Holy shit. Full on cringe fuego.

I'll try to actually give constructive advice if possible, but you said that you filmed this 6 months in advance, so I'm going to give you the credit of assuming you might have learned maybe something since then - hopefully at least something.

What do you personally think you're doing right and where do you think you're doing things wrong? Leaving the legal thing aside, why do you think this has provoked a such a negative reaction from the people on here?

Edit: On top of that, how would you describe the reactions you got here, and what do you think caused that?

There is a difference between confidence and delusion. Why would I be jealous of you cycling up to girls like a child (as in, on a bicycle) and mumbling some bullshit, when I can approach girls like a normal person and take them out.

One of the disrespectful things you are doing is the recording. The fact you don't realise it's morally wrong makes it worse.

One would normally experiment with different lines to get started but it all generally comes back to being genuine, i.e. I would never go up to a girl and ask her what she's listening to if I really don't give a fuck about what she's listening to.

I most certainly can take the moral high ground, because I have never once recorded women and/or interactions against their knowledge. Which yes, is morally wrong. You just can't see that.

I wrote a well thought out and concise reply to you Stein, but as I posted it, a message came up saying "Your post will have to be reviewed by a moderator before submitting" and it seems to have since disappeared into a blackhole.

I will have another try at a reply tomorrow if that post doesn't appear by then.

I ride a bicycle to get around, it is fun, cheap and convenient. Not sure what you've got against it. What is it that you do that makes you so normal? And don't say "approach on foot" because there are clips of me doing that as well in my videos.

Is CCTV morally wrong? What about filming crowds in public areas? Why is me as an individual filming morally wrong? Just because I am "weird"?

This is a very strange and unrelatable thing you are describing. Who cares whether I care what a chick is listening to? I really don't follow at all. How else does one experiment with human interaction? No idea what your problem is, seems you are looking for a fight.

I had a camera on my chest. It's reasonable to assume it is recording. What's so scary about being recorded? People are recorded hundreds of times without knowing it. You know you are recorded by a camera in the ATM when you use it? A lot of people don't know that.

You are acting like I am taking advantage or something. "Seduction" is more "morally wrong" than recording a conversation, yet you are fine with the latter,but not the former, for some reason.

It's really weird, your attitude. I have a camera on my chest, I might be recording them, so what? I'm not using a hidden camera, which would still be 100% legal, but I chose not to.

There are also loads of YouTube'ers filming infields, but I don't see you railing against them.

Fuck it, I'll write it out all over again, as I'm pretty sure that post is gone forever.

In terms of what I've learnt, I'd say the following:

• Walking girls, not a good option, rarely worth it and it seems very abrupt and formal to stop them in the street like it's some sort of emergency
• Opening direct is dangerous, you never know how they will react or if they are jailbait, which has happened a few times
• A lot of London techniques aren't suitable for your run of the mill UK town and the London coaches have no idea because they've always approached in London
• Getting directly in front of them is NOT a good idea, contrary to what the "London Daygame Model" teaches. Again, hard to tell exactly how old the chick is beforehand
• The "3 second" approach rule is dangerous and can get you into trouble, for similar reasons to jumping in front of girls and opening direct

Doing right

• Trying my best to keep calm, despite my heart rate skyrocketing in the lead up to the approach
• Keeping the conversation appropriate and avoiding any sexual topics
• Providing an easy "get out" such as saying "you look like your in a rush" so that they can have an easy excuse to leave if they want to

Doing wrong

• Using assertive language (as I've heard to do from reading this forum and watching videos)
• Getting directly in front, this is a London Day game technique, but I don't think it's appropriate for my small town.
  • Forcing myself into complex situations. Again, this is based on pickup advice to "just man up and do it"

i think it's because my social skills are so poor and I find it so hard to relate to females. That seems to provoke a "disgust" response from people. They can't see it from my perspective. I've had basically nothing to do with women for 30 years, then trying the most extreme method of meeting them.

