straightforward of the two, albeit that what you think isn't harmful might actually be distressing or upsetting to other people for reasons you can't control. This is why to minimise by avoiding causing unnecessary or accidental harm.

Autonomy can be a little harder to understand because we're all subconsciously influenced by things to some degree. And there's where it's important to get to consent. So let's start with the below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by femaleappraocher View Post
Yeah, maybe you should clarify where you stand on the issue of consent. Is persuading a woman to have sex when she doesn't initially want to also consensual? Because that is a bit part of game and also more morally ambiguous than filming an interaction with someone in a public place.
There's greater potential harm involved in persuading someone to have sex, as violating people's sexual autonomy has a huge amount of harm associated with it. That's obvious. Both that and the camera example lack a certain type of consent though.

The general rule of thumb is "informed, specific, affirmative consent". Let's go through what each one of those means.


Informed - The person has full knowledge of what they're consenting to and it's possible consequences. This means that if someone consents to you filming them and you don't tell them what for, it's not really consent because they aren't actually consenting to how you intend on using it.

Specific - They are consenting to the above as described with nothing further (eg. consenting to being filmed means just to being filmed, not to be publicly posted, consenting to sex doesn't imply consent to unprotected sex etc)

Affirmative - Something that (albeit not necessarily always explicitly verbal) indicates that the person is consenting in the positive, rather than just acquiescing, giving in or "not saying no", "not leaving" etc. Some people believe this should always be verbal, but a girl jumping on you and taking your clothes of for example is at least some form of affirmative consent (though the specifics may vary)

Obviously social interactions are complicated, things can be murky and hard to read, but - if you know or suspect that your doing something that could violate the autonomy or risk harm to someone while the above is in doubt, you probably shouldn't do it.

When you check the two examples you gave in that light, you can see the problem with both. In the case of talking someone into sex, you run the risk of the consent not actually being affirmative. In the case of the filming, it's not affirmative, specific or informed. In the sex case, there's a very risk of harm.

In the filming case, it's a violation of autonomy- people's image is their own, and how it's used should be their call. If I took photos of you and put them on r/roastme or on a grindr or something without you ever knowing would that be alright? You could argue that it doesn't matter if you don't find out, but that's pretty morally weak. If you did know, you wouldn't be happy about it, and fundamentally that should be your decision, not mine. This was the whole point of me talking about sharing your videos in places you wouldn't want them. Because that's exactly what you're doing to the people you film.

Quote:
Originally Posted by femaleappraocher View Post
I think things have been blown waaaaaaaaaay out of proportion with the unstoppable behemoth of feminism nowadays. It's basically disallowing men to play a numbers game, like they used to be able to do since time immemorial. You've got to give it x amount of tries before you succeed, but when everyone sees your persistent efforts as unacceptable harassment, you are breaking major "social laws" and putting yourself in the firing line.

Stein, I urge you to watch this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx7eVeumqWM

What is fundamentally different about what he is doing? Number one, he is horrendously good looking, so women are going to hardly ever be offended by him going up and telling them they are beautiful. But does that give him any more right to approach women during the day than I have?
Not all approaching is harassment. It depends on how you do it. There's nothing wrong with talking to people, or with complimenting people. But it should be done in the knowledge that it might make people uncomfortable, and if you are clearly making people feel unsafe or uncomfortable you shouldn't persist with the interaction.

Regardless, filming people without their consent and putting them on a youtube channel without their knowledge isn't cool, for the reasons laid out above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by femaleappraocher View Post
Number two, he is very good socially, but at one point he would have had to practice in the same way I am practicing and he also used infields to help himself analyse his interactions, some of which he posted, but I think he took them down since that BBC documentary.
The idea that you need to film yourself to get good is bullshit tbh. Tons of people got good without filming themselves. I never filmed myself. No one used to tbh. In fact, none of the best people I know did. I only know of one guy who's good wh ever filmed himself and that was for an RSD product, rather than for himself. In fact, when I think about it I can see a fair few reasons why it would do more harm than good for your game.

And why do you think that is? And if you just say "because of how people reacted", how do you think that plays into what I laid out above?

Quote:
Originally Posted by femaleappraocher View Post
As for me still being banned, then how can I still post? I'm the only one bringing life and debate to an otherwise dead forum, and you know that's true
You can post because you keep making sock accounts. The fact I'm engaging with you doesn't justify it, this isn't your call to make either. In fact the only reason I am is in the vain hope you'll see sense. And tbh, I don't see that happening. Maybe someone else will get value from it.


Y'all think it's bougie, I'm like, it's fine
But I'm tryin' to give you a million dollars worth of game for $9.99

Last edited by Stein; 17-03-2020 at 12:34 PM.
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(#27)
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dan300's Avatar
MASTER PUA
 
Default 24-04-2020, 03:29 PM

We haven't had any ground breaking footage in a while


You can't win if you don't play
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(#28)
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Jaz's Avatar
Jaz Jaz is offline
Administrator
 
Default 07-05-2020, 10:10 AM

Wow, that was groundbreaking.

Thanks for the share femaleappraocher!
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(#29)
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Junior Member
 
Default 19-05-2020, 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
Wow, that was groundbreaking.

Thanks for the share femaleappraocher!
Nice to have the appreciation from the owner himself! Now if you would just auth more content so that my supporters on here can see the continuation of my special journey to overcome social anxiety and GET LAID!
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