I would say the main reaction is one of confusion. They aren't quite sure why I am talking to them, or what I want. Some of them may be intrigued, but my intentions are unclear to them.

The trouble is, I don't want to get done for sexual harassment so stuff like "kino" and "making the conversation sexual" are completely out of the question.

My favourite quote from this first video of the series is "Why are you strapped to a camera" so much so that I decided to put it into the title

Right, that pretty much covers it, I've saved a copy in case this goes into the "premod" black hole, just after I've clicked "submit".

Right, here we go then.

When I asked you that I meant it in terms of what you actually posted rather than that, so I'm not going to address the stuff that's irrelevant to that.

For most of your post, I'll just say this. Game is game, there aren't really city-specific rules aside from logistics. Even cultural shifts between countries aren't a massive deal. The key thing is having the social acuity to adapt to the specifics of individual situations and people. Given what I've seen of your game though, being non-direct, absolutely nonsexual and giving an easy way for them to disengage and leave is all essential for you right now. No offense but that's where you're at.

So on to things with substance

They'e under no obligation to see it from your perspective, and have no immediate way of doing that anyway. If you want to talk to them, it's your obligation to see it from theirs.

Bear in mind especially if you're doing day game, girls aren't out with the intent of talking to strange guys. They're going about their day. They have their minds on other things. They might have a boyfriend or a guy they already know they're into. Also, being girls they have a very acute awareness that they're vulnerable in public - girls, through experience, have learned to watch out for and avoid potential situations that could involve street harassment, assault, or even just guys awkwardly hitting on them while they try to get on with their day.




So let's take an example from the video. They're all basically the same, but let's pick the girl in the shorts with the headphones as an example as their's more to work with. Imagine you're that girl. You're on your way to get the bus and meet your mates or whatever, and a guy, larger and physically stronger than you, pulls up. Things you notice:

- He's directly in front of you. Why?
- He's on a bicycle. Why?
- He's wearing a camera which, means he's probably filming you without asking. Why?
- He's put his hand up directly in front of you and says stop as if he's a policeman. Why?

You'd probably stop, in case this is something serious. But what at that point would you think was going on? I'd think I was being redirected by volunteer police or something. It's not impossible to get around that as a starting point if you addressed the randomness of it, but then you go:

"Umm...you look quite fun to ummm... talk to"

How are you supposed to react to that? This ties in with a thing Dan was saying about being genuine. Insincerity is sub communicated when talking to people, generally in the form of incongruence.

The approach and the line after make absolutely no sense next to each other. If you genuinely wanted to chat with someone because you genuinely think it'd be fun you wouldn't roll up on them filming them and stop them in their tracks like that. The way you're behaving is congruent in the your context of "I'm going out to gather incel evidence by approaching women, deploying my opener I got off a youtube video and filming it", but makes absolutely fuck all sense for her. This is why people's interactions seem so baffled. It makes no sense.

The opener itself is fine, but there are tons of openers that are fine. The issue is that it makes no sense to say that in that context, and on top of that you have nowhere to even go with that, even though there's a bunch of easy ways to go from there.

Your heart's beating like a fucked clock, so it's a little hard to make out what she says, seems fairly non-descript. There's no flow to how you talk at all, these pregnant nervous pauses, followed by:

"What are you listening to?"

Again, that's not where things would organically go. It sounds like clutching at straws in a vain attempt to keep the conversation going, which comes off weird again, as that's what you saying that after an awkward pause sub communicates. Like Dan said, if you were being genuine and that was something you gave a fuck about it wouldn't have dithered out so awkwardly and you'd probably have a place to take that thread organically. But you didn't so it came off weird.

At this point, if I were this girl, this whole thing would just seem weird and very uncomfortable. You're clearly trying really hard to keep her there with no clear reason at all, aside from the fact you're awkwardly hitting on her. Another hard to make out response, another awkward silence and he excuses herself.



Now...

You can break this down like in the above, mistake by mistake, but that isn't the root of your problem. The key thing throughout that entire interaction is that you're incongruent and you don't have good social acuity. Filming yourself doing day game is a bad way to solve that, it just won't help.

Imagine if tomorrow I put you in a ring to fight an experienced boxer. Then afterwards you and some boxing experts watch it, and they break down everything you did wrong. Does that mean you can hop in the ring in a few days and fight with a different experienced boxer and do alright? Obviously not. Because the next time you're facing a different set of problems, happening in a different way in real-time. You need to work on generalised skills like balance, timing, and distance.

Learning to read and empathise with people in social interactions is the exact same deal. It's a skill you learn, like balance. It's something you need in a generalised sense before you can apply it specifically, and you learn it from experience, not from watching tapes of yourself.

If you won't accept the ethical argument for not filming your interactions bear the above in mind. Also bear in mind that regardless of the law people generally don't like being spontaneously filmed without consent, and it will also make people suspicious of exactly what you're up to and why you're really talking to them. So not only will it not help address the real problem, it'll start all your interactions on a bad foot



You also need to learn to relax, and daygame is too weird of a social situation to be able to do that. You need to learn to socialise with people in general and to handle less intense social interactions. Try going to social events or meetups. There you can meet people in a friendly, low-pressure way and work on your acuity. If you want to do game take it down to the easiest way and baby step your way up. Ask for directions and try to keep a conversation going. Spark up friendly, platonic conversations when you see incidental chances for them out and about. Take the pressure off and learn to practice on just reading people right.

To get more congruent you need to get your mind straight about this situation. You said "seduction" is worse than "filming people". You need to look at your ground assumptions about that, about women and about yourself very seriously, because from what I've seen it's pretty skewed. And if you're involved with incel communities in any way don't be. They have deeply fucked up and distorted views of society, sexuality and especially women, and they have nothing to offer you. They're far, far worse than useless.

Thanks Stein, you've definitely given me a lot to think about, here. Like you say, I am better off trying to spark up normal platonic conversations. I watched a lot of YouTube videos that made me feel pathetic if I wasn't in some way "alpha" and "man to woman", but I've realised that those videos were not helpful now.

I didn't mean the women I was approaching, I meant the users on this forum. I think there was a bit of confusion, there!

I get that females feel vulnerable, which is also why I find the idea of day game to be very creepy and sketchy, the whole way that you have to spot and then "home in" onto your target feels wrong to me, but that is what you physically have to do to make contact with them. I've often raised this concern with coaches and they've told me that it is "all in my head" which has lead to me forcing myself to ignore those signs of "this is creepy, don't do it".

I realise now that the front stop is inappropriate, but I had watched many videos from the London coaches who emphasise the front stop. The reason I was on my bike was because I cycle a lot and often in my semi rural area.

Putting my hand out was simply something I watched in a video, maybe it wasn't appropriate to the situation, I don't know.

As for being bigger and physically stronger, well, I've often been told women like taller guys. And even if they didn't, I can't exactly shrink myself down before I approach them, can I.

I hesitated and stuttered as I delivered my opener, because it felt like a tense situation and I got really nervous. I really felt the pressure since we were face to face and I felt a responsibility to keep the conversation going.

It's true, my earlier videos were tainted by incel ideology and I was feeling somewhat hopeless when I made them so there were some undertones of "proving a point" so to speak. But in general I struggle with how to hold a conversation with a complete stranger I know nothing about whom I only approached because I found them attractive.

Yes, in general, this interaction was a disaster and it was one of my better ones, if you can believe that! But that was the reason that I made these videos, after all, to show people "where I am" so to speak, without having to write my observations up on forums in a lengthy manner.


I get what you are saying, I need to work on general social skills. If I were 18, maybe I would have given it a try that way, but I am 30. My alternative to using the GoPro are camera glasses, which are available cheaply on eBay.

You've got strong objections to filming, but I think it's a really useful tool. It makes the situations I bring to life "real", tangible, rather than just a bunch of text on a screen.

It is true what you say about suspicion. I am approached by a POLICE OFFICER in one of my later videos. He tries to get me to stop filming and suggests speed dating instead. He said he "doesn't want to see me around town again".

I think that concludes my series, tbh.


I need to relax, yeah, day game makes me hella nervous.

I think you've given me a reason to take the pressure off myself and just go down the platonic conversation route. This would severely limit the amount of approach opportunities though. I have watched a lot of daygame "propaganda" videos that tell me that it is "my fault" if I am not getting laid or a girlfriend because I simply haven't put the effort in and gone out and hustled enough. Now, I am seeing, that is a false lie, but I've had to put a lot of work in to find that out.

"social events or meetups."

Long term unemployed, no social circle. Not gonna happen, unfortunately.

I don't think what I've said is skewed at all. Seduction is a form of manipulation. Going up and filming a candid interaction is not. It's pretty clear to me that seduction is more morally questionable.

I've been trying to leave the incel community. But when you've made it to 30 without having sex with anything other than prostitutes, it's tricky to leave because I simply can't relate to "normal" people, at all.

I've been banned from many forums. It is likely I will be banned from this one as well, at some point. Where does that leave me to go for human interaction? The incel community, again.

If nothing else, these videos are proof that I have tried my utmost at the level of social skill that I have available to me. In my circumstances the opportunities to better those skills are nearly non existent. These videos are my legacy at trying to "live a life" so to speak.

Despite us disagreeing, I appreciate your dialogue, Stein. It's a shame that we don't see eye to eye on videos and I am not the only one doing it out on YouTube.

Search YouTube for "daygame infield" and you'll see what I mean. I am just trying to catalog my experiences, not even make profit from it.

If you're getting that feeling you're probably right. So if it feels creepy don't do it. Regardless of what the circumstance is, if you feel like that you'll project it. That doesn't mean there are easier, more organic ways to talk to women though.

In what way does it matter that you're 30. You either have to work on your social skills or you don't regardless. What else exactly are you going to do?

It doesn't surprise me the police spoke to you. I broke down to you with an analogy how learning this really works. It's something you learn intuitively not explicitly. I've met a tom of guys who are really good at game, and I only know of one of those guys who filmed himself, and that was after he got good because he was working for RSD. It's totally unnecessary, and given that it's provoking reactions where the police eventually get involved, how could that possibly be a positive thing for you?

Bullshit. I work for myself and change location every 6 months, and I get social circles just fine by putting legwork in. You want to know where you can put in work outside of cold approaching on a bicycle? Work on building a social circle. By meetups I meant meetup.com. If there isn't a meetup on there, host one. Go to hobby based things. I meet girls at the gym, at crossfit classes, and yoga (naturally). Or any shit that interests you.

Or here's a thought, get a job. I mean that's something you should be doing anyway. If you want a job that'll get you super good at game, go to a nearby town and try to get weekend work as a club promoter. That's a classic for people who want a job that helps with game. Or anywhere tbh, long as it's a start.

Regardless, it's no excuse.

That's because you don't see yourself as having any value to give. Maybe you currently don't but again, that's fixable.

If I talk to a girl, I know 100% beyond any doubt that it's done with really good intentions. Because I've set up my life and myself in a way where I know I bring value to that girl. If we click we'll at the very least have fun, they can meet my friends, we can have a few laughs, good sex, have fun dating and hanging out with each other, and if not, no big deal. It's all positive. But, sorry to be harsh, but that's because I have a life that I can make her a part of.

Like suppose for a second you get one of these girls numbers and she wants to date you. What then? What do you do? Take her back to your bedroom and play video games? What can you offer her aside from that?

Like Kowalski said, you need to get a life first. You need to be of value, with your own interests, your own shit going on, your own values and boundaries. That will be the most major fix you'll have. One of the reasons you're coming off so nervous and incongruent is because you don't have that. As if you desperately need to take something from the girl instead of trying to relate to them as a fully formed, fleshed out person

All being around incels will do is distance you further from other people. It's easy masochistic catharsis maybe, but all they have to their credit is depression, suicide and mass shootings. Aside from maybe Nazis, you couldn't be part of a more cancerous community. Cut it out.

If you can take our advice to heart, and start to sincerely work on your yourself the way we've been saying you'll probably be fine on here. But if you're obstinate and make excuses to stay in the same place you might not.

You can do a lot better than this. You tried for 6 months doing game in really odd say that worked massively against you, and with a lot of ground work missing too. 6 months to a year isn't even that long, especially given your starting point. It's no wonder it didn't work. I'm fully aware that a lot of dorks record themselves doing daygame, all of it is highly sus and very few of them get girls consistently, or they wouldn't bother doing it.

Anyways, you've got advice on an easy way to get started with a better mode of doing this, anything else would be arguing over minutia. If you go about things the right way for long enough, you'll get better. If you don't things will probably just get worse. Up to you.

I've read your post and the major thing that comes up a lot is hobbies. I do have hobbies. But what is the likelyhood of me meeting women through them? Especially of the "young and attractive" variety? I don't mean old age pensioners, obviously!

What are the odds of me meeting a young girl through overclocking my computer? That's a hobby, I am a PC enthusiast.

Or what of the odds of me meeting a young girl whilst I am cycling through the woods, on my own? That's another hobby.

Yeah, I have big problems with projection. I am "in my head" nearly the whole time in life in general.

Well, if nothing else, my videos have shown "where I am" so to speak, or "where I was" as of July 2019 and the particular mindset I had at the time.

Does everyone who has ever had a girlfriend have to work so hard? It seems to defeat the objective if you have to do all these elaborate things just to get a girlfriend, or even a lay. Yet it comes so easily to other people?

I've been to gyms etc, never worked out in terms of women.

I'm working on getting a job, of course, but I have heard of unemployed people with girlfriends, or at least laid. One of the coaches I've watched said "being unemployed is no excuse not to game".

I don't have any value, I am a pure loser in my 30s with nothing to my name. NOTHING! I mean, that is really shameful, surely!?


What counts as a "good intention"? Is wanting to have sex with her, a "good intention"? Surely that is a bad intention? I ask, because I have issues with objectifying women. I don't know why, but it takes me awhile to see past they're body.

I would probably offer her to go for a walk. Isn't that what you are supposed to do, isolate them and try to make things "man to woman"? I've watched many videos saying that is what to do.

I've noted your advice but there is no way to implement it. My situation is as it is and very few people who manage to get laid or female interaction are not leading ideal lives themselves, so the mystery continues.

This is all just excuses. You can figure out shit to do where you can meet people. The point of you getting a job or getting a social life is for 2 reasons:

1. It's a good and enjoyable thing to have in and of itself
2. Like I said before, it will help you learn how to talk to people without being weird. It wasnt to get laid just by getting a job and a social circle. Unemployed people with bad lives can get girls, but they don't have the lack of social skills you do. And by the way, having friends isn't a shit load of work you have to go through, you should want to have that anyway. I mean damn.

I can't believe I actually had to explain that at this point. Either you're dumb, your perspective is warped or you're being deliberately obtuse. It feels like you're deliberately missing my point. Like when I asked you what you would actually do if you met a girl who liked you, the point is that you don't have a life you could even make them a part of. That was obvious from the context. And you respond with "I'd take them for a walk to isolate". First off no. Second, obviously not what was being talked about.

I've told you shit you can do, it's all straightforward, but all you're giving is pivots and excuses. I've been involved in game for 10 years now, and I always try to help people like you as best I can because I remember when I sucked, but most of the time it just ends up frustrating the shit out me. You're situation isn't too different from other people on here, and your could fix it in a year or two if you did the right shit, but guys like you seem to not want to hear about it if it contradicts their preconceived ideas about how life, game and women work. Like part of you would rather make excuses and stay a loser than acknowlegde that you might have got things wrong so far and be able to fix it.

Shit's sad, but if you won't listen to me it's not worth me bothering any more.